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Author Topic:   Could fire / air placements in a chart make one a sociopath?
hannaramaa
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posted December 04, 2014 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there isn't any water to balance it out?

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bansheequeen
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posted December 04, 2014 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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hannaramaa
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posted December 04, 2014 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why would you say earth if your experience was with a air / water person?

Water / Air doesn't surprise me. I think one needs an intellectual sign like Gemini, Sag, Aquarius, or Leo (maybe Capricorn) to be partly sociopathic. All of those signs (again except Capricorn) use their mind as a defense mechanism. Sag and Gemini have the duality while Leo / Aquarius can be detached. The fire element adds an ego to the personality, gives love to the 'self' imo.

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bansheequeen
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posted December 04, 2014 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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theunknown
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posted December 04, 2014 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theunknown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Most SOCIOPATHIC Person ive ever known is all water and air. A loooot of scoprio and libra placements. All inner planets are scorpio or libra. He only cared about himself. Relationships were a way to soothe his ego or to look good hinself. Abusive becaue it made him feel better. Likes causing physical pain. Enjoys causing mental and emotional distress.

I see earth as being more sociopathic than and air or fire, if we're going by elements.


Omg! My experiences exactly!

@OP: fire and air are compatible elements and make one light hearted.

I think water and air (Dick Chenney) is the most common combo for psychopaths

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Gemini Blues
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posted December 04, 2014 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theunknown:
Omg! My experiences exactly!

@OP: fire and air are compatible elements and make one light hearted.

I think water and air (Dick Chenney) is the most common combo for psychopaths


Gemini, Scorpio rising, Grand Water Trine, so I'm a water and air combo as well. And for the record, “I'm not a psychopath, I'm a highly functioning sociopath”

Sorry, it had to be said...

Anyway, Hitler was earth heavy, Stalin was Earth/Fire...

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theunknown
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posted December 04, 2014 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theunknown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Gemini, Scorpio rising, Grand Water Trine, so I'm a water and air combo as well. And for the record, “I'm not a psychopath, I'm a highly functioning sociopath”

Sorry, it had to be said...

Anyway, Hitler was earth heavy, Stalin was Earth/Fire...



Well tbh this is too general any way lol. I'm just pointing out that! I also think earth/air (my combo) can be overly logical and psychopathic

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Leorpio
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posted December 04, 2014 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leorpio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Why would you say earth if your experience was with a air / water person?

Water / Air doesn't surprise me. I think one needs an intellectual sign like Gemini, Sag, Aquarius, or Leo (maybe Capricorn) to be partly sociopathic. All of those signs (again except Capricorn) use their mind as a defense mechanism. Sag and Gemini have the duality while Leo / Aquarius can be detached. The fire element adds an ego to the personality, gives love to the 'self' imo.


Shouldn't we love ourselves? Isn't that the point? Lol what you equate with love of self as ego is not actually love but more rather the opposite of it. Ego hates itself, even if it wants to convince everyone else its in love with itself, for at the heart of all arrogance is insecurity. Leo has the biggest ego but also the biggest heart, and depending upon which section of oneself the Leo or leonine person is accessing that will indicate any level of sociopathy, for sociopathy is ego without compassion. Heart based Leos = the total opposite of sociopath. Head bases Leos = the total definition of sociopath. Leo teaches us to love ourselves for we can never do that enough, for it is within our hearts that the keys to our ascension lie.

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Odette
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posted December 04, 2014 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An empathy 'dysfunction' could be shown by the Moon placement and aspects.
In my opinion having the Moon in a water sign *and* afflicted.. like Moon in Cancer square Uranus for example - could lead to some pretty weird emotional behaviour, possibly sociopathy - or other things.

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PixieJane
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posted December 05, 2014 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why do people keep thinking water makes people sensitive and sweet?

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florence
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posted December 05, 2014 01:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was really surprised to find a cancer rising, moon in cancer(12th) in someones chart because I don't think of them as having empathy except on a certain level (on that level it made sense). But moon is square sun, square mercury-mars, sesqui Uranus as well as trine venus. Yep, grand water trine. 6 water planets. Even though unexpected, yes this prevailing sense of emotion but kind of detached from their person (and therefore v useful too)

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aquaguy91
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posted December 05, 2014 02:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Why do people keep thinking water makes people sensitive and sweet?

