posted August 17, 2014 11:35 AM            

What they all have in common is Mars in 12th or 8th in a water sign.
Kurt Cobaine had a water Mars but in 2nd house....he's one of the AC/Pluto club members, another aspect which seems to see a lot of suicide or early death(not good for me since I have that aspect)
His Pluto is on the 12th house side, I think that's a harder placement than being on the 1st house side.
This brings death very close to way your seen, could be symbolic death or death to the old ways to bring new growth but for some it seems to be more literal.

Both my son and I have Pluto/AC n we both almost died at his birth!

Could 8th/12th water Mars be another super tough aspect and indicate an inability or a limited ability to aggressively fight for life because it's lost in such deep dark places they can't reach it?
Im not saying all water Mars in these houses would go that far but maybe (depending on aspects) these ppl should be given extra attention n extra love, as their ability to fight for life is a bit harder for them to reach than others might be.

posted August 17, 2014 11:42 AM            

My boyfriend has Pisces venus in 12 and he has had many suicidal thoughts.

posted August 17, 2014 12:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
I have dated quite a few Water Mars' and none have been a happy camper...dark thought patterns galore and quite a bit of alcohol involved incl my father. Can't say none were suicidal though but I am not sure they had Mars in 12 or 8H.

My boyfriend has Pisces venus in 12 and he has had many suicidal thoughts.

I keep forgetting the smiley :-/

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Every water mars I've known is not very happy also....just very discontent with life in general. Mix that with the tough houses and there seems to issues!

posted August 17, 2014 12:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 7Grace:
8th house Mars, seem to come thru others, out of nowhere, sudden:
Lady Diana car crash
Marilyn Monroe drug overdose
John F Kennedy assassinated while in a moving car

according to a web site others with an 8th Mars:
Jodie Foster, Brigitte Bardot, Bruce Willis, Steve Jobs, Sylvester Stallone, Joan Baez, Courtney Love, Beethoven, Abraham Lincoln, Drew Barrymore, Steve McQueen, Kim Basinger, JS Bach, Mike Tyson, Trent Reznor, Charles Baudelaire, Farrah Fawcett, David Lynch, Benito Mussolini, Deepak Chopra, René Magritte, Sid Vicious, Whoopi Goldberg, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Shirley MacLaine, Raquel Welch, and Lisa Marie Presley

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posted August 17, 2014 12:19 PM            

In Cobain's case, I think that Pluto near the asc from the 12th was huge. But I mean, everyone is different. The 12th is strange. It's the house that undoes itself before it's renewed again in the first. The self reaches it's finish.
Plus, he had Uranus exactly ON his asc just barely in the 12th. I think that gets overlooked. I think that is HUGE.

I have Pluto/Asc in 1st.
Mars/Asc in 12th
Mars conjunct Mercury, trine jupiter (8th), and square moon.

I've had attempts. Maybe only two legit attempts, wait... 3-4. Just remembered a couple.

Well anyway, I'll try to stick to Mars (planets) in 12th.
I think it depends on aspects also, obviously. Mars in water or 12th wouldn't spell doom. What I DO think Mars adds is if it's in a place like that, with a person with those feelings is that it feels the need to take action.
In my case, it was PURELY escape. No other reason. I drove myself crazy and how do you escape yourself? You can't, not unless you eliminate yourself. I felt like an alien in this world. As if I could see things that the rest of the world couldn't, yet couldn't say anything for fear of being seen as crazy. Which is what I'm 100% certain would have happened.
I think with Mars involved, the danger is it will take those feelings and turn them into action.
Cobain, I don't know if it makes a big difference, but Pluto which touched his asc, and uranus, rules Scorpio, where his Mars was that also co-rules. Maybe that caused him to bring it to action. Plus uranus just making things erratic and perhaps wanting freedom from that house and it's mysteries. Bringing rebellion/independence, and death, to the self and with action.
But, I'm in no way a very good astrologer.

