Author
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Topic: Unconditional Love?
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SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 05:24 PM
Do you believe in it? Do you think it`s possible? If someone showed you that kind of love, how would you know and how could you tell?Also list your Venus sign + aspects if you answer. ------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
PisceanDream unregistered
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posted December 28, 2014 05:33 PM
I have experienced it. Giving it... Once, I would say... 100% So yes, I believe in it.The second time, 85%... My first experience was unlike any other. It is definitely not a thing of rainbows and butterflies. In fact, it was hellish and tormenting. It was a love that knew no flaws or limits. At times, it was beautiful and miraculous and at others it was only a story of naivety and severe masochism. This person has destroyed me in the past, I was like clay in his hands... He would mold me in anyway he wished and I was always willing. No matter the blows he threw my way, I took them. Even as I engaged in tormenting him back, there was powerful love. It was truly something else. I would know it if I exposed myself for the mess that I am and someone still loved me. I would only know then, but I have only been this risky once and not fully even. With the person I discussed above... He loved me at my worst but I believe that I loved him all throughout. Venus in Pisces trine Jupiter, conjunct Sun, Mercury and Saturn, square Moon. IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 8505 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 28, 2014 05:48 PM
I used to say no, but now I say yes. As a clear example, I unconditionally love my parents. How do I know it's unconditional? Because I don't trust them, would never place myself in their power, know all their faults, and not only am I surprised that they haven't been killed yet but wouldn't hold it against anyone (who knew them well) who did kill them because they're just that terrible...yet I still love them, have compassion for them, and imagining them dying alone (which is all too easy to imagine) makes me sad. So if I can see that they're that bad and not only refuse to trust them but wouldn't dare trust them yet still feel love for them then that must be unconditional. The important part to note is that I still won't tolerate their abuse and crap. I wouldn't give them a kidney if either needed one (though that's in large part because of how they're destroying their own bodies all the time anyway, and when I say I'm surprised that they haven't been killed yet I mean that LITERALLY and wouldn't be surprised if it ever happens). I understand why many loathe them. There is nothing Stockholm about my love for them. It's just I see their flaws and act accordingly, yet still love them (while hating certain traits, yet also understanding how those traits came to be). But thank gods I didn't grow up on romance novels that would've prepped me for the "unconditional love" that I see as more like "Stockholm Syndrome" where one always stands by her beast of a man until he becomes the prince who will never leave her (yeah, right) or maybe I would practice the very unhealthy form of unconditional love after all (be it "my man" or anyone else). Given your wanting to know the Venus sign you probably only meant romantic relationships anyway (which I just now realized)...but I have had similar experience with an ex lover whom I love unconditionally and wish the very best for (just not with me) but also refuse to have anything to do with (mostly because I know what the other person would attempt), though maybe after 10 years I'd relent (friends only, and only if I thought the person had changed)...my love for that person is very similar to my parents, I feel it, but don't submit to it (and if I did submit to it then love would turn to rage and hate). Venus in Libra (Scorpio cusp) stellium (with Sun, mercury, Saturn, Pluto), sextile Sag stellium (moon, Mars + Eros, Uranus, Neptune). IP: Logged |
SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 05:57 PM
Hmm, did you find out the synasty between you two? Sounds like a Plutoian romance. Your Venus/Saturn must have played a part in you sticking it out. Correct?I have Venus in Pisces as well. ------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
PisceanDream unregistered
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posted December 28, 2014 05:58 PM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: ...but I have had similar experience with lovers, one of whom (an ex) I love unconditionally and wish the very best for (just not with me) but also refuse to have anything to do with (mostly because I know what the other person would attempt), though maybe after 10 years I'd relent (friends only)...my love for that person is very similar to my parents, I feel it, but don't submit to it (and if I did submit to it then love would turn to rage and hate).
Yes! Love the way you evoked this. My feelings and experience is very similar to this. I was young and foolish, for sure. He wasn't my boyfriend or anything, my best friend who had loved me romantically though I had only loved him deeply as best friend. In retrospect, I would say there was romance on my part but not in the way that he showed it. A strange unrequited love story that doesn't seem so unrequited, LOL. IP: Logged |
PisceanDream unregistered
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posted December 28, 2014 06:04 PM
quote: Originally posted by SirHorns: Hmm, did you find out the synasty between you two? Sounds like a Plutoian romance. Your Venus/Saturn must have played a part in you sticking it out. Correct?I have Venus in Pisces as well.
