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Author
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Topic: Aspects of survivors
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sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 01:20 PM
  
I was watching 'Misery' today, and Paul Sheldon is an excellent example of someone who has the innate traits of a survivor. He's resourceful, crafty, and never stops fighting so he can survive. Immediately, I thought of Mars-Pluto in his imaginary chart, but I am wondering what other aspects can lead someone to be a survivor. Is it Mars-Uranus? Pluto on the Ascendant? Mars-Pluto is a big factor, though I'm positive this can't be the only aspect that leads one to never give up fighting in the face of opposition. I'm interested to hear thoughts and personal experiences anyone has to share. IP: Logged |
VenusDiSirius
Knowflake Posts: 5878
From:
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 02:42 PM
You could argue that any aspect from an outer towards Sun/Mars would produce something extraordinary. I'd personally go for a Saturn/Pluto conj closely followed by the square. IP: Logged |
PisceanDream
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Alexandria, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted August 10, 2014 02:54 PM
I don't know why I thought of Mars-Saturn aspects as well, even harsh aspects if the energy is handled well. It gives stamina, endurance, focus and discipline. Mars-Pluto is also a good one. Mercury in aspect to Saturn and Mars is great because it gives mental agility and a focused mind oriented towards handling dire situations. A strong and clever mind is really important for survival. IP: Logged |
Brontex
Knowflake Posts: 228
From:
Registered: May 2013
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posted August 10, 2014 03:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PisceanDream:
A strong and clever mind is really important for survival.
Moon trine Pluto supposedly makes for good instinctive emotional resilience. Seems like it would come in handy when fighting severe psychological stress/torture.
IP: Logged |
PisceanDream
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Alexandria, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted August 10, 2014 04:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brontex:
Moon trine Pluto supposedly makes for good instinctive emotional resilience. Seems like it would come in handy when fighting severe psychological stress/torture.
Excellent point! IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
Knowflake Posts: 2899
From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted August 10, 2014 04:12 PM
Or Aron Ralston Somebody (or me) should find that guys chart. IP: Logged |
Dancing Maenad
Moderator Posts: 1347
From: The Harvest
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 10, 2014 04:44 PM
I think anything Pluto and Cap influences. I remember reading somewhere that if the end of the world would come, Capricorns would be the only ones left. Them and cockroaches. 
I think Scorps/Plutonians come second.
As for the aspects you mentioned, my chart is the poster child. I survived some nasty sh*t but it was no Auschwitz.
------------------
~the raving one dancing in the nude~ IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 8960
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 05:08 PM
Given those examples, I should be the strongest mofo alive, like the epitome of strength, resilience, courage, and all that juicy stuff.How come I'm the exact opposite?
Yo no entiendo. [edited the damn smiley that didn't work.] What if my dob is incorrect and all my placements are not what they are now... Or I'm an alien who was found in the trash can some decades ago and made to believe I'm human... *gasp*
IP: Logged |
Brontex
Knowflake Posts: 228
From:
Registered: May 2013
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posted August 10, 2014 05:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Given those examples, I should be the strongest mofo alive, like the epitome of strength, resilience, courage, and all that juicy stuff.How come I'm the exact opposite?
Maybe you just need someone to tie you to a bed, break your feet, and force you to write a novel? Those last two seem like a bit of a waste though.  IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
You could argue that any aspect from an outer towards Sun/Mars would produce something extraordinary. I'd personally go for a Saturn/Pluto conj closely followed by the square.
Isn't Saturn-Pluto generational, though? I agree that outer planets to inner planets, particular Mars, Sun and Mercury, seem like possible indicators! IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PisceanDream:
I don't know why I thought of Mars-Saturn aspects as well, even harsh aspects if the energy is handled well. It gives stamina, endurance, focus and discipline. Mars-Pluto is also a good one. Mercury in aspect to Saturn and Mars is great because it gives mental agility and a focused mind oriented towards handling dire situations. A strong and clever mind is really important for survival.
Thanks for this! Also I got your e-mail and I will reply tonight. It's been a bit of a difficult past few days.  I really like all of your thoughts on the topic. I never considered Mercury-Mars a good thing, for enduring, but you may actually have an excellent point there. I can see it being good for quick thinking. Mars-Saturn also makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Sun-Saturn can also be considered. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brontex:
Moon trine Pluto supposedly makes for good instinctive emotional resilience. Seems like it would come in handy when fighting severe psychological stress/torture.
Awesome point! Makes me think of Angelina Jolie, she has the opposition but she always struck me as a real 'survivor' type, especially when she opted to get a double mastectomy for cancer prevention. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
I think anything Pluto and Cap influences. I remember reading somewhere that if the end of the world would come, Capricorns would be the only ones left. Them and cockroaches. I think Scorps/Plutonians come second. As for the aspects you mentioned, my chart is the poster child. I survived some nasty sh*t but it was no Auschwitz.
