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Author Topic:   Bruce Jenner (gender reassignment)
ikja
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posted January 31, 2015 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not too sure where to post about this, but I was just wondering whether his decision to change gender can be attributed to planetary aspects in his natal or progressed charts?

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MineAgain
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posted January 31, 2015 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MineAgain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just thinking about that!

However, we shouldn't rely on tabloids when it comes to such sensitive topic. To this day, it's still a "rumor" and Bruce hasn't confirmed anthing (yet).

If the rumors are true, I think it took him so long because of his obvious conservative background. He seems the most "conservative" of the bunch and is quite old fashioned. He probably was inhibited, especially back when this sort of subject was "taboo". He probably feels a bit more comfortable with it now.

I wonder what his (her) name is going to be when/if he chooses to go through with this procedure. I hope it won't start with a K.

It must be hard for Kendall and Kylie to see their dad morph into a female though. It will feel as though a part of them is gone. The paternal part.

Mason, Penelope and North won't understand what happened to grandpa Bruce. I'm sure they'll wonder where he's disappeared to.

Anyway, I wish the guy all the best!

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ikja
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posted January 31, 2015 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with what you said about not relying on tabloids about sensitive issues like this. As a natural researcher, I did search a few online newspapers to find out a little bit more before I posted.

There was one article that pushed me to believe the 'rumour' a little bit more because it used quotes from quite a few sources who are/were close to him. I do acknowledge that these may have been sensationalised to some extent too though - www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/bruce-jenner-transitioning-woman-live-5075991

So, it got me thinking a little bit more.
I would post his chart, but I am not on my phone atm. Maybe someone who is quite experienced with aspects could discuss this a little more.

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starmoon
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posted January 31, 2015 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starmoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this family is so crazy it's probably all a stunt to gain more money and endoresements

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Stawr
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posted January 31, 2015 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was wondering if that was true.

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sxorpia
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posted January 31, 2015 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sxorpia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good luck to him. I believe it's been known for quite some time now. why does astro.com give a rectified birth time, as well as the original one if the original is rated AA from BC in hand?

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CupOfDavid
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posted January 31, 2015 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CupOfDavid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starmoon:
this family is so crazy it's probably all a stunt to gain more money and endoresements

Yes, Jenner's transition is a publicity stunt.

Transgender people are not gimmicks. Do you know what kind of emotional journey it takes to go through such a process? And I'm sure the publicity hasn't made it any easier for her either.

On one hand, it saddens me to read what people have said about Jenner's transition; but on the other hand, I'm happy for her and hope that Jenner will be able to educate those who have never been exposed to a transgender person before.

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ikja
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posted January 31, 2015 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too am quite shocked that he has had to endure all of this for 60+ years
I also feel sorry for Kris Jenner, because when I have watched the Kardashian shows; she strikes me as someone who likes to have control and someone who also loved Bruce Jenner. I can imagine that this isn't easy for her either.
That being said, he was unhappy in the relationship for quite some time as they separated; and I wonder if his desire to be transgender played a large part in the relationship's demise.

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whaaat
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posted January 31, 2015 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whaaat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He didn't, tabloids are just being tabloids.

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MineAgain
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posted January 31, 2015 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MineAgain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the reality show rumor is true, I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to go through such procedure only to generate publicity and money. It's too drastic of a decision.

That said, I am sure that Kris Jenner is happy about the media coverage.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted January 31, 2015 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MineAgain:
I was just thinking about that!

However, we shouldn't rely on tabloids when it comes to such sensitive topic. To this day, it's still a "rumor" and Bruce hasn't confirmed anthing (yet).


I agree -- and thank you. Why can't we wait until he makes the announcement on his terms?

quote:
Originally posted by CupOfDavid:

Transgender people are not gimmicks. Do you know what kind of emotional journey it takes to go through such a process? And I'm sure the publicity hasn't made it any easier for her either.

On one hand, it saddens me to read what people have said about Jenner's transition; but on the other hand, I'm happy for her and hope that Jenner will be able to educate those who have never been exposed to a transgender person before.


Thank you!


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Gemini Blues
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posted January 31, 2015 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I either roll a natural 20 or fail and roll a 1. In either case, I disbelieve.

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ikja
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posted February 01, 2015 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So back to my original question.

I'm assuming that the consensus is that an unhappiness with one's gender cannot be attributed to planetary placements?

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ikja
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posted February 01, 2015 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His natal chart - TOB unknown

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ikja
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posted February 01, 2015 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ikja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His progressed chart (for today)

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PixieJane
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posted February 01, 2015 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ikja:
So back to my original question.

I'm assuming that the consensus is that an unhappiness with one's gender cannot be attributed to planetary placements?


Probably not. But the only way to really know is to find several trangenders and then somehow find those born in the same maternity ward (preferably same hour) and those in other hospitals that would have the same houses (in this computerized age this is a possibility...though much easier said than done). I would be curious if commonalities could be found, however.

