posted August 10, 2014 04:19 PM            

I think when saturn badly aspected in the angles house can make someone feel inferior or brought down by the society/people, even if they don't want.

Libra or 7th house too much populated can make someone too nice with people, and others might not reciprocate the same way, so they may be taken advantage of.

Pisces or 12th can be too nice too, and they're a bit vulnerable.

Saturn can restrict people of having that part of the chart.

In the first house or aries, saturn holds a person back from self-expression, speaking for oneself.

In the 10th house, saturn can make a person the slave of a society, they may not get a too respectable position or reputation as much as they desire.

Neptune is an ultimate masochist.

They'll do anything, they believe in the other person, let themselves get fooled, etc.

I know someone with mercury with neptune and she always complements people, say things that others want to hear, always trying to please people at the point of even lying. I don't understand why she needs to do that.

It makes me really angry because I have pluto square mercury and as you know that makes me hate bull$hit.

posted August 10, 2014 05:25 PM            

Good points though.

posted August 10, 2014 05:48 PM            

The way I saw it, I divided the Ms in two basic motivational groups: group one, that wasn't so much into the process, but was in it for the sensation of pain aspect, I called those sensation-driven, and group two, that did not care about pain much and only tolerated it, but liked being given instructions, told what to do - I called those instruction-driven. Those two motivations are very different, and astrologically, I'd say come from different parts. The first group is about the physical, the second about the mental. Of course, in reality, people are a mix, but if we're talking about theory...

Before I had hands-on experience, I thought it would be a Pisces thing, but in practice that's less the case than you'd think.
A lot of Ms are very clear thinkers and just want their brains to shut up for a bit. It has a Mars-Mercury component to it, that people usually miss because they're looking at the Pluto-Neptune side of the whole thing.

So in general, from what I can offer you from my POV - masochism is very complex and while some things might be clear in theory, in practice you have a lot more things going on.

posted August 10, 2014 05:50 PM            

Okay.

posted August 10, 2014 06:25 PM            

I do (or rather, did) to some extent and I have some of the things mentioned in the OP.

posted August 10, 2014 06:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
I was thinking more along the lines of, someone who enjoys (or "enjoys") emotional/mental suffering.

I do (or rather, did) to some extent and I have some of the things mentioned in the OP.

But not physical masochism. Well, not if the pain is inflicted by someone else, because I need to feel in control at all times. I used to "enjoy" inflicting pain on myself sometimes however (not purely for pleasure mind you, but mainly to alleviate some tension within myself). Actually that probably doesn't really apply. Eh, it's muddy territory.

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posted August 10, 2014 07:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
It's really not my intention to get graphic, though I suppose when it comes to masochism, it comes with the territory (which, I'm sure, is part of the appeal to those so inclined), but in BDSM it's not necessary to have physical contact with another person, and lots of masochists don't even like someone else touching them. Some just like guidance, or an understanding partner, or a safe environment. A lot of it is about control, of course, and regaining it in spaces where it seemed lost - the Plutonian. It's a known fact to every Dom that the submissive is really the one that's in charge. That's where the Pluto-Neptune plays out.

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posted August 10, 2014 07:22 PM            

It really depends on the context. We're not all speaking about the same thing.

But often what happens is that the same aspects/placements can be expressed in seemingly opposite ways... So the masochist becomes the sadist and vice versa (or the victim becomes the abuser), because at the root they share similar inner dynamics - themes of loss vs. gain of power for instance.

Ugh I'm getting tired and can't think much anymore.

posted August 12, 2014 08:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I love this! It makes so much sense for the BDSM scene. I'm a part of the scene and everything you've written here is very telling to how a scene actually goes. The submissive is actually taking a huge part of control and harnessing the dominant's power by setting limits, conditions, etc. They are giving up their control in a calculative, measured manner, and this is very telling of a Neptune-Pluto crossover. Also, you're not being graphic either [at least, didn't seem that way to me], so thanks for sharing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
^ Ja, it's murky waters.

It really depends on the context. We're not all speaking about the same thing.

But often what happens is that the same aspects/placements can be expressed in seemingly opposite ways... So the masochist becomes the sadist and vice versa (or the victim becomes the abuser), because at the root they share similar inner dynamics - themes of loss vs. gain of power for instance.

Ugh I'm getting tired and can't think much anymore.

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And I agree with your point that similar aspects can manifest in different ways, for sure!

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Mia Pluto, I think you meant to ask what makes a person a habitual victim who gets taken advantage of and walked over rather than a masochist.

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posted August 12, 2014 09:01 AM            

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posted August 12, 2014 09:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MiaPluto:
I didn't necessarily meant in the sexual way. I meant like someone who doesn't mind being controlled or told what to do, and doesn't mind being under authority.

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posted August 12, 2014 09:50 AM            

You know what, he has Moon in Taurus 3rd house square Uranus like I do. I was gonna say this makes him have kinky relationships with women but this is not true for me at all

posted August 12, 2014 08:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MiaPluto:
I didn't necessarily meant in the sexual way. I meant like someone who doesn't mind being controlled or told what to do, and doesn't mind being under authority.

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posted August 12, 2014 09:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Sounds like about 90% of the world.

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Lol!