posted April 19, 2015 02:35 PM            

An especially disturbing piece of information:
"The UN refugee agency, the UNHCR, said the latest sinking could amount to the largest loss of life during a migrant crossing to Europe. At least another 900 migrants have died crossing the Mediterranean this year".

So this would amount to 1600 deaths just for the last 4 months.

Since this horrible tragedy is resulting in high-level discussions about Europe's responsibilities in the ongoing migration situation, I'm wondering whether it could be related to Pluto going retrograde on the same day of the incident. In an attempt to discourage migration attempts, Europe has downsized its border protection and search-and-rescue resources, so this last incident is resulting in a summit in Luxembourg tomorrow where that 'downsizing' decision will be heavily criticised and hopefully backtracked.

There have been a lot of discussions on this forum, and articles in general, about the Pluto-Uranus square leading to societal changes, by firstly uncovering issues under the surface. The 2 planets are still in a square, and with Pluto going retrograde, the square will 'weaken' faster, so I'm wondering whether this could be one of the last manifestations of issues we (as in humanity as a whole) need to work on and resolve in the next few decades. In particular, when fellow human beings are forced to flee their home countries due to war, poverty and other similar circumstances, the 'receiving' country carries, or should carry, much more responsibility for their lives and safety, than it is currently being acknowledged.

posted April 19, 2015 02:52 PM            

Europe it appears needs the cheap labor and the numbers to give the illusion of population growth. This makes things even more complicated.

posted April 19, 2015 05:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
So, what do you think their agenda is?? The puppet masters.

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posted April 19, 2015 05:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by astra7:
I'd say, this is an effect created by a small number of puppet masters for an agenda....like everything.

First create a problem (migrants/immigration), see the reaction (get the public on their side..."oh how terrible" etc) then offer a desired solution. Job done. Solution was what the puppet masters wanted but they had to introduce a problem first in order to make it look natural. They couldn't just introduce a solution part.

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Hmm, I'm all for a good theory. What do you think the motivation/reason behind this would be. I guess based on your response what would be the reason they want to catalyze war.

@Nine: I completely agree. What you are talking about is quite a simple task in nature, yet no one is willing to take accountability.

RIP to all the victims. Another tragedy that never should have happened.

posted April 19, 2015 09:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by astra7:
I wouldn't know until they introduce new law or new something to accommodate this. But then again, it could be just making everyone hatred of everyone....preparing for war. 'yeah migrants are taking our job, sponging our country, Europe' etc...

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If you want to think along those lines then it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with migrants. If I were looking for the hand of a political conspiracy here I'd look at what was being voted on while public and media attention was elsewhere, that is suspect this is a distraction. Since these puppet masters are obviously evil they should have no problem sinking a boat to do that.

Of course there could be other suspects, especially if say anyone aboard was connected to a powerful crime family who was having to sneak in before making it to wherever but the boat sinkers knew any attempt to use the authorities would alert the crime family and just whacking them would also bring about retaliation, but here they could make the boat sinking look like a tragedy rather than a hit.

It's conceivable that something could happen over internal church politics (that is someone who might interfere with the promotion or designs of someone else in the church who really didn't want the boat to arrive) in Europe as well. One thing that's clear to me is that religion doesn't make people better than anyone else ethically and morally ("golden rule") speaking (and as the joke goes one prays for a bike until they realize God doesn't work like that so steals a bike and then prays for forgiveness). Heck, secretly sinking a boat to inspire people to come, pray, and (most importantly) tithe shouldn't be entirely inconceivable.

Technically, white supremacists or other European identity groups could engage in a conspiracy to sink it though at least they'd be the least likely to get away with it (unless they've got some good friends among the investigators or legal authorities, which is possible, and of course they themselves could have been manipulated by a yet another conspiracy that's more sophisticated).

posted April 19, 2015 09:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
So this would amount to 1600 deaths just for the last 4 months.

Since this horrible tragedy is resulting in high-level discussions about Europe's responsibilities in the ongoing migration situation, I'm wondering whether it could be related to Pluto going retrograde on the same day of the incident.

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SaturnFan, no, I don't think this is due to Pluto going retrograde. Certainly Uranus-Pluto is the larger cycle involved with migrations due to war and turmoil, but the actual event of migrants drowning at sea is a correlation with the current Saturn-Neptune square. Look at other tragedies that have happened at sea: the tsunami in Asia that occurred in December of 2004, and then Hurricane Katrina in the U.S. in the late summer of 2005, both under the Saturn-Neptune opposition (using an orb of 18 degrees in the former, and 10 degrees in the latter).

quote:

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...when fellow human beings are forced to flee their home countries due to war, poverty and other similar circumstances, the 'receiving' country carries, or should carry, much more responsibility for their lives and safety, than it is currently being acknowledged.

What are your thoughts?

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My initial response to your question, without having thought about this issue, is certainly the country of destination should take responsibility for the well being of refugees. That would be feasible when the country has the resources, but realistically, it wouldn't be feasible in the case of a poor, third world country.

posted April 20, 2015 06:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
If you want to think along those lines then it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with migrants. If I were looking for the hand of a political conspiracy here I'd look at what was being voted on while public and media attention was elsewhere, that is suspect this is a distraction. Since these puppet masters are obviously evil they should have no problem sinking a boat to do that.

Of course there could be other suspects, especially if say anyone aboard was connected to a powerful crime family who was having to sneak in before making it to wherever but the boat sinkers knew any attempt to use the authorities would alert the crime family and just whacking them would also bring about retaliation, but here they could make the boat sinking look like a tragedy rather than a hit.

