posted August 01, 2013 04:10 PM            

This post is just to help you understand the rest of my reading about your ‘attraction pattern’.

There are three houses in the natal chart associated with love relationships. I’ll give you an overview of these houses, and what they mean, before I continue, so that you’ll know what I’m getting at.

From an astrological perspective, the 5th house is the ROMANCE/COURTSHIP period of the relationship, where we fall in love, and observe how special and unique the other person is.

The 7th house is the MARRIAGE/COMMITMENT period of the relationship, where we relate as individuals, exchange appreciation, and make agreements.

And the 8th house is the CONSUMATION/MERGING OF RESCOURCES period of the relationship, where after the being ‘united as one’ officially, we become interdependent on each other through the sharing of ourselves and our stuff.

Here’s a more detailed guide for examining the symbolism of THE THREE RELATIONSHIP HOUSES

THE 5TH HOUSE…
The 5th house cusp and ruler, plus planets in the 5th… Show who is romantically exciting to you, who impresses you, and who is the ‘Apple of our Eye‘. This house is the one in charge of romantic sparks, infatuation, adoration, and the epic saga of your personal love story… it‘s about what makes you fall in love.

THE 7TH HOUSE…
The 7th house cusp and ruler, plus planets in the 7th house… Show who gives you feelings of sweet affection, warmth, established acceptance, and completion… As if they offer you what you ‘need’ in a partner. The 7th house is not always exciting like the 5th house, rather it represents who you LIKE, and want relate to as a partner and friend in your daily existence.

THE 8TH HOUSE…
And last but not least, the 8th house cusp and ruler, plus planets in the 8th… Show who attracts you in an intriguing, magnetic type of way… Here you want to figure the other person out, and merge with them in the most deep, intimate way possible. This house is where we share ourselves, and what we have to offer, with another physically, emotionally, and financially… to the point where our lives are inextricably intertwined.

(Note: for all of these houses also take into account the sign next along after the cusp sign, if a large part of that sign falls into the 5th, 7th or 8th house.)

When someone resembles one of these houses with their natal chart, puts their natal planets in these houses, or aspects the rulers of these houses with their chart, they set off feelings within us in relation to the theme of that house. They bring that house ‘alive’ for us.

If they influence our 5th house the connection is about being impressed, adoration, and playful flirty type interactions. If they influence our 7th house the connection is about being best friends, and really, really liking and feeling affection for each other in day to day life. If they influence our 8th house the connection is about intimacy, and shearing a private psychological, sexual, and financial bond.

And yes, it’s entirely possible for one person to influence all three of these houses with their natal chart one way or another. With planets in houses, aspects to the ruler, or their chart simply resembling the house in question. For example, Jupiter in the 7th house meets partner with Sun conjunct Jupiter.

The more ways a partner connects to these houses the more attractive they will be for us. That's how we use the 5th, 7th and 8th houses.

What about tight (I'm defining "tight" in this example as about 1 degree) synastry aspects to planets WITHIN the 5th, 7th or 8th house? Say someone has a tight Mercury/Venus conjunction in one of those houses within their natal. Someone else comes along and their Mercury makes a tight sextile and their Venus makes a tight square to the other person's Mercury/Venus conjunction. Would that "bring the house alive" as well? Or would it have to be to the RULER of the house? What about something like a inconjunct from someone's ascendant to a house's ruler? I think I recall Ceridwen stating that she's never seen an unaspected 5th house ruler in the case of a strong romantic attraction, but what counts for the aspects? Is it just the major Ptolemaic? Or do more minor aspects count as well? And I'm only considering the really tight ones right now, but what about looser orbs?

posted August 01, 2013 07:42 PM            

You know, interestingly I’ve never given natal planets in the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses that much detailed thought when it comes to our ‘pattern’. For sure when the ruler of a house gets aspected, that house will be activated. But when it comes to planets actually in the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses nataly, although I didn’t explicitly state anything about them, I can only imagine that having them aspected must have some effect. My Jupiter is my Asc ruler, it’s located at zero degrees Cancer in the 7th house. If someone were to aspect my Jupiter they’d be influencing my 1st house, and it also makes sense that they’d be influencing my 7th house as well, because Jupiter in actually IN the 7th house. My guess is the answer is 'yes', they have an effect, although I can’t think of any particular examples off the top of my head.

posted August 01, 2013 08:10 PM            

I wonder if you could clear this up for me?

Example:

Someone has Gemini on the 5th House with Mercury in Sagittarius. Does this indicate that the person desires romance with a Sagittarian and Gemini flavor?

