posted April 11, 2015 12:35 PM            

It's all in there.

Thank you, my dear Friend.

I have learned the wisdom of not explaining myself to people who are committed to misunderstanding me

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posted April 11, 2015 12:39 PM            

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posted April 11, 2015 02:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by coteau:

Also madonna claims shes an aquarius ascendant, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHSdnS8JDT4
soo you can't say she's a 12th house sun either.

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I'm torn about this because, on one hand, her Virgo Rising chart seems to fit her personality like a freaking glove. On the other hand, I can see her being an Aquarius Rising. All of the official birth times I've seen for her have said 7:05 AM and no one's ever really provided an Aquarius Rising chart with a given birth time. They've just gone by that famous interview.

I lean more so toward her being a Virgo Rising. I could be wrong, but it's just what my gut tells me.

But, it's very cool that she's into astrology. You never know what celebrities study their birth charts.

posted April 11, 2015 02:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
I understand that difference. I know extroversion does not automatically equal outgoing and introversion does not automatically equal shy. But, there is a shade of gray. You're strictly dividing people into "introvert" and "extrovert" categories when it's not always that simple.

Like I said, on my Myers Briggs test, I've always been about 51 percent extrovert and 49 percent introvert. So, they're neck and neck, basically. Therefore, someone can have a need to re-charge and be alone and all of that while also enjoying or being skilled at being sociable. I think I'm good at both sides. We've divided the world up too long into introverts and extroverts because it makes us feel safe to be to label people like that.

If a 12th House person says they're extrovert, why can't they be? Because it's against the astrological rules for them to be extroverted? If you go by Myers-Briggs, I'm ENFJ. Yet, I have a 12th House stellium and yes, my birth time is correct. I own my birth certificate.

My only problem is you believing that someone has "got themselves wrong" or something by saying that about themselves. It's quite condescending. We don't get to decide people's personalities for them, no matter what their charts are.

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👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

posted April 11, 2015 02:20 PM            

For example, I do not see how a true 12th house Moon( more than 10 degrees from the ASC) could be extroverted in putting his feelings out there.

I don't see how a true 12th house venus could put her love out there in an easy, extroverted manner.

You can't look at George Bush, Putin or Madonna and form conclusions because you don't live with them.

You don't know them intimately. Many people do not face themselves, as well, as one can see if one just looks around lol

If people have true 12th house planets and the chart time is right, the chart will tell you.

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posted April 11, 2015 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the89freespirit:

My only problem is you believing that someone has "got themselves wrong" or something by saying that about themselves. It's quite condescending. We don't get to decide people's personalities for them, no matter what their charts are.

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-or-

posted April 11, 2015 02:42 PM            

EXACTLY!

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posted April 11, 2015 02:49 PM            

As the89freespirit said:

quote:

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We don't get to decide people's personalities for them, no matter what their charts are.

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posted April 11, 2015 02:57 PM            

People are not trying to. It is defense mechanisms. If someone has emotional issues, it is REALLY defense mechanisms.

These came about as a result of having to block feelings and thoughts.

Hence, a person is suffering and does not KNOW who she/he is and does not know that he does not know.

Usually, he will have uncomfortable symptoms such as eating issues, migraines, stomach issues, depression, anxiety, social anxiety etc, etc, etc: common issues in our current society.

Hence, an astrologer can help him IF he wants help.

He can face himself because his chart is his BLUEPRINT given by God as a map of him in this life journey.

Hence, if people want to deny, obfuscate etc, I have no time for them lol

They need someone who will co-sign their BS

I am not judging, even though it sounds like I am.

The ONLY way to recover from any of the above "symptoms"/issues is to FACE ONESELF.

That is what Jung says and what I believe. I have Jung conjunct the Sun.

I don't have the time, energy or desire to deal with people who will not/choose not to face who they are because my time is valuable.

My life energy is valuable.

I have a purpose and that is to serve people and if they do not want to face the truth of their charts, they cannot heal and I cannot serve them imo.

They need to find someone who will tell them what they want to hear to keep up their denial.

That is not my life path or purpose.

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posted April 11, 2015 03:03 PM            

That seems to fit more with what I mean.

posted April 11, 2015 03:32 PM            

My Venus in my 12th.
- I don't "fear" love or "fear" giving my love.
- I liked being single as much as I like being in love.
- When in love, I give of myself.
- I'm private about my love
This I will explain.

