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Author Topic:   7th harmonic and 9th harmonic in relationships
Ceridwen
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posted January 18, 2014 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was experimenting a little with these harmonics.

Both I have read to relate to soulmates of some kind.

Well the 9th harmonic is used in Vedic a lot (as navamsa, using sidereal zodical of course), and it is said to relate to marriage partner, soulmate and the likes.
In other books (like Hamblins) I have found the mentioning it describes joy, happiness and connectedness in a greater frame (within one`s social environment for example).

As the harmonic made of 3x3 it is said to describe "pure threeness", like a trine chart on steroids.

The 7th harmonic chart of course is an irrational number (septile-series), and a prime number, very unique.
It is said to relate to inspiration, is quite internal, but also has been linked to otherworldliness, spirituality, linking the visible to the unseen world, and is often mentioned as denoting "fatefulness".
David Hamblin also sees it as descriptive of "romanticism", the sort of things that make your heart sing.

On the other hand it seems to also be irrational, and sometimes too prone to fantasy, and can be rather obsessive.


I was wondering now if that might show in synastry. Like those spiritual (or fantasized) affairs/ relationships, brimming with romantic idealism, feeling fated, meant to be, but often have a more than slight obsessive quality, might have strong aspects in 7th harmonics, while the 9th harmonics might rather denote relationships, which are grounded on this earth, and anchored in our everyday-reality.

(Of course these are just two special aspect series being emphasized, just branching out a little from the traditional chart-reading).


I remember having seen the 7th and 9th harmonic (I focused on only the conjunctions in these harmonic charts, excluding the conjunctions already present in the usual natal chart, as these conjunctions are showing the septiles and noviles that are existent in the natal synastry, just making it easier to locate them in a chart. lol).


Anyway I saw these in a couple`s chart, who were in a long distance relationship for many years. They were very much in love, very energetic and romantic (though for both it was a little uncharacteristic, being so romantic outwardly), and as long as there was this long distance thing going, everything was really fine and passionate.
But the moment they tried to anchor the relationship more into their environment, melt their two lives together in very practical terms (moving in together for a start), it all broke apart. And though they are both very open tolerant people on their own who used to stay friends with their exes, in this case it did not work out that way. I suppose there were a lot of hurt feelings in play.


Anyway the 7th harmonic shows this:

° Her Sun-Pluto conjunct his Moon-MC

(need I say more? ).


° her Mars conjunct his Venu


These were the only really important aspects in the 7th, but what aspects they were. lol


In the 9th harmonic there was:


° Her Jupiter conjunct his ceres

°! her Saturn conjunct his IC

° her Pluto conjunct his Saturn

° her NN conjunct his Uranus


What a difference right there!


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Doux Rêve
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posted January 18, 2014 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doux Rêve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting Ceri, as usual.

So, it's more important to have connections between the 9 harmonic charts for a relationship? While 7 harmonic aspects are more unpredictable?

Do you ever take natals into account with Harmonic charts?

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 18, 2014 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not surprised to find so many 7th Harmonic aspects with Virgo guy LOL

Here's our results
my 7th H Moon conjunct his n. NN 1°
my 7th H Mercury conjunct his n. SN 2°
my 7th H Venus opposite his n. Moon 0°
my 7th H Venus opposite his n. Mars 0°
my 7th H Mars conjunct his n. Desc 0°
my 7th H Mars opposite his n. Sun 0°
my 7th H Jupiter conjunct his n. Jupiter 2°
my 7th H Jupiter opposite his n. Saturn 1°
my 7th H Jupiter opposite his n. Neptune 1°

his 7th H Mercury conjunct my n. Jupiter 0°
his 7th H Mercury conjunct my n. IC 3°
his 7th H Mars conjunct my n. Moon 1°
his 7th H Mars conjunct my n. Mars 2°
his 7th H Jupiter conjunct my n. Desc 2°
his 7th H Uranus conjunct my n. Moon 1°
his 7th H Uranus conjunct my n. Mars 0°
his 7th H Neptune conjunct my n. Sun 0°
his 7th H Neptune opposite my n. Saturn 1°
his 7th H Vertex conjunct my n. MC 0°