If they had Cancer on the Descendant and then Moon in Taurus, would they desire a partner with strong emphasis on both Taurus and Cancer?

If someone's has two relationship houses ruled by planets that are conjunct, like that Sagittarius Mercury ruling the 5th Gemini and a Sagittarius Sun ruling the 8th Leo conjunct, would they really desire a Sagittarian or would their 5th/8th or secondary 3rd/5th have to be stimulated as well?

I think this isn't derailing but if it is, I'm sorry!

posted August 01, 2013 08:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
I think this isn't derailing but if it is, I'm sorry!

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Hey, you're good! I don't mind since sometimes it helps clarify what I'm learning to try and explain it to someone else. Then Lotis can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me try those examples one at a time.

"Someone has Gemini on the 5th House with Mercury in Sagittarius. Does this indicate that the person desires romance with a Sagittarian and Gemini flavor? "

Flavor is a good way to put it. They might not have planets actually in those specific signs, but could have something that resonates with this such as Mercury or Jupiter conjunct their Sun, Moon or ASC. Or with a 3rd or 9th house emphasis in their chart.

"If they had Cancer on the Descendant and then Moon in Taurus, would they desire a partner with strong emphasis on both Taurus and Cancer?"

This could also be someone who has an emphasis on there 4th and/or 2nd house. Also, if the DES is in late Cancer, early Leo placements could also set off their 7th house assuming that it's a personal planet rather than a generational one. I can use myself as an example here. I only have one planet (Mars) in Cancer, so that might fall in their 6TH house; but my Leo Moon could be actually in their 7th and that would have more of an effect then my Cancer Mars. Also, I've got 3 planets in my 4th house; even though those planets are in Capricorn and Aquarius, the 4th house emphasis in my chart could be a match for someone with a Cancer descendant, especially since I've got a 4th house Sun.

"If someone's has two relationship houses ruled by planets that are conjunct, like that Sagittarius Mercury ruling the 5th Gemini and a Sagittarius Sun ruling the 8th Leo conjunct, would they really desire a Sagittarian or would their 5th/8th or secondary 3rd/5th have to be stimulated as well?"

Once again, the person wouldn't necessarily be a Sagittarian. Someone with a loaded 9th house or Jupiter prominent would also work for this. So if someone has, say, a Scorpio Sun closely conjunct Jupiter, that person could be a potential "match" because Jupiter would strongly "flavor" their Sun.

Actually, that's one of the things that I find so cool about understanding a person's "relationship signatures". Once you grasp the concept, you see that there are ways for one person to stimulate all 3 of the relationship houses and fulfill your personal "inner script" for what would be a person's "ideal" man or woman. AND they DON'T have to stimulate them all the same way! They could make ASPECTS TO your 5th house ruler, put personal planets IN your 8th house and have planets IN THEIR OWN CHART that resonate with your 7th house signature (like my 3 planets in the 4th for the Cancer DES).

Also, I find it reassuring to know that they don't have to actually have planets in those houses. What if their placement puts stress on your planets from those positions? No problem! There's more than one way for them to be a good "match".

Lotis wrote some great stuff on this. I've been doing archive searches using her name to find these threads.

posted August 01, 2013 10:26 PM            

I agree with Lotis threads, I have a lot of them bookmarked because they're so good!

I just wanted to ask because I'm not the best text learner. I actually think this is because my Mercury is in the 2nd House in Gemini. It's almost like having a Taurus Mercury, I really need to relate it to myself to solidify the information. I also learn best by seeing someone perform an action. Definitely a Taurean feel to my learning style!

posted August 01, 2013 10:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
I actually think this is because my Mercury is in the 2nd House in Gemini

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What degree Gemini? You're probably trine either my Sun or Mercury.

posted August 02, 2013 05:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
Once again, the person wouldn't necessarily be a Sagittarian. Someone with a loaded 9th house or Jupiter prominent would also work for this. So if someone has, say, a Scorpio Sun closely conjunct Jupiter, that person could be a potential "match" because Jupiter would strongly "flavor" their Sun.

Actually, that's one of the things that I find so cool about understanding a person's "relationship signatures". Once you grasp the concept, you see that there are ways for one person to stimulate all 3 of the relationship houses and fulfill your personal "inner script" for what would be a person's "ideal" man or woman. AND they DON'T have to stimulate them all the same way! They could make ASPECTS TO your 5th house ruler, put personal planets IN your 8th house and have planets IN THEIR OWN CHART that resonate with your 7th house signature (like my 3 planets in the 4th for the Cancer DES).

