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Author Topic:   Sociopaths/overly egoistical - how to spot in the natal chart?
next to neptune
Knowflake

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posted August 22, 2014 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What in the chart would create a person that is just ice-cold(outwardly) and doesn't seem to care about other peoples feelings? Is overly egoistical and totally lacks sympathy?

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Leorpio
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posted August 22, 2014 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leorpio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lots of Earth or Air, also Fire can be this way as well. Though it really just is the unevolved version of these elements that will lead to this.

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TuxLuigi
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posted August 22, 2014 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TuxLuigi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose Water voids can make someone be very confused by emotions, making them more likely to be against expressing or thinking about them. I also suppose bad Pluto/Mars aspects, and/or a badly afflicted Moon, can give such results as well.
But it is still a matter of how the person was brought up, and in which environment. So you may want to look at houses too.

Well, for overly egoistical people, I suppose Sun afflictions should be important too.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted August 23, 2014 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From experience with others:

1. Someone I suspect is a sociopath had Mars sq. Pluto and an overabundance of fire planets.

2. Another narcissistic person I met who basically thought she was hot **** and better than everyone else had zero water planets, Gemini Mars opp. Pluto, and Gemini Venus in Retrograde. Yikes.

3. My mom has a histrionic [arrogant] personality. She has Moon in Leo, Mercury in Leo, Venus in Gemini.

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Swanlake
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posted August 23, 2014 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swanlake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sociopaths are characterised by their inability to feel empathy for others, so it's not an "ego" problem as such. Sociopaths usually have experienced severe trauma/abuse in their early life which caused them to shut down. They also had a lack of nurturing.
I had someone in my life who fit this category, he had Moon square Saturn.

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hannaramaa
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posted August 23, 2014 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lol do you know how many Sagittarius people describe themselves to me as sociopathic?! And it's hilarious because they are sooooo obviously not.

I almost want to say Moon trine Uranus or Moon trine Saturn? Only reason being I have those and when it comes to thinking of other feelings (mind you I also have an Aries stellium and Gemini placements) I really don't understand them naturally. You have to sit me down and paraphrase before I will understand what I did wrong. And most of the time it doesn't bother me to step on someone else for my own gain (but I can't be completely sociopathic because it depends on the situation)

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PixieJane
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posted August 23, 2014 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, my observation is that most people who say they're evil, sociopath, etc, really aren't...even when they try to be out of some misguided notion that such equals power and respect (or at least attention). It's the ones who advertise how good and moral they are that you have to watch out for.

Hardly anyone uses such terms correctly. I've even known a psychiatrist who labeled a kid with something that can't be diagnosed in someone until they're 18. Sometimes I do it, too, simply because I get used to communicating with others who frequently misuse these words (with the Humpty Dumpty philosophy that words mean whatever they want them to rather than what the dictionary says, so what can you do?). (Btw, for those curious, the difference between a psychopath and sociopath.) And sometimes even the dictionary & diagnosis can get confusing, such as the difference between histrionics and histrionic personality DO (that is to say, someone being histrionic and someone having a histrionic personality DO are typically two different things). (Speaking of which, calling someone histrionic/aggressive makes me think narcissistic personality DO, but that's just a guess.)

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PixieJane
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posted August 23, 2014 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I disagree with water voids being key. Those with too much water can become extremely self-absorbed to the point of caring about themselves and their own feelings above all others. (As should be obvious, that doesn't mean that therefore someone with a lot of water is this way.)

I'm still curious about the woman who tried to hire a hitman to kill her husband. She wanted it to be fast so that he didn't realize he was being killed. I'm betting she had some heavy water placements and figured if he didn't FEEL it then it didn't happen, and therefore she didn't have to feel guilty for it (and might even enjoy the sympathy, though she genuinely didn't want her husband to suffer, only to die).

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GemBird82
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posted August 23, 2014 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GemBird82     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Sagittarius... it's hilarious because they are sooooo obviously not.

quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
And I disagree with water voids being key.


------------------
~Il n'est rien de réel que le rêve et l'amour~

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Ami Anne
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posted August 23, 2014 09:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A very stressed Jupiter which is a major player in conscience.