EDIT:

Oops, forgot to check the 7th H — 7th H synastry!!

my Asc conjunct his Desc 3°
my IC conjunct his MC 1°
my Asc conjunct his Mercury 3°
my Desc conjunct his Vertex 0°
my Sun conjunct his Sun 3°
my Mars opposite his Neptune 0°
my Jupiter conjunct his Mars 1°
my Jupiter conjunct his Uranus 1°
my Saturn opposite his Sun 2°
my Saturn conjunct his Desc 0°
my Saturn conjunct his Anti-Vertex 3°
my Pluto opposite his Sun 2°
my Pluto conjunct his Desc 4° (might be too wide to count..)

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 18, 2014 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, I honestly wasn't expecting this much 9th harmonic action to be present o.O

What do you get from this Ceri?

9th H — 9th H
Sun conjunct Sun 3°
my Desc conjunct his Vertex 0°
my MC conjunct his Venus 0°
my Mars opposite his Neptune 0°
my Jupiter conjunct his Neptune 0°
my Saturn conjunct his Desc 1°
my Saturn opposite his Sun 3°
my Pluto opposite his Jupiter 3°
my Vertex conjunct his Mercury 3°

My 9th — his natal
my 9th H Sun opposite his n. Sun-Moon mp 0°
my 9th H Moon conjunct his n. Sun-Moon mp 0°
my 9th H Mercury conjunct his n. Anti-Vertex 0°
my 9th H Saturn conjunct his n. Moon 2°
my 9th H Saturn conjunct his n. Mars 3°
my 9th H Neptune conjunct his n. Jupiter 2°
my 9th H Neptune opposite his n. Saturn 0°
my 9th H Neptune opposite his n. Neptune 2°

His 9th H — my natal
his 9th H Moon conjunct my n. Anti-Vertex 1°
his 9th H Mercury conjunct my n. NN 3°
his 9th H Saturn opposite my n. Sun 1°
his 9th H Saturn conjunct my n. Saturn 2°
his 9th H Uranus opposite my n. Mars 2°
his 9th H Neptune opposite my n. Mercury 1°
his 9th H Pluto conjunct my n. Venus 1°
his 9th H NN opposite my n. Pluto 2°

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IMoppedtheFloor
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posted January 18, 2014 09:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OP are you pulling up the 7th harmonic in sidereal too or just the 9th?

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Lioness
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posted January 19, 2014 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lioness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IMoppedtheFloor:
OP are you pulling up the 7th harmonic in sidereal too or just the 9th?

That's my question also..
And do you compare sidereal natal (other person) to sidereal 9th/7th

Also which sidereal, helio or Hindu

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 04:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:

Do you ever take natals into account with Harmonic charts?

No, NEVER.

The harmonic charts are a magnifying glass on a certain perspective on the natal itself.
For example the 9th harmonic chart illuminates all aspects of the 9th harmonic (novile, binovile, trine, quadranovile) in a natal chart.
Though harmonic astrologers DO take other aspects than conjunction in the harmonic chart itself into account (they are minor aspects, you cannot see otherwise, like an oposition in the 9th, is really an 18th harmonic aspect in the natal).

There are also very specific harmonic orbs.
But one can remember this: if you have a 9th harmonic aspect in the natal chart with exactly one degree, it will appear as a 9 degree conjunction in the 9th harmonic chart.
a one degree septile will appear as 7 degree conjunction in the 7th harmonic chart.


I do not really know what is "better" to have. I think 7th harmonics are more unpredictable aspects, yes, but also probably more romantic in a sense. This wild spiritual romantic pull might be found there, while 9th harmonic aspects seem to be more stable, harmonious, it is easier to be at ease with one another, it just feels like a natural fit.

If you only have strong 7th harmonic synastry, you might be wildly attracted to each other (though it is sort of a soul-attraction, the pure sexual link might be rather found in 5th harmonic chart, as this seems to relate to the manifestation of style and behaviour, including sexual one, and the quintile series itself is quite magical, providing this creative spark, but might be missing the depth of the 7th).