Also, I find it reassuring to know that they don't have to actually have planets in those houses. What if their placement puts stress on your planets from those positions? No problem! There's more than one way for them to be a good "match".

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Good job, Jkitty!

I especially loved the part I quoted. I just want to mention that the signs & planets associated the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, are stronger and more dominating then house of the ruler.

I'll give an example, I've got a Gemini Dsc ruled by Mercury in Sagittarius in the 12th house, Jupiter is in my 7th. If I were to do a ranking, Sagittarius would have the strongest pull for me, then Gemini, then a Neptune/Pisces/12th house 'flavor'.

I've noticed that signs and planets associated with the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses have a stronger 'pull', then the house of the cusp-ruler. In my case I’m rarely ever drawn to Pisces (or at least it hasn’t happened yet). But I have noticed that I find a prominent Neptune, or 12th house, in another’s chart appealing (especially Neptune). I tend to go for guys with very fiery charts, with a good dose of Neptune aspects mixed in… I like guys who can be compassionate and sweet, as well as confident and ‘macho’.

I think reverse is true also. If someone had a Cancer Dsc, they’d be very much attracted to a prominent Moon or Cancer planets in others. They’d be drawn to 4th house planets in others too, only the pull would be less intense.

In terms of strength, signs and planets are full colored, whereas houses are more like tinted glass. They have a definite influence on our pattern, but it's more diluted.

Hi MsPrism,

Jkitty was right on. The Gemini 5th house cusp ruled by Mercury in Sagittarius, indicates that this person is impressed, and 'smitten' with flexible, highly intellectual, interesting people. They'll like be attracted to people with the signs Gemini and Sagittarius prominent in their chart, a prominently placed Mercury or Jupiter, or a prominently tenanted 3rd or 9th house (I’d say the signs/planets part provides a stronger pull then the houses, although, the houses STILL have some effect).

And it’s possible for a love interest to have several variations of this 5th house pattern, occurring in different parts of the chart. They could have Sun conjunct Mercury in the 9th house, Moon in Sagittarius, Mars in Gemini actually in the 5th house in question, and Jupiter on the Asc… There are a variety of ways a person could symbolically fulfill the attraction pattern of this Gem/Sag 5th house.

In terms of the actual interplanetary synastry itself, people who strongly aspect Mercury, ruler of the 5th, will be very appealing to this person. Conjunctions are the strongest, most binding aspect. Trines and sextiles provide a fun, exciting flow. And hard aspects create drama and friction, and can sometimes lead to a kind of love/hate type scenario.

posted August 02, 2013 05:51 AM            

I'm going through that other thread now, it's fascinating to say the least.

You both are such treasures in this community, thank you so much!

posted August 02, 2013 08:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:

In terms of strength, signs and planets are full colored, whereas houses are more like tinted glass. They have a definite influence on our pattern, but it's more diluted.

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Lotis,
I want to strongly emphasize this!

For years and years (actually ever since I started astrology) I would pay most attention to the house, seeing it as equal to signs in a way (like the equation Venus= Libra = 7th house), probably because that is how I learned it from a very good astrologer in the first place. lol

Anyway, for the last months or so my stance on this has changed.
While I see a connection there, it is just not a simple equation.
Something resonates, yes, but different than planets or signs.

Maybe this is because the planets and signs relate more to character traits, and the houses have to do with orientation or certain life areas. I am not exactly sure.

And there is still resonance of course, but not as strong.

I am an example for that.

I have Sun in 1st house. 1st house is associated with Aries, so I could interprete that as me being Aries-like.
And I am not.

For me it makes more sense to go a step back and see what the 1st house (as a house means). It is related to the Self, to the beginning
(which is where the association with Aries comes from, as it is the first sign of the zodiac, also relating to a sign being very independent, and beginning anew again and again. True pioneers and adventurers of the zodiac).

The Sun in 1st house indicates that what you see is what you get. My Self and my selfpresentation are practically the same.
however it doesn`t mean that my Self is impulsive, courageous, spontaneous, pioneer-like, adventurous like an Aries.

In my case this Sun is in Sagittarius and conjunct Mercury, disposited by Jupiter in Pisces, and that is what colours the expression of my Self very significantly.

Howevber even though that may sound contradicting, I have noticed that planets on the angles or even in angular houses seem to exhibit a lot of the sign they are associated with, of course in combination with the actual signbackground.