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


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next to neptune
Knowflake

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posted August 23, 2014 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yeah, my observation is that most people who say they're evil, sociopath, etc, really aren't...even when they try to be out of some misguided notion that such equals power and respect (or at least attention). It's the ones who advertise how good and moral they are that you have to watch out for.

Hardly anyone uses such terms correctly. I've even known a psychiatrist who labeled a kid with something that can't be diagnosed in someone until they're 18. Sometimes I do it, too, simply because I get used to communicating with others who frequently misuse these words (with the Humpty Dumpty philosophy that words mean whatever they want them to rather than what the dictionary says, so what can you do?). (Btw, for those curious, the difference between a psychopath and sociopath.) And sometimes even the dictionary & diagnosis can get confusing, such as the difference between histrionics and histrionic personality DO (that is to say, someone being histrionic and someone having a histrionic personality DO are typically two different things). (Speaking of which, calling someone histrionic/aggressive makes me think narcissistic personality DO, but that's just a guess.)


The person I'm personally referring to in this topic is 99% sure a sociopath, and everything the person does is in its own interest, no one else's. All the descriptions about a sociopath fits this person precicely.
The person is 30 years old and is a libra sun(10th house), leo moon and venus(in 8th house)

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PixieJane
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posted August 23, 2014 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by next to neptune:
The person I'm personally referring to in this topic is 99% sure a sociopath, and everything the person does is in its own interest, no one else's. All the descriptions about a sociopath fits this person precicely

Including this description?

quote:
Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard and spontaneous rather than planned.

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bansheequeen
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posted August 24, 2014 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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next to neptune
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posted August 24, 2014 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Including this description?

[QUOTE]Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard and spontaneous rather than planned.


[/QUOTE]

No the person is more calculated and high educated. Outwardly the person seem fine I guess. But sociopaths/psychopaths can be very charming and strangers often like them, but once the sociopath forms a deeper bond with someone, that person can see right through them and how harmful/violent they can be. The person gets angry outbursts, but has put itself in a position where it is possible to have these outburst without further consequences. So the person is actually a potentially danger to society because the person can end up having a lot of influence. But on the way, the person crushes others, because the person likes power too much in my opinion.

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Gracha
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posted August 31, 2014 06:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gracha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yeah, my observation is that most people who say they're evil, sociopath, etc, really aren't...even when they try to be out of some misguided notion that such equals power and respect (or at least attention). It's the ones who advertise how good and moral they are that you have to watch out for.

Hardly anyone uses such terms correctly. I've even known a psychiatrist who labeled a kid with something that can't be diagnosed in someone until they're 18. Sometimes I do it, too, simply because I get used to communicating with others who frequently misuse these words (with the Humpty Dumpty philosophy that words mean whatever they want them to rather than what the dictionary says, so what can you do?). (Btw, for those curious, the difference between a psychopath and sociopath.) And sometimes even the dictionary & diagnosis can get confusing, such as the difference between histrionics and histrionic personality DO (that is to say, someone being histrionic and someone having a histrionic personality DO are typically two different things). (Speaking of which, calling someone histrionic/aggressive makes me think narcissistic personality DO, but that's just a guess.)


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Heartsong11
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posted September 06, 2014 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heartsong11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really don't wish it on anyone...dealing with a sociopath is one of the worst experiences I've been through.

I'm still trying to get an ex partner who I believe to be a sociopath out of my life.

He has Leo Sun opp Aqua Moon.
Pluto square sun, moon and mars.

He really doesn't know that he is a sociopath. There is no reasoning with him at all. He's losing friends lately and just can't see it's him that's the problem. Sad really.

I've recently met someone else who I think has sociopathic tendencies. He will tell lies very convincingly to get what he wants. When he is caught doing something wrong he will show no remorse for what he has done. He switches personality around different people...I know we all do this to an extent sometimes but this is an extreme switch. He is excellent at imitating others in order to fit in. When I first met him I thought I met someone who is really like me...same values, beliefs etc.
But this seems to be how he makes everyone feel.
He has a first house stellium in Capricorn with Moon conjunct Uranus.
Scorpio Mars conjunct Pluto
Moon opposite Jupiter
And jupiter conjunct chiron in Leo (maybe to do with social "pain")
Also he has an unaspected Sag Sun.

