posted December 06, 2013 06:25 AM            

Unfortunately, there seems to be a variable amount on the subject, and hardly specific.

I'm looking at both, presently. I can easily take general indicators and seek out 12H ties, for example.

So does anyone have any suggestions? Currently, I have:

* 8H / 12H and 8R / 12R ties to Mars, Saturn, Pluto
Atropos, Hades, and Chiron. Also 4H involvement. Close IC ties involving violent MPs, like Mars/Saturn or Saturn/Pluto.

* The violence MPs: Mars/Saturn, Mars/Uranus, Mars/Neptune, Saturn/Neptune, Saturn/Pluto.

I'm debating:

* Sun/Pluto, Moon/Pluto, Sun/Saturn, even Moon/Uranus and including 8C and 8R with any traditional malefic: Mars, Saturn, Pluto - etc. Also, Nessus and Dejanira MPs.

* Nessus / Dejanira connexions.

* Algol, and Anaretic degrees.

What are some strong markers from both? I'd like to investigate both commission of homicide and victimisation (hence Dejanira and Chiron), and also suicide.

posted December 07, 2013 03:36 AM            

It's synastry, actually, so, neither. This is all purely speculative and potentially karmic.

I'm glad you asked about VENUS and PLUTO, though. Natally, neither of us have much going there, BUT, we both have VENUS/PLUTO conjunct, and on my VENUS, square his ASCENDANT, square my MARS.

Wow. Here's the long and short of the synastry ties there:

His PLUTO conjunct my VENUS
His VENUS sextile my PLUTO

Looking at his PLUTO:

• 9H
• 12R
• conjunct URANUS (3R)

His VENUS:

• 9H
• 6R and 11R

My PLUTO:

• 2H
• 3R
• conjunct SUN (12R)

My VENUS:

• 12H
• 2R and 9R

As you can already see from cursory glance, there's a LOT of mirroring here on strictly a natal level.

Now check this out:

His VENUS / my 12H
My PLUTO / his 11H
My VENUS / his 9H
His PLUTO / my 1H

9H and 12H popping up again. 11H, too.

What I find most interesting is what picture just these two points alone is painting.

His PLUTO, for example, in his 9H indicates his extremist 'do-or-die' hidebound principles; this is furthered by the fact his SUN is 9R, and in 8H. Again, PLUTO is 12R, too. It DOES seem this has a karmic linkage; not to mention a paranoia about institutionalisation from seemingly nowhere (conjunct URANUS, 1°.) Being 3R, it stands to reason schools set him off most in his youth. 'Mandatory, diurnal incarceration,' he calls it.

Let's look at my VENUS (which conjuncts it).

Again we're immediately linked to karma (and institutions, oddly enough) as VENUS is 12H. It's also 9R - but more on why THAT absolutely FLOORS me in a bit. As 12H is arguably a house of suffering, the fact VENUS here, 9R, would belie that I'd suffer due to something surrounding principles, philosophy, and even potentially abroad. (The position of my 9H, and anything there, would tell more of that story.) It does so happen I have CHIRON here. It's trine his PLUTO 1°.

Now, for anyone paying close attention, there's a violent midpoint that's not only present, but conjunct a personal point: his PLUTO/URANUS in my 12H conjunct my VENUS - my 9R.

... Oh, dear.

I'm seeing a potential marker of previous life violence in direct relationship: that which my VENUS represents (more on that later) and his extremist (PLUTO-URANUS) principles (9H / 9R).

That's all well and appropriately puzzling, until the addition of two more points, really, just one and a significant asteroid acting in a 'name' function.

ATROPOS-MADHATTER

My ATROPOS is near-exact conjunct his PLUTO; widely conjunct my VENUS, expanding and texturing its influence.

The inevitability of MADHATTER, fused with extremist principles, originating from the House of Death.

... Oh, joy.

If I had any hope of potentially fleeing any connexion to the other patterns and configurations, that goes out the window - thanks to ATROPOS (which activates SATURN) and MADHATTER - doing the same for his MARS.