For example my Neptune on ASC gives me a bit of a Pisces or Neptunian vibe.

posted August 02, 2013 08:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
I tend to think projected house rulers work well for attraction, but that they are slightly less powerful then having a natal house ruler aspected in synastry. When projected house rulers are part of a pattern of attraction that shows in various others ways, they are marvelously supportive, and can really kick up the intensity to a connection.

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I agree.

Actually I think in the first throes of an attraction they might be felt very intensely.
But this has to do with the mechanism of "projection" that comes into play when we fall in love or get infatuated.
The question is, does the loved one really have these traits we see in them, or are we just projecting something from inside of us onto him?

If he realy has these traits dominant, this can be wonderful though, and shows a good foundation to the attraction that can blossom into a real relationship between two persons.

If not however, and it is only based on the projected houseruler aspects, I think the attraction would fizzle out before too long. (at least after we take back the projection again).

posted August 02, 2013 08:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
Wow, thank you so much Lotis and Ceridwen!

I'm going through that other thread now, it's fascinating to say the least.

You both are such treasures in this community, thank you so much!

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posted August 02, 2013 11:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
Wow, thank you so much Lotis and Ceridwen!

I'm going through that other thread now, it's fascinating to say the least.

You both are such treasures in this community, thank you so much!

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I whole-heartedly agree!

I'm going to take a look at the link you provided to the "projected house rulers" thread.

posted August 02, 2013 11:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Good job, Jkitty!

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I listen to my teachers!

posted August 02, 2013 11:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
I listen to my teachers!

Thanks for the clarification on planets in the house corresponding to the house of the cusp ruler. From my own chart, I have to agree; I have 3 planets, including my Sun, in the 4th, but I don't relate to the description of Cancer at all. However, my home is my "sanctuary" and I love being at home -- that's about as "Cancer" as I get! My detached, unemotional AQUARIUS Sun wins out.

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posted August 02, 2013 12:33 PM            

We can experience the energy echo of these houses in SIX different ways…

1.) Someone puts planets in our own 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.

2.) Someone aspects the ruler of our 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.

3.) Someone puts planets in our secondary 5th, 7th and 8th houses.
(For example, someone puts planets in my 3rd house, and my Dsc is Gemini. Or someone puts planets in my 1st house, and my 5th house is Aries. Or someone puts planes in my 4th house and my 8th house is Cancer.)

4.) Someone aspects the ruler of our secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.
(As in, they’d aspect the rulers of my 1st, 3rd, and 4th houses)

5.) Someone aspects our chart with our projected 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers in their chart.
(Someone else’s Mars, Mercury, and Moon, strongly aspects my chart)

6.) Someone has the symbolism of my 5th, 7th and 8th houses strong in their own chart. (Like in the example of my Aries 5th house cusp… I might be attracted to someone with a strong Mars aspected in the context of their own chart, maybe they have Mars conjunct Sun.)

(Note: I think secondary houses are a little more diluted then the primary houses. But there’s still a pretty strong echo in them from the original house when secondary houses are touched in synastry. The first time an echo bounces is when it’s the loudest.)

Okay! Now here's my attempt to prioritize them from strongest to weakest:

1: Someone has the symbolism of my 5th, 7th and 8th houses strong in their own chart. (I put this one first based on an article by Dawn Bodrogi on "Relationship Signatures". She implied that someone must appear to be our "type" or we won't really consider them as potential partners and that this is something that we need to consider before we ever check for aspects.)

2.) Someone aspects the ruler of our 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (I put this one second because somewhere Ceri stated she's never seen a case of being deeply "in love" without an aspected 5th house ruler. Also, it would imply a contact to an angle ruler in the case of the 7th.)

3.) Someone puts planets in our own 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (I think I'd make an exception for a luminary conjunct the DES -- I'd put that 1st or 2nd -- because it seems to scream "I'm your type!")

4.) Someone aspects our chart with our projected 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers in their chart. (Here we're still talking about the primaries.)

5.) Someone aspects the ruler of our secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (Echo)

6.) Someone puts planets in our secondary 5th, 7th and 8th houses. (Echo)

What do you think?

posted August 02, 2013 07:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
All right, I've now read the thread on projected rulers. I'm including an excerpt here; I'm going to try and prioritize these from strongest to weakest. Lotis/Ceri, would you please correct me if you disagree?

We can experience the energy echo of these houses in SIX different ways…

1.) Someone puts planets in our own 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.

2.) Someone aspects the ruler of our 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.

3.) Someone puts planets in our secondary 5th, 7th and 8th houses.
(For example, someone puts planets in my 3rd house, and my Dsc is Gemini. Or someone puts planets in my 1st house, and my 5th house is Aries. Or someone puts planes in my 4th house and my 8th house is Cancer.)