Complicating it is that there are many types of transgenders, that is motivations (some men, for example, are attracted to being female as they feel it would free them from male pressures of repressing their emotions while others find the idea of having power over men via feminine charms appealing, and there are other reasons besides, and different motivations suggest different astrological reasons). And the ones who feel the need to "cross over" via surgery and other radical means are relatively rare among them (but as crossing over becomes easier then more might think it's worth it--heck, make it as easy as a retroviral injection and waiting a few days as the body changes gender that can then be reversed the same way might actually make it a fad among many people!). It might be interesting to compare them to those who reject the very concept of gender, though that's technically more like the opposite of transgendered (as transgendered says gender is incredibly relevant) but OTOH it might tie into dissatisfaction with one's own gender.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted February 01, 2015 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bruce Jenner's birth certificate was reported to astrodatabank [6:16 AM, giving an Asc of 2SCO48, conjunct Sun 4SCO42].
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Jenner,_Bruce

Issac Starkman has rectified this chart to 28* Libra, making it square both Moon and Jupiter. Sun in 1st about 6 degrees from Asc.


I have given some attention to validating a chart for him, but so far have been unsuccessful.

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Ami Anne
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posted February 01, 2015 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow Was just gonna say he looks like a Libra ASC. Yea me

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Gabby
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posted February 02, 2015 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, is this real?

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hannaramaa
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posted February 02, 2015 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think so, I read that he's making a documentary on it. And Kim was quoted in an interview saying the family supports him 100% but didn't specify what they were supporting.

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Gabby
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posted February 03, 2015 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I think so, I read that he's making a documentary on it. And Kim was quoted in an interview saying the family supports him 100% but didn't specify what they were supporting.

That's just....wow!??!

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Gabby
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posted February 03, 2015 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My daughter goes to school with several kids that are wanting to have sex changes, one in high school has already started this process, he is now a she.

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PixieJane
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posted February 03, 2015 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
My daughter goes to school with several kids that are wanting to have sex changes, one in high school has already started this process, he is now a she.

Several?

Gods, I'd love for that anomaly to be examined. Hope they're not doing it for the same reason gender bending was so popular in the 80s (which was rebellion/independence). But I haven't heard of anything like that (as in it sounding like a fad) in any school yet (and the rare and typically lone individual that does tends to be targets of hatred, even in California) so I'd guess there was something local there which is what makes me so curious.

If there's a lot of pollution that could interfere with developing fetuses (biological factors that can alter the developing brain to not match the developing body among other factors have been reported in some journals on why gender dysphoria comes out, and then at least some are actually born intersex which doctors barbarically alter surgically into one gender but has been known to leave gender dysphoria behind as a lifelong condition) then that might explain it but if any have gone through the process then it's obviously a community with money (and they tend not to have such problems). It could conceivably be the side effect of insufficiently tested meds that affect the pregnant or the developing brains of kids (very popular among the wealthy) but if that were the case then I'd think it would be a lot more widespread (and you know the media would be short stroking it if it were). Oh! Communities with a lot of people taking psyche meds and the like found that traces of the meds were getting into the local water supply as they got flushed and cycled through, though I forget the details (and have also been found to affect fish).

It could be that your community is almost uniquely accepting (or extremely large, if say a thousand kids went to the same school I could see a half dozen such people there easily, though normally they wouldn't identify themselves).

I just looked up stats on numbers but about everyone reputable agree that there are no reliable numbers as of yet (other than those who go through treatment which is extremely difficult to do in most places given all the hoops you have to jump through--save maybe Thailand, or Mexico but gods help the ones who go to Mexico from the horror stories I've heard of those botched surgeries and sounds like it may be technically illegal--and then the money as well as a typically long and rough transitioning...though that doesn't count the black market services that exist).

I'd be curious if their local GSA or GLSEN would have to say on it (and if there are that many transsexuals or even transgendered kids there then surely they have one, and typically anyone who transitions has to talk it out with a psychiatrist or some such first--unless they've changed that requirement in the last few years). If there is no such group then it could be many kids who CLAIM to be aren't, they're just showing support and solidarity to their transgendered friends so they feel supported and not appear so vulnerable in an unsympathetic community, which is sweet of them.

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Gabby
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posted May 21, 2015 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you, I think it's a fad and most are not truly transgender. There was one popular kid who started it and has went all the way with the change but in the process many others followed or claimed to feel non-gender. They have not followed through but their are many lesbian girls, A LOT...I think they feel if they are with girls they can maintain their virginity.
Yes they are a group of kids, about 2000 in the high school that all went to school together from childhood.

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Odette
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posted May 22, 2015 12:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently came across someone on youtube who is a transgender individual. It's pretty awesome to see this person's transformation through their videos.. mainly because they seem so down-to-earth and 'normal' (for lack of a better word).
I like that they are blowing the preconceptions out of the water.

I didn't know all that much about gender reassignment, before I came across this channel... I now have a more informed, and positive perspective on it.

I know that this person is a Scorpio from one of their videos. This is interesting, since Scorpio is the sign associated with -major- life changes, sex, death/re-birth, and personal transformation.
It's also interesting because they are a *twin*.
As far as I understand, their twin sibling feels comfortable being the gender they were both born as (which is female).

There's a lot of debate about identical twins in astrology... Many are of the opinion that - the existence of twins, who are different individuals, with different personalities.. is proof - that astrology is not the "whole" story... that there are several other psychological and environmental factors to take into account.

I don't know their natal chart, but it would be interesting to have a look at it.
They seem open minded and friendly... so maybe they would be cool with having their chart posted here.
(edit: I messaged them!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4RdykNnFz8

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