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Author
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Topic: Theory re: 12th House Planets Close to the 1st
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mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 1942
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted August 05, 2013 06:44 AM
  
TL;DR version of the theory:
12th House Planets near the 1st House cusp are innately prominent tendencies that were actively repressed during childhood. When the native is an adult, those tendencies/traits are apparent to third parties, but difficult for the native to actively access.
This may be old news to a few (or already considered and discarded), but I've come here by thinking about my husband's chart.
He has Mars/Venus conj in Aries in the 12th very close to his Asc.
 Some of have said, "That should be interpreted as being in the 1st," but I disagree. They might be conj his Asc, but in a very particular way: Their expression was actively supressed during his childhoood - whether by another or by him. Background:
His father was (really) in a motorcycle gang - the kind that beats, maims, kills, and deals - and he was just an awful person in general.
Addicted to myriad substances, physically and emotionally abusive (my husband's father beat his mother and then later him - a few times to the point of being knocked out), just an all-around bad guy. Shows of tenderness and affection by my husband were actively discouraged (as well as emotion - I think that may show up in his tight Moon/Neptune opp to his Sun, though).
Shows of aggression and toughness were encouraged (though, obviously, never towards his father).
Two things happened, I think, with the latter tendency: My husband (the child) initially pushed back against his (I'd argue innate) assertive tendencies because he saw the pain caused by his father's aggression. This wasn't done in any conscious way, but with the impulse that aggression causes pain ---> own assertiveness/aggression denied. He later then actively pushed against his own aggressive tendencies (consciously - he remembers the choice to do so) once he was a bit older after his dad was out of his life (by about 9). His Mars/Venus are still very close to his Asc - perhaps even conjunct - but are...not muted...but held back by his unconscious self.
But still quite apparent to even casual acquaintances. Both his assertiveness and his sensitively fairly ooze off of him and were some of the first things I noticed about him, though they slip away when he attempts to actively access them. Does that make sense?
IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 7617
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted August 05, 2013 06:56 AM
yes, makes a lot of sense to me.IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 3048
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted August 05, 2013 07:07 AM
I have Jupiter conjunct the ascendant from the twelfth house by less than one degree and no one sees it until they get to know me. It's more about getting to know someone, then finding out something that's a complete surprise. This is has been my experience, anyway. It's not apparent at first, someone gets close, they notice, then they are blown away. They say, "wow you are really smart." A lot of times, they have issues with it.IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 7617
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted August 05, 2013 07:15 AM
I have Mars conjunct ASC from the 12th house, 2 degrees.Yes, I think people are sometimes surprised if my Mars raises his head (usually suddenly swinging a flaming sword in his hand  ).
But curiously others will notice it even BEFORE I really do (though not on first glance; my Neptune on the ASC, but in 1st house, can be misleading ) IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 5274
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted August 05, 2013 07:33 AM
Makes sense!Thank you guys for sharing your experiences. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 7617
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted August 05, 2013 07:38 AM
I wonder if there is some transit triggering 5 Sagittarius right now, I feel a little more un-peaceful than usual. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 3048
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted August 05, 2013 08:44 AM
Neptune's at 4 Pisces :SIP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 7617
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted August 05, 2013 09:07 AM
yes but Neptune numbs and muffles Mars, it doesn`t put fire under his butt.
AT least that has ben my experience so far.It might be though just a reaction to Tr Neptune easing a tiny little bitt of the exact conjunction (though still under one degree), but as we all know he will be back. IP: Logged |
12thhouser
Knowflake Posts: 1416
From:
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted August 05, 2013 06:48 PM
12th house planets close to the 1st can be considered a "blend," a combination of both house interpretattions.IP: Logged |
peachbeigeblue
Knowflake Posts: 3212
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 05, 2013 08:32 PM
I have my chart ruler conjunct my ASC from the 12th by a little under 3 degrees. (Pluto in Scorpio) I think I suppress my plutonian qualities some, or at least am not as comfortable with them. IP: Logged |
eyes_like_pisces
Knowflake Posts: 196
From: mpls, mn, usa
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted August 05, 2013 11:23 PM
I like this interpretation. I never quite thought about it before, except that those conjunction might be expressed in an ascendant way. As a first impression, but not prominate. Or maybe make for a more spiritual individual.I think this makes perfect sense though, when thinking about progressions! Most progressions have at least moved one house further once we hit adulthood. With someone who's Venus/mars in 12...I imagine the further away from the cusp the longer it might take them to find comfort in love. This makes me hopeful for those with this placement  I have Pluto retrograde 7 degrees from my ascendant. I wonder if I'll ever notice it, Haha. IP: Logged |
Jkitty
Knowflake Posts: 729
From: an oasis in the desert
Registered: Mar 2013
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posted August 05, 2013 11:27 PM
That's a really good theory! Thanks for sharing your insight. It makes sense.IP: Logged |
teasel
Knowflake Posts: 5430
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 06, 2013 01:49 AM
I have Uranus conjunct the Ascendant, from the 12th. I'm still not sure what to think about that.IP: Logged |
teasel
Knowflake Posts: 5430
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 06, 2013 01:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
yes but Neptune numbs and muffles Mars, it doesn`t put fire under his butt.
AT least that has ben my experience so far.
I don't know... it was conjunct my Mars over the past two + years... and I've been more disillusioned, and upset. I also have Pluto messing with me, though - in my 3rd house, aspecting my t-square (cardinal, Saturn, Jupiter and Pluto), eclipses, and so on. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 3048
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted August 06, 2013 09:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by teasel:
I have Uranus conjunct the Ascendant, from the 12th. I'm still not sure what to think about that.
I have it too. Actually, this IS the one planet out of the three that shows up like a first house planet. Jupiter doesn't. Maybe Mercury does a little but Uranus is like, the planet that people really see and it's not even the closest to house one. Those outer planets are phenomenal. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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