Oh and the harmonic charts are there to illuminate aspect-relationships. No signs and houses! (it is different approach than the Vedic one)


For me natally, both the 7th and 9th show strong emphasis, in very different kind.


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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 04:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope, I am doing tropical astrology, so I am usng the tropical charts.

You can of course check for the Vedic saptamsa and navamsa, which needs sidereal zodiac. But that is a different approach with different rules, you probably better ask Jessica or someone else knowing more aobut Vedic astrology about that.

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 19, 2014 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So its good to have a balance of both 7th and 9th, yes?

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 05:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I think so.

The 7th illustrates the septile-series between charts.
The 9th illustrates the novile-series between charts.

Some descriptions of these:

"Due to the non-rationality of the numbers produced when the circle is divided by 7, it is assumed that these aspects represent the non-rational points in the cycle. Thus on a personality level they show as obsessive or compulsive behavior, irrationality or strange inexplicable points in the process.[...]


A final important note: if you have two or more planets in a septile, biseptile, or triseptile to each other, they will naturally create resonant "void points" where other septile series aspects fall. These are trigger points for irrational conditions or personality "destiny" elements to come forth in the life. Though these periods can seem very weird indeed, they are points of choice, decision, and movement where reason may fail even though major things are in motion."
http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2005/09/astrological_as.html

"Septiles between charts behave somewhat like high-powered lamps pointed at the planets. Those two planets will relate in a truthful way, and we won’t be able to hide from one another. " http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/help-needed-mining-the-minor-aspects/

"All three of these septile frequencies have to do with destiny – something bigger and more far reaching than the conscious self. The best way to handle them is to go with your impulses where they are concerned – follow your guidance, and do what you feel an urge to do. Don’t let a need for justification stand in your way. the universe is trying to tell you something, and all you have to do is sharpen your ears and allow yourself to flow with the energy.
The septile can also make us feel that we need to do something in a particular way, and even if another way may seem more practical or accepted, we need to follow the way that feels right to us."
http://johnsandbach.com/?p=188


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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 19, 2014 05:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those 7th Harmonic descriptions seem to hit the nail with what I'm experiencing with Virgo guy, especially that last description.

It is very irrational indeed, whatever "it" is...

Thank you for sharing Ceridwen!

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have several 7th harmonic aspects in my natal (showing up as a stellium in 7th harmonic chart). As well as 9th harmonic aspects.

To identify those I will need on focus on the conjunctions in the respective charts.
Since my birthtime is precise, I can also take conjunctions to the angles into consideration.


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We have of course to check back with the natals, cause natal conjunctions will also appear as conjunctions in the harmonic charts, but if we have eliminated those and we are still left with at least three planets in conjunction to each other in the harmonic chart, it means that actually there is a harmonic triangle, a closed ciruit of these aspects in the natal chart, probably also coinciding with a midpoint picture.

I believe that THOSE are the real building blocks in synastric aspects, not isolated aspects on their own, but what Magi astrology call planetary geometry.
In this instance they will be of the same nature (same harmonic), and therefore resonate with the meaning of the aspect quite much.

In my case I find it interesting for the different building blocks I have in the mentioned harmonics:

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 19, 2014 06:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We have of course to check back with the natals, cause natal conjunctions will also appear as conjunctions in the harmonic charts, but if we have eliminated those and we are still left with at least three planets in conjunction to each other in the harmonic chart, it means that actually there is a harmonic triangle, a closed ciruit of these aspects in the natal chart, probably also coinciding with a midpoint picture."

Lol I was wondering there why most of our natal conjunctions got repeated in the harmonics.

"I believe that THOSE are the real building blocks in synastric aspects, not isolated aspects on their own, but what Magi astrology call planetary geometry.
In this instance they will be of the same nature (same harmonic), and therefore resonate with the meaning of the aspect quite much."

Yes, it makes a lot of sense!!


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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the 7th:

1) Sun, Moon, Mercury, Vertex with Pluto on the Antivertex; of course Sun and Mercury are conjunct in natal and therefore they will appear in every harmonic chart.

