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Author
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Topic: Using Natal Charts for Psychology
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socialgraffiti
Knowflake Posts: 228
From:
Registered: Jul 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 06:40 AM
  
Not sure where to put this but...
I read that Carl Jung was obsessed with the idea of astrology reflecting personality, and studied it with psychology.It made me wonder: Do you think using natal charts would be helpful for psychologists? *Assuming they didn't assume too much from a single aspect (e.g. "Oh sh*t, that person has Mars square Pluto...what if they get mad? Better'd drop them off the list!") IP: Logged |
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake Posts: 967
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted August 20, 2014 07:24 AM
I really do think so. I would use it to uncover certain behavioral patterns. But I would not advise a "copy/paste" approach.I would also use numerology. IP: Logged |
next to neptune
Knowflake Posts: 1959
From: The Moon
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 07:37 AM
Yes I think it would be a brilliant idea, if psychologist used astrology… I mean, most of them already know their patients day of birth, so they could might as well ask for the time of birth also… without the time of birth I think it's irrelevant, cause they would not get a full insight of the natal chart. I have studied astrology for so many years now, and I have only just come to realize some very important stuff about my own chart. If I was not a professional I could easily misunderstood something in another persons chart… So I think it is also very important not to make conclusions, but use astrology like a wise tool to open up people and help them. IP: Logged |
starmoon
Knowflake Posts: 1328
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted August 20, 2014 10:32 AM
Some already do and can be trained to use it, but the difference is that a patient would have to specifically search out a psychologist that used astrology as a basis for their advice. All psychologists are like doctors in the sense that they have a speciality.. some follow the teachings of Jung, some follow Maslow, some follow humanistic approaches, etc. It is actually important to know what a psychologist follows because their advice will reflect their own approach and techniques and recommendations. There is a school in California, I think, that offers a psychology/astrology degree and those psychologists would then be trained to use the birth chart or etc in helping patients. IP: Logged |
Mercurian Intellect
Knowflake Posts: 3713
From: Vulcan & Mercury. Yes, I was born on both planets, somehow.
Registered: Sep 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 03:03 PM
Of course it would help psychologists (according to us Astrology believers that is).Although, I believe Astrology is more of your deep-rooted, subconscious personality that isn't as easy to decipher (unless of course you analyze your natal chart) than your conscious personality (the personality to acquire from upbringing, culture, society, etc). But it will still be helpful nonetheless to a psychologist. I would like to add that I think they should learn a great deal about Astrology first though, before they can make advice for their clients when looking through the astrological filter. The therapists who study/use Astrology might be personally or even intellectually biased with a certain placement of their client and assume that it manifests as it is astrologically supposed to, when in reality, it won't manifest that exact way. They should be professionals at Psychology first and foremost, before they decide to integrate Astrology within their practices with their clients, and understanding of the psychology of a person so that they understand a good amount that Astrology doesn't always play out the same in everyone, due to outside influences and factors. (and that last part applies to both Therapists or actual Psychologists). I also think that they should be particularly discriminating of what they tell/advice they give to their clients about their problems according to their client's astrological chart, or drawing conclusions of their knowledge of Astrology with their client's chart (until they they know for sure that a placement in their client's chart is the reason for how their problem is playing out), so that they don't make the wrong judgement of how their client actually is or is going through internally. I thought the Psychology of Astrology is the main focus, and then predictions 2nd?
Oh well, the Psychology of Astrology is my only and main focus for studying Astrology. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be studying it if it was just about predictions. Funny thing is, I actually asked my old therapist if he leaned about Astrology before, and that he should lean and use it to help better understand his clients. But he said he don't believe in it, so oh well for him. IP: Logged |
Mercurian Intellect
Knowflake Posts: 3713
From: Vulcan & Mercury. Yes, I was born on both planets, somehow.
Registered: Sep 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by starmoon:
Some already do and can be trained to use it, but the difference is that a patient would have to specifically search out a psychologist that used astrology as a basis for their advice. All psychologists are like doctors in the sense that they have a speciality.. some follow the teachings of Jung, some follow Maslow, some follow humanistic approaches, etc. It is actually important to know what a psychologist follows because their advice will reflect their own approach and techniques and recommendations. There is a school in California, I think, that offers a psychology/astrology degree and those psychologists would then be trained to use the birth chart or etc in helping patients.
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 56595
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 20, 2014 03:12 PM
Yes, yes, yes! I have a Masters in Counseling. I don't like to do any form of counseling, even helping a friend, without charts.
I feel I am going blindly. With a chart, it is an entirely different story!