Maybe I didn't touch on the actual topic enough. Sorry. I'm a little scatterbrained.

posted August 17, 2014 01:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
A book I have indicates that Suicide (and attempted) is ruled by Uranus, Pluto, Neptune, 8th and 12th.

In Cobain's case, I think that Pluto near the asc from the 12th was huge. But I mean, everyone is different. The 12th is strange. It's the house that undoes itself before it's renewed again in the first. The self reaches it's finish.
Plus, he had Uranus exactly ON his asc just barely in the 12th. I think that gets overlooked. I think that is HUGE.

I have Pluto/Asc in 1st.
Mars/Asc in 12th
Mars conjunct Mercury, trine jupiter (8th), and square moon.

I've had attempts. Maybe only two legit attempts, wait... 3-4. Just remembered a couple.

Well anyway, I'll try to stick to Mars (planets) in 12th.
I think it depends on aspects also, obviously. Mars in water or 12th wouldn't spell doom. What I DO think Mars adds is if it's in a place like that, with a person with those feelings is that it feels the need to take action.
In my case, it was PURELY escape. No other reason. I drove myself crazy and how do you escape yourself? You can't, not unless you eliminate yourself. I felt like an alien in this world. As if I could see things that the rest of the world couldn't, yet couldn't say anything for fear of being seen as crazy. Which is what I'm 100% certain would have happened.
I think with Mars involved, the danger is it will take those feelings and turn them into action.
Cobain, I don't know if it makes a big difference, but Pluto which touched his asc, and uranus, rules Scorpio, where his Mars was that also co-rules. Maybe that caused him to bring it to action. Plus uranus just making things erratic and perhaps wanting freedom from that house and it's mysteries. Bringing rebellion/independence, and death, to the self and with action.
But, I'm in no way a very good astrologer.

Maybe I didn't touch on the actual topic enough. Sorry. I'm a little scatterbrained.

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posted August 17, 2014 02:07 PM            

Like Libran_dream said, my self-destructive thoughts/moods tend to pass quickly enough too because I just can't brood any longer and before long I find myself either laughing at something or just plain feeling better (and usually I am the only one who can pull myself out). It may very well be because of Gemini's mutability.

I also really relate to DeepFreeze's alien-like feeling, and feeling like I just know things/see things others don't, which definitely lends even more to feeling alien and feeling like I don't belong anywhere with anyone.

posted August 17, 2014 02:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
[b]A book I have indicates that Suicide (and attempted) is ruled by Uranus, Pluto, Neptune, 8th and 12th.

In Cobain's case, I think that Pluto near the asc from the 12th was huge. But I mean, everyone is different. The 12th is strange. It's the house that undoes itself before it's renewed again in the first. The self reaches it's finish.
Plus, he had Uranus exactly ON his asc just barely in the 12th. I think that gets overlooked. I think that is HUGE.

I have Pluto/Asc in 1st.
Mars/Asc in 12th
Mars conjunct Mercury, trine jupiter (8th), and square moon.

I've had attempts. Maybe only two legit attempts, wait... 3-4. Just remembered a couple.

Well anyway, I'll try to stick to Mars (planets) in 12th.
I think it depends on aspects also, obviously. Mars in water or 12th wouldn't spell doom. What I DO think Mars adds is if it's in a place like that, with a person with those feelings is that it feels the need to take action.
In my case, it was PURELY escape. No other reason. I drove myself crazy and how do you escape yourself? You can't, not unless you eliminate yourself. I felt like an alien in this world. As if I could see things that the rest of the world couldn't, yet couldn't say anything for fear of being seen as crazy. Which is what I'm 100% certain would have happened.
I think with Mars involved, the danger is it will take those feelings and turn them into action.
Cobain, I don't know if it makes a big difference, but Pluto which touched his asc, and uranus, rules Scorpio, where his Mars was that also co-rules. Maybe that caused him to bring it to action. Plus uranus just making things erratic and perhaps wanting freedom from that house and it's mysteries. Bringing rebellion/independence, and death, to the self and with action.
But, I'm in no way a very good astrologer.

