posted April 19, 2015 02:13 PM              

These are his placements:

Based on his chart, what could have made people so afraid of him? And what in his chart can you say made him do what he did?

posted April 19, 2015 02:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by joandreamer:
I'm sure everyone has heard of Charles Manson before... I was curious today and decided to take a look at his chart.

Based on his chart, what could have made people so afraid of him? And what in his chart can you say made him do what he did?

Birth time isn't accurate**

GUESSING GAME: What do you think his rising sign is? Or his 8th house? I would guess his Asc to be in Leo.

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He's a Taurus rising (5°14).

Charlie had a magnetic personality, apparently.

He KNEW how to talk to people, especially women.

I think that at some point, he could have gone

either way-- I really do.

But vengeance is what I believe we saw play out.

He wasn't all there to begin with, either, but

yeah.

posted April 19, 2015 02:30 PM            

I have two pages open (not a good idea)

and I'm still on first cup of coffee.

Yours was NOT the ascendant question.

Pardon me, OP.

posted April 19, 2015 02:32 PM              

I fixed the chart and put in the correct info.

posted April 19, 2015 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by joandreamer:
Thank you .

I fixed the chart and put in the correct info.

What do you mean by either way he could have gone? I'm not sure I understand that fully

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Oh, you fixed it... LOL

I thought I was losing my mind between two pages. XD

Anyway... have you read anything or watched anything,

on him or his followers?

Any of his history, prior to the murders or Spahn Ranch?

posted April 19, 2015 03:05 PM            

The combination of Scorpio and Aquarius in his chart makes for a person who can have very extreme persona*, a visionary sort of position (Voltaire had this Sun/Moon combination). The visionary aspect is also highlighted by his tight conjunction between Mars/Neptune. The spiritual leader. But these combination of signs also makes for one whose emotions shoot from total detachment and aloofness (Aquarius) to extreme intensity (Scorpio), so his motivations were rather complex. This tendency is highlighted by Pluto in the 4th, opposite his Moon.

Apparently he had a horrible childhood. He was the product of a teenage pregnancy, with an absent father and an alcoholic mother. I read once that when he was a young child, his mother traded him away for a keg of beer to a childless waitress. He was later retrieved by his grandmother, but then was sent to a school for delinquents- where he was regularly subject to verbal abuse, rape, physical abuse (perhaps due to Uranus conj. Ascendant).

posted April 19, 2015 03:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by socialgraffiti:
Apparently Sharon Tate, the pregnant actress that he murdered, bore a resemblance to his own mother- which triggered rage in him.

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posted April 19, 2015 04:37 PM            

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posted April 19, 2015 05:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
To me, if I am looking to see the markers of sociopath in the chart, Jupiter is the first thing to check. It is a crucial part of the conscience. I would go as far as to say, one could not be a sociopath with a Jupiter that was not afflicted. I have never seen it, anyway.

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posted April 19, 2015 05:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by socialgraffiti:
His Jupiter carries a lot of difficult aspects with it, which means at best he would have an unconventional morality. In this case however, his moral code was just twisted. I've seen people with Jupiter conj. Descendant before, and they often have an agenda, a 'higher purpose' to the people they socialize with. They choose to flatter people based on how well they can make use of them.

The combination of Scorpio and Aquarius in his chart makes for a person who can have very extreme person, a visionary sort of position (Voltaire had this Sun/Moon combination). The visionary aspect is also highlighted by his tight conjunction between Mars/Neptune. The spiritual leader. But these combination of sighs also makes for one whose emotions shoot from total detachment and aloofness (Aquarius) to extreme intensity (Scorpio), so his motivations were rather complex. This tendency is highlighted by Pluto in the 4th, opposite his Moon.

Apparently he had a horrible childhood. He was the product of a teenage pregnancy, with an absent father and an alcoholic mother. I read once that when he was a young child, his mother traded him away for a keg of beer to a childless waitress. He was later retrieved by his grandmother, but then was sent to a school for delinquents- where he was regularly subject to verbal abuse, rape, physical abuse (perhaps due to Uranus conj. Ascendant).