I really don't mean to offend anyone that has any of the above placements as I don't think these placements automatically mean one is a sociopath. I just believe that in the case of these people their charts reflect their sociopathic ways.

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Catalina
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posted September 06, 2014 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are many sociopaths in high places. The lack of conscience/empathy allows them to walk over the "less ambitious" people as if they were so many stepping stones and justify their inhumane actions by denigrating those who have scruples as "stupid" "weak" or "lazy" and thus deserving of being knifed in the back and trampled on their road to success.

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Catalina
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posted September 06, 2014 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He will tell lies very convincingly to get what he wants. When he is caught doing something wrong he will show no remorse for what he has done. He switches personality around different people...I know we all do this to an extent sometimes but this is an extreme switch. He is excellent at imitating others in order to fit in. When I first met him I thought I met someone who is really like me...same values, beliefs etc.
But this seems to be how he makes everyone feel.

Probably not everyone, there are always people whose instincts "flag" such characters. But often the sociopath will pretend to be a victim whenever their behaviour is pointed out by the more clear sighted. If they are REALLY good at it they can convince most of those around them that it is the one who sees through them that is the sociopath...

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hannaramaa
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posted September 07, 2014 02:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by next to neptune:
What in the chart would create a person that is just ice-cold(outwardly) and doesn't seem to care about other peoples feelings? Is overly egoistical and totally lacks sympathy?


I think having a lack of air, or having all fire in the main three ASC will help with that.

The two people I know who remind me of this kind of character had Sag ASC Aries Sun Sag Moon - of course he wasn't responsible for anything, right? And then a Leo Sun, Sag Moon. Also played victim and seemed to really believe he didn't do anything wrong. Neither moon seemed to be a deep thinker or to be able to see the bigger picture / underlying reason, as a side note.

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Randall
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posted September 09, 2014 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting topic.

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Liliya
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posted September 09, 2014 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liliya     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One sociopath I know very well is my ex:

Scorpio Sun/Mercury/Venus/Jupiter all conjunct
Capricorn Mars
Gemini Moon

Another is my friend: Aries Sun/Moon/Jupiter
Pisces Venus/Mercury

I really don't see a connection, not by sign anyway. Maybe it's the aspects more than anything. Scorpio ex also has a stellium in 8th house. I don't know Aries friends TOB.

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PixieJane
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posted September 09, 2014 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How did you become friends with a sociopath?

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing I'm including a description of sociopaths:

quote:
Key traits that sociopaths and psychopaths share include:

A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior

In addition to their commonalities, sociopaths and psychopaths also have their own unique behavioral characteristics as well.

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard and spontaneous rather than planned.


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Liliya
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posted September 09, 2014 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liliya     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
How did you become friends with a sociopath?

Is it for me?

We shared apartment I'm one of the only people who has patience for her. But I don't think her behavioral as extreme. She's very unti-social, but not a criminal.

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a_may_gemini
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posted September 30, 2014 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for a_may_gemini     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Overly egotistical? Definitely Fire. I'd say exalted Sun in Joy (Aries Sun in 9th house) would be a raging braggart. I've met several and they're all over the moon with themselves.

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LuckyStar
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posted September 30, 2014 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LuckyStar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:
[b] He will tell lies very convincingly to get what he wants. When he is caught doing something wrong he will show no remorse for what he has done. He switches personality around different people...I know we all do this to an extent sometimes but this is an extreme switch. He is excellent at imitating others in order to fit in. When I first met him I thought I met someone who is really like me...same values, beliefs etc.
But this seems to be how he makes everyone feel.

Probably not everyone, there are always people whose instincts "flag" such characters. But often the sociopath will pretend to be a victim whenever their behaviour is pointed out by the more clear sighted. If they are REALLY good at it they can convince most of those around them that it is the one who sees through them that is the sociopath...[/B]


Amazing! My experience too! I have researched sociopaths not to get caught again. We should create a list of sociopathic behaviors so everyone could feel more educated. Also, maybe tactics for removing such scum as well as handling them on the spot.

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