This. Me and one of my good friends have been rooming together and since we have been living together I have really been seeing his darkside. He has a cancer moon and a pisces ascendant and I have come to discover that he is one of the most selfish people I have ever met. It's always about him... Always... And one of the things I especially notice about him is he keeps score of everything. He will remember everything he has ever done for you but won't remember or appreciate all the things you have done for him. He is also constantly running people down and hardly has a nice thing to say about anybody. He is just a messed up person in general and even though we have been friends for over a decade I'm counting the days till he moves out. I love him to death but he is so emotionally draining to be around it's ridiculous. I am going to be putting him in the category of friends I can deal with in small doses and leave it at that. I have also seen this type of behavior from other water dominant people so i'm not sure why they are always viewed in a positive light.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted December 05, 2014 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Why do people keep thinking water makes people sensitive and sweet?

I think there's sometimes a misunderstanding that having Water means one will be soft, sentimental, and emotionally aware--empathetic. But when we look at how dynamic the Water signs are, that is simply not true. It's an assumption and a poorly made one. Each Water sign has a negative side, or 'shadow' energy, and good Water energy may not be expressed properly for various reasons. It could be having a planet like Venus in Scorpio, for example, where Venus is in its fall, so the better qualities of Scorpio may become suppressed or dysfunctional [since the energies don't mesh]. Other times, someone may have an elevated placement like Moon in Cancer, but the Moon may be afflicted OR the Moon's ruler may be afflicted, and emotionality becomes twisted and tormented, etc.

How Water energy--or really, how any element's energy is used depends on quite a lot: placements/configurations, aspects, chart ruler and planetary rulers, etc. I've found several undeveloped Water-ruled people to use Water energy negatively for various reasons. One of these people is a Cancer Sun and rising, and the other is Mars conj. Moon in Pisces.

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theunknown
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posted December 05, 2014 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theunknown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Why do people keep thinking water makes people sensitive and sweet?

I'm not sure about sweet but they are definitely sensitive.

Lots of serial killers experienced horrible childhood but are clearly more affected by childhood events than others.

I had a run down of all serial killers listed on wiki and many have Pisces Mars, scorpio and cap suns are pretty prominent too. I don't have the stats any more.


My guess is psychopathy probably relates to afflicted water placements with some uranus to add. Afflicted jupiter and perhaps some earth or air to keep things "efficient"

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next to neptune
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posted December 05, 2014 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know 2 libra suns who is potentially psychopaths.
Both have leo moon, and no water placements, or just 1 (pluto in scorpio)

I think the lack of water makes one more likely to be unsympathetic, and doesnt care about others feelings (though they understand them)

But having lots of water, but afflicted water is more likely to make one disturbed, or make someone wanting to be evil because of their problems (who almost always began in their childhood). And I think these people can be helped.

The problem with a lack of water and psychopathic tendencies, is that I don't think they can be helped, I think this is worse, because that's just who they are. They probably didn't even had a traumatic childhood, they just grew to become a psychopath, and no one would ever have guessed that.

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theunknown
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posted December 05, 2014 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theunknown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by next to neptune:
I know 2 libra suns who is potentially psychopaths.
Both have leo moon, and no water placements, or just 1 (pluto in scorpio)

I think the lack of water makes one more likely to be unsympathetic, and doesnt care about others feelings (though they understand them)

But having lots of water, but afflicted water is more likely to make one disturbed, or make someone wanting to be evil because of their problems (who almost always began in their childhood). And I think these people can be helped.

The problem with a lack of water and psychopathic tendencies, is that I don't think they can be helped, I think this is worse, because that's just who they are. They probably didn't even had a traumatic childhood, they just grew to become a psychopath, and no one would ever have guessed that.



Although I'd agree with you that lack of water might make one less empathetic, strong fire and air would just make one want to move on. Strong earth makes one want to focus on the material plane and since earth is slow, they take time to process.

Water-heavy makes a person wants to mull over a problem since he/she feels so deeply. Makes one good artist and writer but the bad side is the person can be very disturbed.

The psychological issues of lots of disturbing people are that they attach joy to seeing certain things in pain; there's also an element of possessiveness. Many serial killers revisit the site of their "actions" to commemorate themselves (I cant see a firey-airy-combo person do that).
Lots of those who have psychological wounds keep replaying the scenes in their head. I used to think they can be cured but the probability is low ....