Of course, absolutely none of this excuses him for his crimes, but it sure does explain his extreme propensity for violence. Apparently Sharon Tate, the pregnant actress that he murdered, bore a resemblance to his own mother- which triggered rage in him.

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Good analysis! I completely agree, and I'm glad you touched on the environmental part because the charts can only explain so much. You can have someone with all of the chart ingredients to be a 'killer,' but it needs to be triggered by the environment.

Most of what I've found in sociopathy in the chart fits what Manson had. I think it is important to distinguish between sociopathy and serial killers, because they are two different things as well. Being a sociopath doesn't automatically mean you will murder (I feel Manson was a sociopath as well):

-Moon harsh aspects to Mars
-Mars/Neptune aspects
-Uranus opp BML/Chiron/DC (especially if 7th!)
-Ruler of 5th Jupiter square Moon, Saturn 5th house
-Pluto square Saturn/Merc/Sun
-4th house afflictions
-Excessive or low water (goes both ways- inability to regulate or lack of emotions); for example, Cancer is #1 on violent crimes (most booked and dangerous)
-High amount of mutables

posted April 19, 2015 05:33 PM            

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posted April 19, 2015 05:46 PM            

You don't want these locked up in a kind of closed loop, which is the nature of the square.

I think he has Algol someplace prominent, too.

Someone should check Nessus and Deja, while we are at it

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posted April 19, 2015 05:54 PM            

Put in Algol, Nessus, Dejanira, Swindle, Lie, Prey, Plunge and maybe some others, I will cogitate on

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posted April 19, 2015 06:09 PM            

I don't see how this could be a sociopath unless I am looking at the Moon wrong and it has aspects I missed.

Jupiter is not super stressed, either.

If an Unaspected Moon is a sociopath, you can come knock me over with a feather.

Don't all line up

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posted April 19, 2015 06:21 PM            

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posted April 19, 2015 06:33 PM            

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posted April 19, 2015 06:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by midnightvenus:
By the way, Sharon's Sun exact conjunct his Moon-NN.
Knowing that Moon rules his 4H and that Moon is something our mother "gives us", I think this theory is incredibly likely.

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posted April 19, 2015 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The Moon is Unaspected which makes for a super, super sensitive person a la Micheal Jackson.

I don't see how this could be a sociopath unless I am looking at the Moon wrong and it has aspects I missed.

Jupiter is not super stressed, either.

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quote:

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If an Unaspected Moon is a sociopath, you can come knock me over with a feather.

Don't all line up

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posted April 19, 2015 06:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by astra7:
Trine to Asc, sextile to Dsc?

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You mean squares?
The orb is kinda wide so they wouldn't be felt so much

posted April 19, 2015 06:52 PM            

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posted April 19, 2015 09:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by socialgraffiti:
Apparently he had a horrible childhood. He was the product of a teenage pregnancy, with an absent father and an alcoholic mother. I read once that when he was a young child, his mother traded him away for a keg of beer to a childless waitress. He was later retrieved by his grandmother, but then was sent to a school for delinquents- where he was regularly subject to verbal abuse, rape, physical abuse (perhaps due to Uranus conj. Ascendant).

Of course, absolutely none of this excuses him for his crimes, but it sure does explain his extreme propensity for violence. Apparently Sharon Tate, the pregnant actress that he murdered, bore a resemblance to his own mother- which triggered rage in him.

---

Thanks, you summed up what would've been a long post from me.

Manson had a very colorful life and there are plenty of books documenting it (*) and I bet one could find a documentary on YT (I'd do so but documentaries get taken down so frequently that I just won't bother). He was a victim many times over before he started claiming his own victims.

And that, btw, is an example of karma. That's not to say the victims deserved what they got but what was done to Charles Manson by society was returned to society with the same lack of mercy. Karma is a blind wheel that spreads the pain, not justice as we humans understand it.