But checking back with my natal it turns out that

Sun-Mercury is septile my Moon (0°15 and 0°37) - the real orb/ natal orb is 7 times smaller than it appears in the harmonic chart itself.

Sun-Mercury are triseptile my Vertex with about 10 minutes of orb and 43 minute or orb.

Moon is triseptile my Vertex with 5 minutes of orb

Of course that HAS to result in a midpoint picture, and consequently my Vertex is opposite my Sun/Moon and Moon/MErcury-mp at about 3 minutes of orb (in the case of Sun/Moon).

But the important thing is that what led to that midpoint picture was a 7th harmonic triangle.

I think that this might be at least subtly different to someone who has the same midpoint picture, but made up of 4th or 3rd harmonic for example.

It also means that the very core of my personality (Sun and Moon) are resonating with the septile series, which might explain how I seem to never be totally of this world. LOL
Flights of fantasy or spiritual truth, who is really to say?
But it makes a huge part of my personality. Also might explain why I am more introverted than a Sag-Sun and Aqua Moon are said to be usually (though in my case they are below the horizon anyway).


Approaching this from a different perspective, there is a Sun-Moon-Vertex-conjunction in the 7th harmonic chart, right there with the 7th house ruler Mercury.
IT seems like these irrational infatuations or even soulconnections are well reaching deep into my own soul as well. Quite receptive to fancy me thinks.


On the other hand you can see how Saturn and Juno are on the DESC in 9th harmonic chart, and atually Sun is still in orb.

Tracing it back to the natal this is because

Juno trines Saturn with only one minute of orb
Juno binovile DESC with 3 minutes of orb
Juno binovile Sun with 1°02 (just outsie the one degree range, though harmonic astrologers propose a bit larger than one degree orb for the novile anyway).

Saturn novile DESC with 3 minutes of orb
Saturn quadranovile Sun with 1°01

Sun quadranovile DESC with 1°05

And yes, of course that relates to some midpoint pictures.

Sun opposite Saturn/DESC - 1.03
Juno conjunct Sun/DESC - 0.30


Comparing both harmonic complexes with each other, it is easy to see, that while I might be easily given to fancy and also seeking this irrational spiritual connection, and let`s not forget Pluto on the Antivertex there, there might be a compulsive obsessive quality to it, and of course the 7th harmonic isn ot really "of this world" and often quite unstable.

And then on the other hand for actual relating in a greater realistic context, how I feel at ease and what gives me a sense of joy and completion, that really comes with the Saturn-Juno-Desc-(Sun) complex in the 9th chart, showing a much greater need and capacity for groundedness and stability.

And in a way that pretty much sums my whole personality up. lol

Yes, I need my fantasies, dreams, spiritual experiences, but I also need the stable frame and feeling of safety and permanence and security in relationships.

I think if I ever should get married, it would have to be very committed.


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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 06:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW I know this was not synastry, but I just believe it is important to start with the individual charts and see what is there.

I also noticed that in my 7th harmonic chart I do have a complex of

° Venus-Lilith-true Lilith - Chiron.

That looks rather, well, intense, and exhausting.

Venus septile Lilith and true Lilith
Venus biseptile Chiron
Lilith and true Lilith septile Chiron.

As a matter of fact the true Lilith-Chiron-septile has an orb of 0.00

The midpoint picture coming with this is

Lilith=true Lilith conjunct Venus/Chiron
(all within half a degree)


So another complex to consider.


Also as I see there is a septile between Mars and juno, though it is just out of the one degree range (1°03)
It is a single aspect, not a harmonic complex, but it alerts me to the possibility that I might be drawn irrationally (cause it is 7th harmonic) to people who will have a planet located such that it will have a 7th harmonic aspect to my Mars and Juno. Preferably to both.

There is actually also an aspect between Moon and Venus, but in the 9th harmonic. They are novile with 58 minutes of orb.
Which also alerts me to people who might have a personal planet or even an outer one such that it will aspect my Moon and Venus (with a novile, binovile, trine or quadranovile), though actually probably the best placement would be the quadranovile before Venus or behind Moon (or even the opposing degree of the quadranovile position) because that would not only be quadranovile my Moon and Venus, but opposing the Moon/Venus-mp.
(the opposing degree would be actually an 18th harmonic aspect which is a subtle refined variation of the 9th harmonic).