Pluto square Mars was the only Plutonian aspect we had. But he would technically have this with everyone of the same generation, so I usually don't take it as seriously. I think what did it was that his Mars conjuncted my Chiron-Vertex conjunction in Virgo in the 7th, which opposes my entire Pisces stellium in the 1st. His Karma is also conjunct my Venus, and his Saturn is conjunct my Venus. Pisces Venus is just... Sigh... The best and the worst. IP: Logged |
SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 06:08 PM
Any relationship can do, but yes I`m mainly curious as to if it`s possible to show it toward lovers.Also, I see, I expected water venuses to mainly have issue with this. Though if an air venus can have this flare up... Thanks for your post. ------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 06:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by PisceanDream: Pisces Venus is just... Sigh... The best and the worst.
Yeah, lord help you if your chart doesn't have anything to keep it in check.Could probs make a goldmine off of romance novels using it though. Bad Romance and Drama.
------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze unregistered
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posted December 28, 2014 06:25 PM
quote: Originally posted by PisceanDream:
Pisces Venus is just... Sigh... The best and the worst.
Maybe it's aspect to Moon (in your natal) also plays a role in this kind of thing? Or nah? Edit: Scratch that! lol Now that you're unregistered I guess you won't be answering. IP: Logged |
I'm so cappy Knowflake Posts: 9778 From: Death Star Registered: Nov 2012
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posted December 28, 2014 06:37 PM
Unconditional love...ahhh...who isn't dying to experience it? ME The concept tends to make me roll my eyes. When I see this term I see potential for abuse and exploitation. Even if it's loving a piece of $hit from afar it's still pathetic to me. Love should be earned imo (and I don't mean money or gifts or catering to every whim). I don't even expect my immediate family to love me cause I see no objective reason for it.Aquarius Venus conjunct Saturn, Saturn dominant OK, I guess I could love my dog unconditionally by accident ------------------ I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy. IP: Logged |
Virgo28 Knowflake Posts: 600 From: Mercury near the Sun(Florida) Registered: Nov 2013
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posted December 28, 2014 06:48 PM
I do I feel eternally in love with everything but I can't decide for anything. Venus trine Saturn Venus square Pluto Venus trine Valentine Venus conjunct MC
Amor conjunct ASC Amor trine Chiron Amor sextile Uranus Amor sextile Mercury ------------------ "If a man does not work passionately - even furiously - at being the best in the world at what he does, he fails his talent, his destiny, and his God."
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Vajra Knowflake Posts: 1737 From: Registered: Dec 2012
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posted December 28, 2014 07:29 PM
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SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 08:01 PM
The thing about children is, that a parent would only do those things if it was their child reciving it. Hence its technically a condition.Will say it`s the most selfless love you can see in everyday life though. Lovers are almost always held to some standard and our held up to expectations. No matter if they`re told about it or are even able to do it. ------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 8505 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 28, 2014 10:03 PM
^^It sounds like you think the only unconditional love is where it's so unconditional that everyone receives it with no thought to the self or to personal obligations. In no way that does describe me, nor do I want it to. Though I'd be curious what you thought of the movie The Invasion...I had to admit I found this scene compelling (though not convincing): "Carol, look at yourself. Is this who you are? Is this who you want to be? We were wrong to fight them. Remember our trip to Colorado? Remember the Aspen grove? Recall how peaceful it was. Remember what you said to me? You wondered how it would be if people could live like these trees... completely connected with each other, in harmony, as one." "You're not Ben!" "I'm not Ben, I'm more than Ben. Have you read the newspapers, have you watched the television? Do you know what is happening here, a world without war, without poverty, without murder, without rape, a world without suffering? Because in our world no one can hurt each other or exploit each other or try to destroy each other. Because in our world there is no other. You know it's right, Carol, that deep down you know that fighting us is fighting for all the wrong things." Angel (the spinoff of Buffy the Vampire Slayer) even did a story arc on what would happen if Jesus returned to Earth and there was only unconditional love for each other and especially (along with unquestioned obedience) Jesus (though they changed Jesus to Jasmine) and it was a compelling look on how dark such a system as promised by Revelations would actually be, pointless at best (though potentially an eternal childhood of being taken care of, never to grow up but to always feel loved), and as "Jesus" is overthrown and thus the Second Earth reverts back to the old everyone has to wonder if they did the right thing or not. If you've seen that arc I'd be curious what you thought of that one, too. Stephanie Meyer explored this as well (in The Host), though not as well as she could've (but still better than I expected). IP: Logged |
IV XXIV Knowflake Posts: 450 From: Registered: Mar 2014
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posted December 28, 2014 10:10 PM
I do believe in unconditional love. I do think it's possible. I have loved my mother unconditionally and I know she loved me unconditionally, I believe my best friends and I love each other unconditionally. How would I know it/how could I tell? Your willingness to do anything I need done. Not judging me for things I do, f*ck up, or tell you. Taking my mood swings with ease. Allowing me freedom to be myself and make my own mistakes, but helping me clean up my mistakes. Just overall honesty, whether that'll hurt me or not, reliability/dependability/loyalty to me, and and overall helpful attitude towards me. Venus in Aries in the 12th quintile Neptune + Uranus trine Mars + Pluto opposite Jupiter sextile MC sesquiquadrature chiron semi-square AC
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whaaat Knowflake Posts: 599 From: Portland, MA,U.S Registered: Jun 2013
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posted December 28, 2014 10:13 PM
I know I'm capable of it, so I definitely believe in it. IP: Logged |
SirHorns Knowflake Posts: 66 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted December 29, 2014 01:30 AM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: ^^It sounds like you think the only unconditional love is where it's so unconditional that everyone receives it with no thought to the self or to personal obligations. In no way that does describe me, nor do I want it to.