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http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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Comatoes
Knowflake Posts: 239
From:
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted August 20, 2014 03:40 PM
I partially agree and partially don't, mainly because most astrologers are biased (people in the medical field are trained not to be, you can't be a good scientist or doctor if you are prone to high bias), they don't have the scientific skill to look at things from a unbiased and technical way. I don't think Astrology should be turned into a scientific discipline. Astrology is not scientific and will never be, no one can really pin down astrology. Yes, it works for the most part, but other times there is other background forces at work. Other astrologers have done some test like Michel Gauquelin, but still these are what they are. The only astrologer I have found to be unbiased and great with merging Psychology and Astrology would be Liz Greene, Howard S., and other ones but for Liz Greene I like that she is a Virgo, and has mostly no bias when it comes to her clients. Another thing, most astrologers don't rectify the charts, in order to know truly if a chart is correct it needs to be rectified. I'm sure this is taught in the schools, so that should not be a problem. Lastly, IMO some astrologers can be damaged themselves and can project their own "crap" onto their clients. For example, an astrologer can have a ruthless Aries Father who had Mars square Moon and that astrologer will automatically not have the detachment to work with a client who comes in with a Mars square Moon, they will automatically put up a wall. So, yes I think Astrology and Psychology is great together, but the person practicing it, better be up to qualifications and totally professional. IP: Logged |
Brontex
Knowflake Posts: 250
From:
Registered: May 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 03:49 PM
I don't know---sounds like a slippery slope to me. Things like unconscious transference/countertransference could easily crop up. Therapist bias is a big enough issue without adding astrology to the mix. I'm not saying that it couldn't be useful. But at the end of the day its practical application can be boiled down to an (admittedly robust) system of overlapping stereotypes; e.g., Mars in Sagittarius is prone to such-and-such set of relationship issues. The application of these preconceived notions on the part of the therapist has a lot of potential to lead treatment down the wrong track. I'm a big fan of taking an interdisciplinary approach to pretty much everything. Sometimes though it's better just to keep things specialized.
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Edited to add:
Guess I'm too slow. Comatoes beat me to the punch (and expressed it much more eloquently). So pretty much just add a +1 to the above comment.
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Mercurian Intellect
Knowflake Posts: 3713
From: Vulcan & Mercury. Yes, I was born on both planets, somehow.
Registered: Sep 2013
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posted August 20, 2014 04:28 PM
@Comatoes (except the part when you mentioned that Astrology will never be a Science, as I do think it will eventually - once we learn how it truly, logically works, and are able to completely decipher the astrological influence in a person's psychology from the rest) and Brontex.IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
Knowflake Posts: 7827
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted August 20, 2014 04:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by socialgraffiti:
Not sure where to put this but...
I read that Carl Jung was obsessed with the idea of astrology reflecting personality, and studied it with psychology.It made me wonder: Do you think using natal charts would be helpful for psychologists? *Assuming they didn't assume too much from a single aspect (e.g. "Oh sh*t, that person has Mars square Pluto...what if they get mad? Better'd drop them off the list!")
It's half the reason I got into psychology. Astrology is an alternative form of psychology to me, I mean, how could it not be?
IP: Logged |
starmoon
Knowflake Posts: 1328
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted August 20, 2014 07:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
It's half the reason I got into psychology. Astrology is an alternative form of psychology to me, I mean, how could it not be?
Psychologists, not counselors or therapists, but actual psychologists are near or at the level of a medical doctor and some can prescribe low level medicines. Psychology is hugely different from astrology, they are in no way similar. Astrology and counselors with a degree/background in psychology would go well together, but a phd psychologist is more medical and astrology has no basis in science or medicine. Astrology deals with potential and possibilities and many psychologists deal with mental and psychological issues that are heritable and that is not even remotely astrological. IP: Logged |
infinite.nebula
Knowflake Posts: 175
From:
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted August 21, 2014 08:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
It's half the reason I got into psychology. Astrology is an alternative form of psychology to me, I mean, how could it not be?
Yeah I agree and Carl Jung was an open minded individual. Have you read Cosmos and Psyche by Richard Tarnas? If not I'm sure you would find it very interesting and informative.  ! IP: Logged |
socialgraffiti
Knowflake Posts: 228
From:
Registered: Jul 2013
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posted August 21, 2014 07:42 PM
Hmm, a lot of the responses state that the reason why they got into astrology was because of psychology. Although that may be true, IDK about you guys, but I know that there were some placements/aspects in my chart that I didn't really match with the description of. Only much later did I realize that other aspects/depositors/general chart pattern or dominant planets would alter the way the planet's energy would be expressed- and this was both with going deeper into astrology and my own personal realizations. I think there's a big difference between using astrology to learn about yourself, and between using it to delve into the minds of others, possibly strangers. I think for psychology in general, astrology would have to be used with a lot of caution, since energy can be expressed in many different ways, and there's still so much we don't know. IP: Logged | |
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