So I am going to keep an eye on these planets on 25-27 Cancer. lol

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just noticed something.

So in my 9th harmonic I have Moon novile Venus - its "fulfillment-point" would be on 26°37 Cancer or Capricorn.

26°37 Capricorn is the exact midpoint of my Moon/Venus, but 26°37 Cancer would be quadranovile both, Moon and Venus, and therefore complete a 9th harmonic triangle.

The point at 26°37 Capricorn would actually be in an 18th harmonic aspect with both,Moon and Venus. 18th harmonic is the octave of the 9th harmonics, but as I said a bit more subtle, as the harmonic is higher. However, it is actually 9x2 (appearing as oppositions in the 9th harmonic chart) and therefore introducing a bit of dynamic into the ease and harmony of the 9th harmonic itself, a striving to accomplish the completion, a spark to push you going there, instead of just providing it to me.


Now, it gets a little freaky imo.

In my 7th harmonic I have this biseptile from Mars to Juno. Its fullfillment point would be the point where a planet is septile to my Mars AND my Juno, so in the middle between them.

This point, which is of course my Mars/Juno-midpoint lies on 26°04 Capricorn!!!

Remember that point?

In this case it is the direct fulfillment point of my Mars-Juno-7th harmonic.
The point opposite that one on 26°04 Cancer would actually be in a 14th harmonic aspect to my Mars and Juno (the opposition in the 7th harmonic chart). I suppose this 14th harmonic chart means that there is a bit of a tension moment introduced in the fantasies or hardly graspable 7th harmonic experiences. Maybe striving to bring some of that fatedness down to earth, or the feeling of it at least. But Iwill have to look it up.

Any way I just find it interesting how these two isolated aspects Moon/Venus-9th harmonic and Mars/Juno-7th harmonic, point to the same point or rather axis, like an arrow. Look there! (at least in terms of these planets).


Now coincidentally, or not so coincidentally Mr Sag, has his Venus on 25.55 Capricorn.

I really laughed when I saw it a few minutes ago. Like his Venus is gathering, collecting, reflecting all these complexes back to me.

Of course it also means that his Venus has aspects to my chart:

- septile my Mars (40 minutes)
- septile my Juno (23 minutes)

and has an 18th harmonic aspect (opposite in 9th harmonic) to my Venus (12 minutes); I think the aspect to my Moon might be out of orb though (1 degree and one minute).

(actually it is even more complex than this as like me he has a Venus-Chiron-aspect in the 7th harmonic which of course connects to my Mars-Juno. lol)


Another interesting tidbit, so his Venus falls onto such a hotspot in my chart (even though it is not a major aspect, I am quite aware of that still. lol).

His Venus is on 25.55 Capricorn.

The night we first met his pr Sun was on 25.55 Capricorn.


His pr Sun on his natal Venus was there with this precise 0.00 degree orb only for 5 days, and we met at the exact middle of this timeframe.

That is why I love astrology. lol The timing is so infallable, even though I might not understand it at that time.

I interprete it that there was a dormant potential that he might trigger the Moon/Venus-9th and Mars/Juno-7th complex in me (which he did btw. lol), and that pr Sun on his Venus showed that this was timeframe this could happen. Like a switch getting switched on for that time being.


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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted January 19, 2014 07:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's amazing about the Cap 25° point woah!!!

Interestingly, just like the 7th harmonic has overtones of spirituality/trascendance, that Cap 25°–26° carries a similar meaning too imo:

A nature spirit dancing in the mist of a waterfall.
Transcendence of spirit over body and environment. Lightness of understanding. Inexhaustible soul resources. Effervescence.

Dang, astrology is awesome isn't it

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it`s interesting about the spiritual Sabian there as well.

In the very least this finding seems to indicate that his Venus should be looked at in terms of harmonic synastry as well. If there are other vital links in the 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th harmonic charts (these are the recommended ones for checking in synastry).