Maybe I didn't touch on the actual topic enough. Sorry. I'm a little scatterbrained.

---

Yep... Mercury conjunct Mars in the square.
I could write a ton about it. It sucks.

Anyway, thank you. :hugs:

I'm not sure about all of this though.
I mean, it's only a sample of one person but my sister has Scorpio Mars, conjunct Jupiter, Neptune, and asc, all of those in 12th.
She's never had any addiction problems, depression problems, or any of that. She had her party days but that's nothing.
She's very positive. She's supportive and has projects all the time to improve her life.

But she's early sag asc conjunct first house sag Venus.
The ONLY square or opposition she has is mercury square a moon/pluto conjunction. (Libra moon - virgo Pluto)

posted August 17, 2014 03:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
A book I have indicates that Suicide (and attempted) is ruled by Uranus, Pluto, Neptune, 8th and 12th.

In Cobain's case, I think that Pluto near the asc from the 12th was huge. But I mean, everyone is different. The 12th is strange. It's the house that undoes itself before it's renewed again in the first. The self reaches it's finish.
Plus, he had Uranus exactly ON his asc just barely in the 12th. I think that gets overlooked. I think that is HUGE.

I have Pluto/Asc in 1st.
Mars/Asc in 12th
Mars conjunct Mercury, trine jupiter (8th), and square moon.

I've had attempts. Maybe only two legit attempts, wait... 3-4. Just remembered a couple.

Well anyway, I'll try to stick to Mars (planets) in 12th.
I think it depends on aspects also, obviously. Mars in water or 12th wouldn't spell doom. What I DO think Mars adds is if it's in a place like that, with a person with those feelings is that it feels the need to take action.
In my case, it was PURELY escape. No other reason. I drove myself crazy and how do you escape yourself? You can't, not unless you eliminate yourself. I felt like an alien in this world. As if I could see things that the rest of the world couldn't, yet couldn't say anything for fear of being seen as crazy. Which is what I'm 100% certain would have happened.
I think with Mars involved, the danger is it will take those feelings and turn them into action.
Cobain, I don't know if it makes a big difference, but Pluto which touched his asc, and uranus, rules Scorpio, where his Mars was that also co-rules. Maybe that caused him to bring it to action. Plus uranus just making things erratic and perhaps wanting freedom from that house and it's mysteries. Bringing rebellion/independence, and death, to the self and with action.
But, I'm in no way a very good astrologer.

Maybe I didn't touch on the actual topic enough. Sorry. I'm a little scatterbrained.

---

Amazing explanation!! I have the AC/Pluto but conjunct Venus and in libra I think allows me to give love to the pain of Pluto/AC...also my virgo Moon in 12th is exact semi-sextile my Venus, again blending the love with the pain...probably my god-send aspects!

posted August 17, 2014 03:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
I have a H8 Mars, it is a Mars that does get a bit dramatic, and bases it on suspicions of emotional rejection. Mine's in Gemini, so the self-destructive moods pass very quickly. I can mull bad things over and work myself up over them, but by the time I should be falling into a serious brood, I see something shiny needing my attention. So it's not so bad. I could imagine how it could be worse with water.

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posted August 17, 2014 03:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yellowelevator:
I have Mars in the 12th, loosely conjunct Moon. Not in a water sign though, in Gemini. I have definitely had suicidal thoughts before/dark thoughts, but I have never actually come so close to a real attempt.

Like Libran_dream said, my self-destructive thoughts/moods tend to pass quickly enough too because I just can't brood any longer and before long I find myself either laughing at something or just plain feeling better (and usually I am the only one who can pull myself out). It may very well be because of Gemini's mutability.

I also really relate to DeepFreeze's alien-like feeling, and feeling like I just know things/see things others don't, which definitely lends even more to feeling alien and feeling like I don't belong anywhere with anyone.

I have to say it is a difficult placement for sure (well, any planet in the 12th or even 8th isn't easy for that matter) but I have noticed and felt the affects of my Mars being there more than any other placement sometimes. I have to wonder if that is because it is the apex of a Yod, so perhaps it would be more noticeable to me in my life. I don't really know, all I can do is speculate when it comes down to it.