Interesting! Haha...yes, I can see Capricorn and Scorpio influenced people being very strong in a crisis. Sorry you had some troubling times. Glad you made it through. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brontex:
Maybe you just need someone to tie you to a bed, break your feet, and force you to write a novel?Those last two seem like a bit of a waste though.
Haha...I like your sense of humor.  'Misery' is such a crazy movie, isn't it? But it's really good. I loved Kathy Bates as crazy Annie. She deserved accolades for her performance. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Given those examples, I should be the strongest mofo alive, like the epitome of strength, resilience, courage, and all that juicy stuff.How come I'm the exact opposite?
Yo no entiendo. [edited the damn smiley that didn't work.] What if my dob is incorrect and all my placements are not what they are now... Or I'm an alien who was found in the trash can some decades ago and made to believe I'm human... *gasp*
It must be the work of some really tough transits and progressions? :'/ That's what immediately came to mind. Typically people with these aspects do have a lot of inner strength, but maybe some adverse transits are draining your reserves. IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 8960
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 06:45 PM
I read the book a while ago.
It was an interesting read (and I effin' hate reading books, so that's gotta say something).Actually, Brontex, you have a point.
We don't know how strong we are unless we are given the chance to test our limits.
Given that most people with hard Saturn and/or Pluto aspects deal with a fair share of sh** in their lives, they kinda don't really have the choice but to learn how to be strong (or "die" figuratively or literally, or fail, etc). I believe a great deal of it comes with experience and time. It's in time of crisis that real strength and character shows. I believe I could possibly be one of those people - someone who seems to be very weak and fearful in everyday life but who manages to remain fairly calm and collected in times of external chaos (I don't *really* have enough experience to back this up, but that's a pretty nice thought, so what!). Okay maybe I'm totally making this up. Wishful thinking. Lol. sweet-scorpion, Nope, probably not a transit. I've been this way my whole life. I believe it's my crisis-oriented 6H (and all the hard aspects of course). It's the house where you learn how to live your life more effectively, and it shows how you deal with challenges. Since I have Venus/Jupiter in there first (leading planet AND ruler) that points to me being very nonchalant and expecting stuff to work out by itself (glossing over problems). Then, when the problems are ignored for too long, they tend to create cataclysmic changes in myself and in my life so that I can finally pay attention to them and deal with them (I suppose that's the Scorpio stuff that comes farther in the 6H) - that happens on the emotional and mental levels (Scorpio) but also on the physical level (6H = overall health). That's when I know I'm not using my energies properly and need to make some adjustments. Still haven't learned to channel them properly though (tSaturn on my Sun right now is trying to teach me lessons, I can feel it). Anyway, I know I have inner strength. It's simply blocked for the moment, although not completely. Sorry for the essay. IP: Logged |
VenusDiSirius
Knowflake Posts: 5878
From:
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 06:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Isn't Saturn-Pluto generational, though?
And?? Those generational birds still rule the houses, weave their own story... Mind you,  is slow, but not that slow. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 06:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
And?? Those generational birds still rule the houses, weave their own story... Mind you, is slow, but not that slow.
I see what you mean. I just wasn't sure if you meant just Saturn conj. Pluto, or the conjunction squaring off on the Moon, Mars, etc. of a person's natal chart. I'm a little foggy today. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 07:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Given that most people with hard Saturn and/or Pluto aspects deal with a fair share of sh** in their lives, they kinda don't really have the choice but to learn how to be strong (or "die" figuratively or literally, or fail, etc). I believe a great deal of it comes with experience and time. It's in time of crisis that real strength and character shows. I believe I could possibly be one of those people - someone who seems to be very weak and fearful in everyday life but who manages to remain fairly calm and collected in times of external chaos (I don't *really* have enough experience to back this up, but that's a pretty nice thought, so what!). sweet-scorpion, Nope, probably not a transit. I've been this way my whole life. I believe it's my crisis-oriented 6H (and all the hard aspects of course). It's the house where you learn how to live your life more effectively, and it shows how you deal with challenges. Since I have Venus/Jupiter in there first (leading planet AND ruler) that points to me being very nonchalant and expecting stuff to work out by itself (glossing over problems). Then, when the problems are ignored for too long, they tend to create cataclysmic changes in myself and in my life so that I can finally pay attention to them and deal with them (I suppose that's the Scorpio stuff that comes farther in the 6H) - that happens on the emotional and mental levels (Scorpio) but also on the physical level (6H = overall health). That's when I know I'm not using my energies properly and need to make some adjustments. Still haven't learned to channel them properly though (tSaturn on my Sun right now is trying to teach me lessons, I can feel it). Anyway, I know I have inner strength. It's simply blocked for the moment, although not completely. Sorry for the essay.