By private, I mean that I rarely share my romantic feelings of love towards another person with my family and many of my friends. I keep all of that to myself and with the person I'm with. It's rare that I voice to anyone else my excitement, problems, or anxiety. That stays with me.
The REASON that I do this is because let's say that I'm having trouble with my love life. Like if I'm single and lonely. I wouldn't share any of that. Or if I have problems in my relationship I won't share that either except POSSIBLY with very few that I trust. Oh yeah, the reason.
When I spend time with my family and friends, I want it to be about my relationships with them. I don't want to be asked 5 million questions about it, if I'm ok, what did she say, etc etc. Or if I were single and lonely. My family would absolutely (and has) try to set me up with single people that they know and think are nice. I wouldn't want that. It REALLY annoyed me.
What's between her and I is between us. When I spend time with family, it's about them. I want my love for my family to be whole, and pure, and about them and I. Not about my other relationships. I'm typically this way about friendships too. If I have issues with someone at work. I don't go venting to my family. It has nothing to do with them and I can handle things myself. If I'm having any kind of issues in my love life, then spending time with them allows me an escape. If they knew, they'd be worried and bugging me about it.
When I got divorced, people knew obviously but I didn't give details. I didn't want tons of questions every time I went to spend time with someone. I was fine. I wanted to spend time with them and be happy and forget about it. It was done and behind. It was time to move ahead and bury that. I was ready. Telling people details could have slowed me down in that process. They may have meant well and just been showing concern, but I didn't need concern. I needed a clear path to move on with.

Hold in contrast how many SP posts AG and Ami have made vs me expressing my issues or what bugs me, or what I have a problem with.
I handle most of my business myself. Pretty much all of it.

THAT... is why I've always been private about it.(Well... the gist of it anyway)
I feel that the 12th works in this way.
With my Mercury there, it's my thoughts. I don't share a lot of them because I don't want them interfering with my relationships. I don't want the focus to be about my thoughts, unless it involves them.

posted April 11, 2015 03:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
How do you know someone has emotional issues? Are you in their head, Ami? No you aren't. How can you even conclude such things from a placement, a birth chart? You can't. Are you aware of how incredibly dense that is? LOL! You aren't judging, when aren't you judging people? I'm flabbergasted by your ignorance. I've never in my 22 years experienced a more prejudiced individual. Astrology is not The Bible. Stop treating it that way. It is not 100%. You use and abuse astrology the same way you do with people here. How about you face yourself first. Fix your onslaught of personal problems first.

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Someone has emotional issues if they are depressed, overweight, an addict, lonely, social anxiety, nervous stomach issues, migraines and many of the things we all struggle with.

(There could be some physical reasons for these, but that is not in my domain to ascertain, although a medical astrologer could do this imo)

The above issues are symptoms of a Deeper root. They don't happen for no reason.

A person can face them or deny them but *I* am not the person to come to if you want me to help you stay in denial.

That is not my path.

I have a path and looking at the charts in a Jung way is my path.

I am not right for everyone. For those people, find someone else

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posted April 11, 2015 04:11 PM            

It's perfectly fine to toss around opinions and thoughts. It's also just as fine to disagree with each other. But, as long as we keep turning this into a defensive contest of who's right and who's wrong, nothing's EVER going to get accomplished.

No one's going to learn, no one's going to grow, no one's going to be enlightened or empowered because we're not approaching each other on an equal playing field. We're making it a process of one-upping each other and "proving" who's right or not. We're making it a game of who knows more or who has the factual evidence and all of this ridiculousness. Who cares? No one's opinion is that important, no matter how "entitled" you are to it.

Is this not a community of people who share the same belief system? I don't know why we have to get so defensive and jump on each other all the time. We're all studying the same school of thought, are we not? Why can't we be more supportive of or tolerant of each other's ideas or viewpoints, instead of proclaiming "No, that's not right! I know more than you know! You've got this all wrong!" You still have a tremendous amount to learn, like everyone else. So, swallow some humble pie, please.

I have nothing else to say on this topic. I've said it, multiple times, and believe I've effectively made my point. Some people agreed, some people didn't. Oh, well. It's the end of the discussion, on my end, because I'm not at all interested in speaking to brick walls. Because that's not a real conversation.

posted April 11, 2015 04:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
How do you know someone has emotional issues? Are you in their head, Ami? No you aren't. How can you even conclude such things from a placement, a birth chart?

...

You can't. Are you aware of how incredibly dense that is? LOL! You aren't judging, when aren't you judging people? I'm flabbergasted by your ignorance. I've never in my 22 years ...

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Just out of curiosity...

If you don't subscribe to astrology, why participate in an astrology forum?