Of course we already know that his Venus will be conjunct my Mars and Juno in the 7th harmonic chart (which is knwon to the Magi as Magi Zodiac 7) and that his Venus will be opposite my Venus in the 9th harmonic chart.

But it might be interesting to see if there are other planets linked with his Venus and becoming part of hte whole complex.

Also, of course we have to trace the planets back to the natal, and Venus is an important planet in his chart. It rules the intercepted 7th house and falls into the 11th house.
Hamblin suggests to take special note of the planets which are natally linked to the 7th house (through falling there or ruling it) in relationships.

In his case Venus carries the meaning/ essence of how he relates/ expresses himself or what he needs in term of relationships (7th house) as well as friendships or how he receives love and appreciation from others (11th house).

Interesting how this becomes a hotspot in the synastry. (his Venus is also loosely conjunct composite Moon by 3 degrees btw).


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FireMoon
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posted January 19, 2014 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FireMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting... I of course had to look up my own past synastry lol and I think as you said I'm not sure one is better than the other. In my experience having a lot of 9th harmonic aspects and only a few not so great 7th aspects hasn't exactly worked out either. Using tight orbs we have...

7th harmonic:
My Mars opposite his Venus
my Uranus conjunct his Mercury
My Jupiter conjunct his Ceres
My Mars conjunct his Chiron (might be a little wide though)

9th harmonic:
My Mercury conjunct his NN
My Moon conjunct his SN
My Dsc conjunct his Mercury
My Saturn opposite his Uranus
My Vertex conjunct his Neptune
My Neptune conjunct his Venus
My MC conjunct his Sun-Jupiter
My Sun-Jupiter conjunct his Ceres
My Ceres conjunct his Mercury

Sooo I guess I would say you really do need both lol. Your friends situation is interesting though... And idk if 9th harmonic aspects create stability necessarily, but it is a very deep and genuine "soul connection" that is very binding from my experience at least..

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was thinking...

maybe it would be valuable and insightful to

1) trace complexes in the same harmonic, which would describe a natal resonance between two people.

(harmonic complexes need to have at least 3 planets at different points at the zodiac, belonging to the same aspect series - those can be seen as conjunctions in the respective harmonic chart, but you have to exclude the Radix-conjunctions from the counting).


2) Trace isolated aspects (a 2 planet conjunction in the harmonic) and see if the partner`s planets occupy the "fulfillment-point" to make a harmonic triangle, or opposing that point

(in these cases there will be midpoint configurations as well).


Actually I start thinking that for interpreting midpoint configurations you HAVE to also take into consideration, which harmonic is creating the midpoint picture.

I know that the Saturn/Neptune-mp is being considered a very very challenging, even harmful one.
In my chart however Neptune (and NN) are biquintile Saturn with pretty much exactly one degree orb.

I am not saying a triggering of this midpoint is really easy for me, but it also has never been as horrible as it had been touted; no matter how difficult it might be, it usually leads to some unique ideas in my case. Usually a connecting/ merging of structure and something more creative.
For example last time Sun was transiting that point (28 Virgo) I was getting this spiritual buzz again (head buzzing, seeng lights even with eyes closed, my brain running on overdrive. lol), complete with ideals, thoughts, insights that seem to come out of the nothing, yet proved true later on. Also been asked, no pushed and forced, to take over some sort of theatre/ literature course in school, and well as a matter of fact I have been doing it since then, and I never know what exactly I am doing, I am just doing it while doing. lol

And during these 2 or 3 days I actually outlined the ideas (yeah I DO have a rough plan and direction. lol).

I wonder if maybe the fact that my Saturn/Neptune-mp resonates with the 5th harmonic and quintiles is helpful in things like these.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireMoon:
In my experience having a lot of 9th harmonic aspects and only a few not so great 7th aspects hasn't exactly worked out either. Using tight orbs we have...


Yes, I can see that.
I mean what use is having a marriage, even a stable, comfortable, respected (from the outside) one, a meeting of your goals, even a meeting of souls, if the spark and chemistry (5th harmonic) or the deeper feeling of meaning and purpose and warmth and romanticism (7th harmonic) is missing?