Excellent analysis, Doux. I loved reading it.  I can sense you do have a lot of inner strength, perhaps you just haven't been in the conditions to express it quite yet. Some of us with these difficult aspects don't fully embody and express their energies until the time calls for it, usually set off by a transit/progression of some kind. You made an excellent observation about your 6H and how Venus-Jupiter in the 1st operates in your nature, also. I have my chart ruler, Jupiter, conjunct Venus, and to be honest sometimes I do the same thing. I want to avoid the idea of problems existing, so I try not to think about them or let someone else take care of them. I feel bad about myself for doing this, and try to avoid it and channel my Mars-Pluto energies vs. falling to Jupiter-Venus and Mars-Neptune. I get the struggle. We have to believe in ourselves, though, to become more assertive when it comes to problem solving and facing these kinds of challenges where issues we gloss over eventually end up affecting and hurting our daily lives. [Venus also rules my 6H.] IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 8960
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 07:14 PM
How interesting. And thanks.
Venus rules my 6H too (it's not in the 1st, but in the 6H along with Jupiter). We have quite a few things in common (but hey, I knew that already ).IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 07:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
How interesting. And thanks.
Venus rules my 6H too (it's not in the 1st, but in the 6H along with Jupiter). We have quite a few things in common (but hey, I knew that already ).
Oops, sorry I misread that! I've had an upsetting day so my brain is a little foggy. You're welcome. IP: Logged |
Gemini Blues
Knowflake Posts: 199
From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
Registered: May 2014
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posted August 10, 2014 07:48 PM
Screw Mars...Pluto (transform, rebirth)
Saturn (pain to wisdom, work to reward)
Opp with the t square to Mercury in the 8th. That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger
That which does makes me phoenix! IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 07:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Screw Mars...Pluto (transform, rebirth)
Saturn (pain to wisdom, work to reward)
Opp with the t square to Mercury in the 8th. That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger
That which does makes me Phoenix!
Interesting and powerful response. Thank you for sharing. I can absolutely see how Saturn and Pluto touching Mercury can indicate a survivor mentality. And in a way, a better part of our existence is 'mind over matter'.
IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 4950
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted August 10, 2014 07:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I was watching 'Misery' today, and Paul Sheldon is an excellent example of someone who has the innate traits of a survivor. He's resourceful, crafty, and never stops fighting so he can survive. Immediately, I thought of Mars-Pluto in his imaginary chart, but I am wondering what other aspects can lead someone to be a survivor. Is it Mars-Uranus? Pluto on the Ascendant? Mars-Pluto is a big factor, though I'm positive this can't be the only aspect that leads one to never give up fighting in the face of opposition. I'm interested to hear thoughts and personal experiences anyone has to share.
I don't know this show "Misery." Is it based on the Stephen King book? (Haven't read it but finding a synopsis is easy enough, and I have a vague idea what it's about.) But I can share your description was me from a time I was held prisoner by a "bind, torture, and kill" psychopath. I never stopped thinking & trying, I was resourceful and clever, and I did escape, but it's not something I talk about freely, however. I personally think my Scorpio Jupiter (gives luck in cases like this as well as a positive attitude in the face of death) was a factor, along with life experiences before then (also with Scorpio Jupiter influencing them), but my 5H Sag fire (stellium moon, Mars, Neptune, Uranus) played a part. My Pluto is Libra on the Scorpio cusp (also in a stellium and includes sun) also played a role. Still, the experience scarred me (and I have a visible scar on my neck to this day from where my throat was slashed so that he could drink my blood). I did get over it but it took years. But I recall thinking I was about over it a few years or so ago when I saw some graphic billboard for one of those torture porn movies called Saw (IIRC) which upset me and sparked my PTSD. What really made me angry is I knew they did it with the express intent to upset people so that it would get people to talking about the movie (they apologized and took the sign down later, but it wasn't a real apology, they knew they had succeeded and therefore wasn't needed anymore, it was all part of the strategy) so if I raised a stink about it then I'd be playing right into their hands. They were just lucky I didn't know where any of them lived as I was ticked off to do something really stupid at that moment. IP: Logged |
sweet-scorpion
Moderator Posts: 2109
From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted August 10, 2014 07:58 PM
@PixieJaneOh, my God... I am so sorry that happened to you.  This is horrible. I wish I could give you a hug. I am so glad you are OK. Everything you described truly does show you have a reservoir of inner strength to survive such a scenario. I can't even imagine something so terrible. I appreciate you being trusting and open enough to write about it here for all of us. The billboard you described sounds completely ****** up and totally insensitive to victims of crime such as you...I'm sorry that you came across that. It makes me mad to know that their money making schemes caused you grief. </3 IP: Logged |
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