4.) Someone aspects the ruler of our secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses.
(As in, they’d aspect the rulers of my 1st, 3rd, and 4th houses)

5.) Someone aspects our chart with our projected 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers in their chart.
(Someone else’s Mars, Mercury, and Moon, strongly aspects my chart)

6.) Someone has the symbolism of my 5th, 7th and 8th houses strong in their own chart. (Like in the example of my Aries 5th house cusp… I might be attracted to someone with a strong Mars aspected in the context of their own chart, maybe they have Mars conjunct Sun.)

(Note: I think secondary houses are a little more diluted then the primary houses. But there’s still a pretty strong echo in them from the original house when secondary houses are touched in synastry. The first time an echo bounces is when it’s the loudest.)

Okay! Now here's my attempt to prioritize them from strongest to weakest:

1: Someone has the symbolism of my 5th, 7th and 8th houses strong in their own chart. (I put this one first based on an article by Dawn Bodrogi on "Relationship Signatures". She implied that someone must appear to be our "type" or we won't really consider them as potential partners and that this is something that we need to consider before we ever check for aspects.)

2.) Someone aspects the ruler of our 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (I put this one second because somewhere Ceri stated she's never seen a case of being deeply "in love" without an aspected 5th house ruler. Also, it would imply a contact to an angle ruler in the case of the 7th.)

3.) Someone puts planets in our own 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (I think I'd make an exception for a luminary conjunct the DES -- I'd put that 1st or 2nd -- because it seems to scream "I'm your type!")

4.) Someone aspects our chart with our projected 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers in their chart. (Here we're still talking about the primaries.)

5.) Someone aspects the ruler of our secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. (Echo)

6.) Someone puts planets in our secondary 5th, 7th and 8th houses. (Echo)

What do you think?

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Hi Jkitty,

I pretty much agree with this ranking, only I'd switch the last two around (5&6) or at least have them rank even. And about secondary houses, I've noticed that the secondary 7th house is the most powerful (probably because it's an angular house), and has the most dramatic pull. If a connection to the primary 7th house is entirely missing, sometimes strong connections to the secondary 7th house make up for this, more so then with the secondary 5th or 8th houses.

Also with number 2, I agree that house ruler synastry is extremely significant, second only to symbolism matches (number 1). Only synastry planets in houses can rank equal, or even above this, when they make significant aspects to the rest of your chart. There's a big difference between someone having their Moon in your 5th house not aspect anything, and them having their Moon in your 5th house conjunct your Mars, or trining your 7th house ruler. This can be POTENT. The tighter the orb the stronger the impact will be.

Synastry planets in houses + Aspects to the rest of your chart = Big pull.

Synastry planets in houses + No aspects to the rest of your chart = Small Pull.

posted August 02, 2013 09:39 PM            

LOL. I kept going back and forth with those two, like half-a-dozen times!

And about secondary houses, I've noticed that the secondary 7th house is the most powerful (probably because it's an angular house), and has the most dramatic pull. If a connection to the primary 7th house is entirely missing, sometimes strong connections to the secondary 7th house make up for this, more so then with the secondary 5th or 8th houses.

Good to know. I think I've already been treating the angular houses as more important, so that makes total sense.

Also with number 2, I agree that house ruler synastry is extremely significant, second only to symbolism matches (number 1). Only synastry planets in houses can rank equal, or even above this, when they make significant aspects to the rest of your chart. There's a big difference between someone having their Moon in your 5th house not aspect anything, and them having their Moon in your 5th house conjunct your Mars, or trining your 7th house ruler. This can be POTENT. The tighter the orb the stronger the impact will be.

Synastry planets in houses + Aspects to the rest of your chart = Big pull.

Synastry planets in houses + No aspects to the rest of your chart = Small Pull.

I just wanted to make that distinction.

Makes sense. Thanks for checking my understanding and clarifying that. Now I feel like I've got a much more solid grasp of this. Muchas gracias!

posted August 03, 2013 05:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:

Synastry planets in houses + Aspects to the rest of your chart = Big pull.

Synastry planets in houses + No aspects to the rest of your chart = Small Pull.

I just wanted to make that distinction.

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That would be exactly the distinction and adding I would have done, too.

Also want to mention, that while the symbolic resonance (same theme in both natals) is NECESSARY, it is also true that it MUST be accompanied by strong synastric aspects, as only these give the energy and drive to form a relationship.
If they are present, the natal resonance will deepen the bond very much and maybe makes it hard to let go of it.