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posted August 17, 2014 04:47 PM            

I have suicidal thoughts at times and I do tend to worry a lot and have trouble taking action as water signs do. But id never even come close to killing myself..

I've tried recently to calm these overbearing feelings associated with these placements by practicing meditation.

I think these placements just show some sort of karma. It's sort of trying to walk in fog, you don't know where you are going! This leads to fear of course. And that fear can be destructive if not channelled..

For me I think it's even worse because my mars is square neptune!!

But yes with mars in a water sign or house, it's difficult because mars is ruled by Aries which is such a primal and aggressive sign. It's the start of the journey, the drive and force.

posted August 17, 2014 11:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by m.blade:
I have mars in Scorpio 12th house square neptune and opposite jupiter

I have suicidal thoughts at times and I do tend to worry a lot and have trouble taking action as water signs do. But id never even come close to killing myself..

I've tried recently to calm these overbearing feelings associated with these placements by practicing meditation.

I think these placements just show some sort of karma. It's sort of trying to walk in fog, you don't know where you are going! This leads to fear of course. And that fear can be destructive if not channelled..

For me I think it's even worse because my mars is square neptune!!

But yes with mars in a water sign or house, it's difficult because mars is ruled by Aries which is such a primal and aggressive sign. It's the start of the journey, the drive and force.

In 12th house especially, it feels so clouded and unable to find itself in the water. To others, it seems that we think too much but to mars in such a watery house it's what we are used to..

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posted August 17, 2014 11:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
I have mars in cancer retrograde 9th house opposite Neptune in 3rd, sometimes I struggle to make it through the day, I need to work on assertion as well.

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posted August 18, 2014 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Yes that square would be an intense addition to an already intense placement. I'm sorry you struggle at times with this! You probably have so much more strength than you know! Sometimes I've felt bad about things in my life but when I learn about some of these aspects I feel I have nothing to complain about, my struggles have been external more than internal...you guys are the truly strong ones.

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nonon trust me I am NOTHING but strong when it comes to this aspect.

To be really honest, it feels sort of cowardish. When I DO get the mental effort to actually do something and go for it (it has to be at that moment because it takes me a while to get it back) and I fail, I literally just recoil and go back to my old self.

Last year for instance, I was doing alot of healthy things for myself. I actually went vegan for about 3 months lol! my dad was really surprised, he never thought i had it in me. i lost a ton of weight and i did so well for myself and i was very happy! this was when my mars was conjunct my sun and saturn was in 12th house.

this january, I started going to theatre classes, something i'd been putting off for so long because i was just like i said, going in that vicious cycle. it was going really well for me and I'd learnt so much.

I don't know whats happened recently but I've just gotten so depressed and down! This June, I got into a conflict which didn't really lead to much but I just remember being so angry at myself! I felt that I didn't put my foot down and stand my ground! (mars in 12th natal) at this time i think saturn had JUST gone retro in my 12th house.

Since then I guess my head has been going round the idea and I've really come to notice, ok, I really am terrible at standing my ground! I don't know how to deal with it and it's causing me alot of internal stress and turmoil. I completely lack self confidence, I have trouble finishing what I start and I can't stand my ground. I can get mad because I've done it enough times but it never seems to be at the RIGHT time. it seems to be repressed and this causes me pain.

Meditation has helped. Being alone helps and being in nature helps. Meditation for me seems pretty natural and it isnt hard. I've been practicing it more and more lately as a ways of calming myself. That's one of the benefits of my mars I think.

One thing I've also noticed is that I 'pray' for things to sort themselves out. I think this might down to the fact that my mars is in a grand cross with mercury in 9th, neptune in 3rd and jupiter in 6th. I can't actually SORT them out and its such a DIFFICULT task to actually accumulate the energy to go and DO something.

Difficult aspect to say the least and i am having a really difficult time understanding it and trying to channel it properly...