I see. So "tough love" would be compatiable with unconditional without conflict, correct? What is your version of unconditional love? How would you describe it? ------------------ Sacred Horns IP: Logged |
Jo B unregistered
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posted December 29, 2014 01:42 AM
To be honest I think loving unconditionally is the only way one can genuinely love. Whoever says to themselves or their "loved" ones: "I will love you but ONLY if you do this/that"? That's just ridiculous, that's not love, that's manipulation/control. IP: Logged |
whaaat Knowflake Posts: 599 From: Portland, MA,U.S Registered: Jun 2013
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posted December 29, 2014 03:46 AM
quote: Originally posted by Jo B: To be honest I think loving unconditionally is the only way one can genuinely love. Whoever says to themselves or their "loved" ones: "I will love you but ONLY if you do this/that"? That's just ridiculous, that's not love, that's manipulation/control.
It is said that love is never without pain because once you love someone, you love them for the good and the bad. Love to me is almost like a religious experience... You see something in someone, and they inspire you to place their needs above your needs, go against your base animal instincts (which is where the very idea of 'conditions' ends).
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charlie Knowflake Posts: 3986 From: Registered: Jun 2012
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posted December 29, 2014 04:03 AM
I don't think there is such a thing as "unconditional love" because I don't think there is a "God" in feelings. You may interpret that as you wish.IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 8505 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 29, 2014 05:26 AM
quote: Originally posted by SirHorns: I see. So "tough love" would be compatiable with unconditional without conflict, correct?
Technically, yes, it is compatible. That said, I wanted to say for clarity that I despise "tough love" boot camps for kids and would see them prohibited if I could, and my parenting style is more authoritative as opposed to authoritarian (which is sometimes described as "tough love"). You should also note that I'm not inclined to think in dichotomies or "all or nothing" thinking (and therefore choosing to put the needs of one above another is much more complex with me as I see everything as connected rather than "either/or" of so many other people, nor must there be a "winner" and a "loser" in which one person must be ready to sacrifice self-love so that the other person can gain love--hope that's clear enough but it's probably not, at least I put effort in trying to be clear). Likewise, I don't necessarily see "unconditional love" as a good thing...in toxic forms it can be Stockholm Syndrome that accept all sorts of abuse or enable destructive patterns that hurt the one loved as well as one's self, it can even lead to women who help men abduct women for rape, keep slaves, or even give up her children for his vile perversions because she "loves him so" as she thinks she's supposed to. And I think some people promote "unconditional love" in order to shape them into people that can be taken advantage of (or are tricked into promoting it by those who are that way). VERY important: feelings and actions are different things to me. I can feel something but not act on it because I don't just feel, I also THINK, and allowing the Thinker to drive rather than the Feeler I find my life (and thus my feelings) are better off for it. Likewise I have many feelings and I choose which ones to act on and which ones not to. That means I can love someone but still put my foot down, or in an extreme case not allow them into my life (likewise I can be nice and polite to someone I loathe and want nothing to do with yet am forced to interact with--perhaps out of love for someone else). As for my unconditional love for my parents (which I described in my first post as an example of unconditional love) I don't see that as a good or bad thing, it simply is and I'm aware of it. I still love myself, however, and refuse to be a victim or a martyr, but when Granny's house passes to me (instead of Mom) I'm going to allow Mom to live there (and even have the master bedroom were I to move back in myself), but I'm not going to let her pull her dirty tricks on the family in her quest for revenge, but I still don't want to see her on the streets or miserable if I can help it (without martyring myself). Furthermore, Mom would consider me pathetic if she knew I loved her and try to use it against me which is why I don't go out of my way to let her know (I try to pass it off as family loyalty that's wary of her tricks which she can grudgingly respect and even appreciate) and likewise Dad would roll his eyes...I laugh because he's suspicious of all my gifts and he once got scared I was planning to murder him when I asked him if he wanted to go target shooting with me. IP: Logged |
florence Knowflake Posts: 1281 From: Registered: Jun 2012
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posted December 29, 2014 08:09 AM
Yes, I believe in it. I have to draw in some dotted lines where I think it is just to remind myself it's really past that level, though.(Edited) I have felt for others but not as a fixed and defined thing I can find again easily but something organic, humming coming in and out of focus. Which isn't to say it isn't unconditional but I just think it doesn't easily slot into my thinking. I feel from others when I feel I can do anything and still be loved. Which is hard to imagine with Venus sq Saturn. Venus in Taurus, h7 Venus square Saturn Venus sesq pluto And hey you helped me find another small aspect Venus and Jupiter have a symbol of an upside down table!