Afflicted water placements make one able to intuit others' feelings but can detach from their intuition.

Low-water person wouldnt intuit anything so they come off as standoffish and cold and unable to have the superficial charm associated with psychopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist

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PixieJane
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posted December 05, 2014 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've noticed many water placements are concerned with their own feelings and how they personally feel rather than anyone else, and can become offended by anyone who acts as if her feelings aren't the most important feelings. I wouldn't put it past a poisoned water sign to secretly have someone close to her killed just so she could get sympathy for her loss (and thus her feelings becoming more important than everyone else).

Not to be construed as a rule of thumb about water signs.

Where it can get really strange (though I don't know of any charts of someone like this and I've looked hard for the charts of people who were, but I'm betting lots of water) is those who think as long as their victims don't feel hurt then it's okay, and one such woman tried to hire a hitman to kill her husband because she didn't want to hurt his feelings with a divorce! Being concerned with his feelings still made her a sociopath.

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Gracha
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posted December 05, 2014 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gracha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Most SOCIOPATHIC Person ive ever known is all water and air. A loooot of scoprio and libra placements. All inner planets are scorpio or libra. He only cared about himself. Relationships were a way to soothe his ego or to look good hinself. Abusive becaue it made him feel better. Likes causing physical pain. Enjoys causing mental and emotional distress.

I see earth as being more sociopathic than and air or fire, if we're going by elements.


I so agree with this. I knew a capricorn sun with virgo moon scorpio venus and libra mars. He's a narcissist most likely a sociopath. Uses charm in order to use people for his own gain. Very intelligent but miserable person. Also lacked empathy, his actions showed his true colors. I even caught him stealing and he acted like he was entitled. I left him alone after that.

I've been pondering if earth signs in particular capricorn and virgo show sociopathic tendencies.

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PixieJane
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posted December 05, 2014 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As to the actual question, about anything could make one a sociopath. Likewise, you'll find people unusually helpful and willing to sacrifice the self of all signs/placements as well.

About anyone could be a thief but the various modes of astrological energies will influence under what circumstances one would steal, how one would go about it, the rationalizations (if any) used, and other aspects. I expect that's true of sociopathy. And psychopathy (different from sociopathy). Likewise, the energies shape how one is charitable and such. But they don't determine who is a thief or a giver, nor who is a sociopath and who is not.

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bansheequeen
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posted December 05, 2014 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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next to neptune
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posted December 05, 2014 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theunknown:


[/b]



Although I'd agree with you that lack of water might make one less empathetic, strong fire and air would just make one want to move on. Strong earth makes one want to focus on the material plane and since earth is slow, they take time to process.

Water-heavy makes a person wants to mull over a problem since he/she feels so deeply. Makes one good artist and writer but the bad side is the person can be very disturbed.

The psychological issues of lots of disturbing people are that they attach joy to seeing certain things in pain; there's also an element of possessiveness. Many serial killers revisit the site of their "actions" to commemorate themselves (I cant see a firey-airy-combo person do that).
Lots of those who have psychological wounds keep replaying the scenes in their head. I used to think they can be cured but the probability is low ....

Afflicted water placements make one able to intuit others' feelings but can detach from their intuition.

Low-water person wouldnt intuit anything so they come off as standoffish and cold and unable to have the superficial charm associated with psychopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist

[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with you that a fire/air person would want to move on, but if there is something in their soul that is deeply disturbed (they love pain) they would probably just do whatever satisfy them or what brings them joy, and would not think about how it would destroy others, or they wouldn't care at all, not even think of it.
They could be egoistically in this way, but I think they need some strong 1st house placements or sun, to be that egoistically.

But I agree with you on the water thing. If they are so disturbed and can't detach from their own feelings that is wrong, then it would be hard to stop. But I do think they can get helped/cured if they get the right help in time, at least some of them.

But in general I also think that most psychopaths serial killers and other deeply disturbed people had a rough childhood, they grew up in poverty or they had a bad relationship with their parents/missed a parent or whatever. People like this always miss that "stability" and if they don't seem to ever get a more stable life, then what is they up to do? People like this must be very desperate deep down, and never got the right help.

And from natal chart to natal chart it always makes sense why some serious ill people chose the way they did, but it's very individual. I wish psychologist would use astrology, that could help so many people.

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bansheequeen
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posted December 05, 2014 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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