*puzzled*

posted April 11, 2015 04:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
What gets me is how people want to have it both ways.They say they are interested in astrology and believe it to be an accurate tool to predict human nature and events. But at the same time they say "you can't assume things or make judgements on people based on astrology". Those mindsets are in direct contradiction. So which is it? Does astrology work or not? Is it accurate or inaccurate? It can't be reliable and unreliable at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

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YES

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posted April 11, 2015 04:18 PM            

If you don't subscribe to astrology, why participate in an astrology forum?

People want to pick and choose which placements they will accept about themselves

That doesn't work. We ALL have good and bad. We all have ease and struggles. We ALL have placements of pain. We ALL are a boss, in some area(s)

Do you want to KNOW it or DENY it? It is that simple

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posted April 11, 2015 04:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Astrology is a tool used for understanding trends in people and in world/everyday events. If we can't use astrology to accurately describe people and/or predict events with a high level of accuracy astrology is useless. As it is astrology can and does do those things whether some people want to believe it or not.
Subjective opinion? What's really subjective? My opinion based off of myself as a 12th house person, my experiences with other 12th house people,and the observations of 12th house people made by countless other astrologers that more less agree with me. Or the opinion of one person that came onto the forum as a complete newb just a few short years ago and says "I'm a 12th house person but I'm not introverted thus 12th house placements don't have anything to do with introversion". Keep in mind this person was a newb and openly admitted that they didn't know their time of birth. So who's opinion is really subjective here?

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Who openly admitted to not knowing their birth time? I know you aren't talking about me.

My mother was 100 percent certain of an hour later which gave me a Scorpio Asc. She was wrong being that I was born an hour earlier. Wth does that have to do with anything? As usual, nothing useful to add to the conversation when you've been trumped. Instead you resort to repeating yourself and digging up useless information.

The 12th house is NOT responsible for introversion. It has nothing to do with it. Just because you are an introvert madly in love with the fact doesn't prove a damn thing. You aren't the voice of reason for Astrology. If you've actually read up on the 12th house as you claim you'd know this. It's a lot deeper than some artificial term.

You may experience one thing and 20 other people come along and experience something different. The point is that all experiences are subjective. Astrology is not a tool to form prejudice and unwarranted assumptions. You don't get to decide someone else's personality for them.

What gets me is that's it's always the miserable, depressed, unhappy individuals looking for the "whys" and throw the blame on one aspect knowing damn well it's the entire chart that matters. They then call everyone else that has either the same or similar aspects a liar or someone in denial for not being the same way that they are. I mean really? Are we that dull? Just because your unhappy and miserable doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Your misery and unhappiness is not caused by your birth chart.

posted April 11, 2015 04:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]
. We ALL have good and bad. We all have ease and struggles. We ALL have placements of pain. We ALL are a boss, in some area(s)

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Exactly. Do you have 12th? No, I'm pretty sure not.
Yet for who knows how long, a nearly 60 year old woman can't get past her mother.

My point?
Do we all have problems? Yes.
Is the 12th always to blame? Obviously not.
Can the 12th be bad? Of course. It once was for me. But people change, Ami. People conquer theses these things. Otherwise we might as well give up and say that our lives all suck.
Because you can't conquer your issues doesn't mean that others can't either.
I certainly can and I certainly did. Now I love my 12th. It's one of my most favorite places to be.

posted April 11, 2015 04:34 PM            

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posted April 11, 2015 04:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Who openly admitted to not knowing their birth time? I know you aren't talking about me.

My mother was 100 percent certain of an hour later which gave me a Scorpio Asc. She was wrong being that I was born an hour earlier. Wth does that have to do with anything? As usual, nothing useful to add to the conversation when you've been trumped. Instead you resort to repeating yourself and digging up useless information.

The 12th house is NOT responsible for introversion. It has nothing to do with it. Just because you are an introvert madly in love with the fact doesn't prove a damn thing. You aren't the voice of reason for Astrology. If you've actually read up on the 12th house as you claim you'd know this. It's a lot deeper than some artificial term.

You may experience one thing and 20 other people come along and experience something different. The point is that all experiences are subjective. Astrology is not a tool to form prejudice and unwarranted assumptions. You don't get to decide someone else's personality for them.

What gets me is that's it's always the miserable, depressed, unhappy individuals looking for the "whys" and throw the blame on one aspect knowing damn well it's the entire chart that matters. They then call everyone else that has either the same or similar aspects a liar or someone in denial for not being the same way that they are. I mean really? Are we that dull? Just because your unhappy and miserable doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Your misery and unhappiness is not caused by your birth chart.

Over and out.

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posted April 11, 2015 04:44 PM            

I am crazy

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