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YellowGerbera Knowflake Posts: 839 From: Registered: Jul 2014
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posted December 29, 2014 01:19 PM
Aww! Upside down table.. So cute! HeheI believe in unconditional love but I don't think we can define it because each of us express love in many different ways, and hence unconditional love will all be unique. It's unconditional with that particular person, in that particular relationship, in that time in your life, etc... I have Pluto conjunct Vesta natally. My love is intense and sacrificing for love comes naturally to me. I want to do everything for my man, and I'll do whatever it takes to make him happy. His Pluto conjuncts my Pluto too so talk about deep deep emotional connections! He has Uranus conjunct Vesta natally and my Uranus and Asc conjunct to this. So we got unstable situation going on (restarting career, long distance), I feel like we can end at any moment, but none of us are wanting to end us because we love each other very deeply. The physical difficulties of the material world can't stop us from continuing this relationship (I hope at least!) As for Venus aspects, I have: - Venus/Mars conjunction in Aries 4H which trines my Asc/Uranus conjunction. - Venus semisquare Sun/Moon/Mercury stellium in Pisces 3H - Venus quintile Jupiter in Aquarius 2H - Venus sesquisquare Saturn in Scorpio 12H IP: Logged |
Kannon McAfee Knowflake Posts: 1924 From: Portland, OR - USA Registered: Oct 2011
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posted December 29, 2014 02:25 PM
quote: Originally posted by SirHorns: Do you believe in it? Do you think it`s possible? If someone showed you that kind of love, how would you know and how could you tell?Also list your Venus sign + aspects if you answer.
Of course, it is possible. But this is something we practice one person at a time and evolve into. Many people are learning it slowly, but are also failing at it one person at a time. Unconditional Love doesn't necessarily look glorious and romantic. We learn it as an attitude and until we do, we learn the actions that can be taken to form those attitudes. We know and learn unconditional love by understanding it from its Singular Divine Source, not from hoping to get it from humans. However, for many people humans are the vehicle through which they see it is possible. One of the most poisonous ideas I can point to is the notion that you cannot know unconditional love in this world. Okay, so what's your point in being here? That is the very spiritual powerhouse of creation. Love is power - not conditional love. Its the difference between a perpetual motion machine (unconditional love) and one that stops frequently (conditions kick in). It doesn't matter if you experience it from humans or only from the Divine Source. Truth is, we decide to love unconditionally, then deal with our human barbs, foibles, limitations as we are challenged to follow through. If we start with an affirmation of our own worth from the Singular Source of Love, then we know we can and will follow through. If we're only 'in' as far as we 'get back' what we expect, then we still don't understand what 'unconditional' means. Has nothing to do with astrology. Has everything to do with our spiritual evolution and what we are challenged in an earth/material dimension to become. Its the aim of mastery. I was born with Venus in Taurus, widely conjunct Mars, conjunct/parallel Mercury, opp Neptune, but these did not themselves give birth to my attitudes on this topic. They were observed, learned, experienced through real encounters with the universe and adapted intentionally. Birth chart: http://kannonmcafee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/kannon-validated-birth-chart.gif ------------------ Professional astrology - Expert rectification http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/ Complete desriptions of all Rising Signs. celebrity examples: https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/rising-signs-2/ IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 8505 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 30, 2014 12:23 AM
What I'm sure won't happen is "unconditional love cards." Can you imagine? I'd rather love you in Hell than be happy in Heaven. Not to say there wouldn't be a niche market for cards like that but I don't see one big enough market for businesses to target. And I expect the number of those who would appreciate receiving such cards would be even fewer than those who would want to send one as a sign of their selfless, unconditional love. IP: Logged | |