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FireMoon
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posted January 19, 2014 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FireMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes, I can see that.
I mean what use is having a marriage, even a stable, comfortable, respected (from the outside) one, a meeting of your goals, even a meeting of souls, if the spark and chemistry (5th harmonic) or the deeper feeling of meaning and purpose and warmth and romanticism (7th harmonic) is missing?

Well it's interesting but honestly idk what I think about the 7th harmonic indicating romanticism, warmth, etc. and 9th harmonic relating to comfort/ stability and respect from the outside... Weirdly enough I actually experienced it as the opposite. This relationship went on for years but was never "official". There were always external obstacles and things always seemed uncertain, but it genuinely didn't matter at the time because there was such a dreamy, in love, walking on air type of bond..

The fact that no one actually "saw" that does feel a little invalidating now, but it is what it is lol. That's just my experience though, and there's a lot of other stuff going on in our charts too which could change things of course...

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Ceridwen
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posted January 19, 2014 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everything has to be taken in the context of the radix of course.

I was just basing the interpretation of the 9th harmonic of what Cochrane and others said about it, relating it into a larger context, a community.
I honestly do not know how I feel about it myself. I intuitively agree more with Hamblin´s take on the 9th harmonic (and also the Indian view), in that 9th harmonic is descriptive of the joy and pleasure-principle, but in a deeper soulful kind of way. A natural compatibility or fit maybe.
Strong 9th harmonic aspects just seem to vibe together in a harmonious way. Like a third, in music. If you play two notes, that are a third of each other, they are not exactly the same, but they harmonize, there is a full and satisfied sound to it.
It makes sense actually, considering that he 9th harmonic is relating to "pure threeness", also including the trine.

In Vedic of course it relates to the soulmate, the soul, the marriage partner (the ideal one, not necessarily the factual one), which is probably why Cochrane related it to the community as marriage is a social construct/ ritual.

However for me that resonating with each other in harmony, and hence a possibility of finding contentment, is what is at the base of the 9th harmonic chart.
If it is strong, it is a deeply felt joy (not pleasure like in the external way, but an inner pleasure and bliss).

In this sense it can stay clearly internal of course, or at least not necessarily being seen by other people around you.

As for the 7th harmonic, difficult.
Being a prime number, it is unique of course, but unlike the 5th harmonic it is quite introverted. Some people relate it to structure and focus, probably because of the relation to Saturn they see.
I cannot confirm that at all though.

Again relating it to musical theory, the 7th harmonic is of course the SEventh.
My music teacher called that chord "longing/yearning chord".
Because it doesn`t give a stable point, an end point like for example the third or even the fifth, but it seems to subtly push you forwards towards the next note (the 8th). It is a transition-note.
Like you can already sense, see the goal, the promise of bliss and contentment, but you are not there yet.

This feeling of yearning and longing, which is a typical feature of romanticism, does provide its own slightly melancholic or sentimental magic. It is almost like being "between-notes" or between worlds.
It is a twilight-feeling coming with this. Otherworldly.

In this sense i can understand these aspects.


Also of course we have to consider WHAT planetary aspects are present in the harmonic charts.

A Neptune-Sun aspect in the 9th might very well be all dreamy.

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tgem
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posted January 19, 2014 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah I can totally see this dynamic between the 7th and the 9th- check this synastry with SM: (max 3 degrees)

Yes, I always felt our relationship was very fated, a ton of romance and fantasy and OMG obsessive!

So, 7th harmonic synastry:
My ASC conjunct his sun
My ASC conjunct his Pluto
My Pluto conjunct his sun
My Juno conjunct his neptune

However, when it came to the 7th harmonic synastry I find a totally different dynamic:
My mars conjunct his jupiter
My ASC conjunct his jupiter
My jupiter conjunct his Saturn

So interesting Ceri! This explains ALOT!!!

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Hera
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posted January 19, 2014 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am looking at ours, from what I noticed my Moon makes a lot of squares to BB's planets in the 9th harmonic. But I am sure we have some nice aspects too.

Ceri, what orbs do you use in harmonics, for synastry I mean?

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