It's conceivable that something could happen over internal church politics (that is someone who might interfere with the promotion or designs of someone else in the church who really didn't want the boat to arrive) in Europe as well. One thing that's clear to me is that religion doesn't make people better than anyone else ethically and morally ("golden rule") speaking (and as the joke goes one prays for a bike until they realize God doesn't work like that so steals a bike and then prays for forgiveness). Heck, secretly sinking a boat to inspire people to come, pray, and (most importantly) tithe shouldn't be entirely inconceivable.

Technically, white supremacists or other European identity groups could engage in a conspiracy to sink it though at least they'd be the least likely to get away with it (unless they've got some good friends among the investigators or legal authorities, which is possible, and of course they themselves could have been manipulated by a yet another conspiracy that's more sophisticated).

And then I could add supernatural Matrix-like entities who wanted to be sure that certain other entities weren't sure who exactly was hit or why. Just off the top of my head.

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posted April 20, 2015 06:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
SaturnFan, no, I don't think this is due to Pluto going retrograde. Certainly Uranus-Pluto is the larger cycle involved with migrations due to war and turmoil, but the actual event of migrants drowning at sea is a correlation with the current Saturn-Neptune square. Look at other tragedies that have happened at sea: the tsunami in Asia that occurred in December of 2004, and then Hurricane Katrina in the U.S. in the late summer of 2005, both under the Saturn-Neptune opposition (using an orb of 18 degrees in the former, and 10 degrees in the latter).

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hi peony - wow, I didn't even notice or consider Neptune-Saturn, but this makes a lot of sense!
There was a 11-degree Quincunx between Saturn during the 2011 earthquake and tsunami in Japan, I know it's considered a minor aspect but could it be related too?

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
My initial response to your question, without having thought about this issue, is certainly the country of destination should take responsibility for the well being of refugees. That would be feasible when the country has the resources, but realistically, it wouldn't be feasible in the case of a poor, third world country.

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posted April 20, 2015 07:58 PM            

quote:

---

There have been a lot of discussions on this forum, and articles in general, about the Pluto-Uranus square leading to societal changes, by firstly uncovering issues under the surface. The 2 planets are still in a square, and with Pluto going retrograde, the square will 'weaken' faster, so I'm wondering whether this could be one of the last manifestations of issues we (as in humanity as a whole) need to work on and resolve in the next few decades. In particular, when fellow human beings are forced to flee their home countries due to war, poverty and other similar circumstances, the 'receiving' country carries, or should carry, much more responsibility for their lives and safety, than it is currently being acknowledged.

---

For a clearer understanding of the Pluto-Uranus square,I believe it would help to revisit the last time these two conjoined.

posted April 20, 2015 09:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
There was a 11-degree Quincunx between Saturn [and Neptune] during the 2011 earthquake and tsunami in Japan, I know it's considered a minor aspect but could it be related too?

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I'm not sure what date you're using but looking at March 11, 2011, the earthquake which caused a chain reaction from earthquake to tsunami and the nuclear reactor disaster at Fukushima, was a correlation with the Uranus-Saturn-Pluto t-square. To give you a picture of the colossal scale of this disaster in relation to this t-square, here's the data according to Wikipedia:

A March 10, 2015 Japanese Police Agency report confirmed:

15,891 deaths
6,152 injured
2,584 missing
228,863 people displaced
4.4 million households in northeastern Japan were without electricity and 1.5 million without water

The World Bank estimated the economic cost was US $235 billion dollars, constituting the costliest natural disaster in world history.

Another agency report data:

127,290 buildings completely collapsed,
272,788 buildings partially collapsed
747,989 buildings partially damaged.

Earthquake and tsunami caused massive and severe structural damage in North-eastern Japan, including a dam collapse, and major damage to roads, railways, plus fires in multiple locations.

posted April 21, 2015 11:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
For a clearer understanding of the Pluto-Uranus square,I believe it would help to revisit the last time these two conjoined.

I believe this took place in the '60s, a conjunction in Virgo.

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posted April 21, 2015 11:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
I'm not sure what date you're using but looking at March 11, 2011, the earthquake which caused a chain reaction from earthquake to tsunami and the nuclear reactor disaster at Fukushima, was a correlation with the Uranus-Saturn-Pluto t-square. To give you a picture of the colossal scale of this disaster in relation to this t-square, here's the data according to Wikipedia:

A March 10, 2015 Japanese Police Agency report confirmed:

15,891 deaths
6,152 injured
2,584 missing
228,863 people displaced
4.4 million households in northeastern Japan were without electricity and 1.5 million without water

The World Bank estimated the economic cost was US $235 billion dollars, constituting the costliest natural disaster in world history.

Another agency report data:

127,290 buildings completely collapsed,
272,788 buildings partially collapsed
747,989 buildings partially damaged.

Earthquake and tsunami caused massive and severe structural damage in North-eastern Japan, including a dam collapse, and major damage to roads, railways, plus fires in multiple locations.

You see the manifestations of these planets in various combinations: Saturn-Uranus, collapse of structures, adding Pluto, on a massive scale, affecting millions of people, the eruption of nature (Uranus-Pluto) causing massive destruction, death and extreme hardship (Saturn-Pluto).

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posted April 22, 2015 01:49 AM            

I think you would be interested in Richard Tarnas's brilliant Cosmos and Psyche. If you haven't heard of him, this book is about major world transits: Uranus-Pluto, Saturn-Pluto, Jupiter-Uranus, and Uranus-Neptune as they apply to western cultural history and the collective. This book is a tour de force in my opinion.

Also, if you're interested, his talks on world transits are on YouTube:

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXIZJEwNZQg

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 2 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKl54exBq8

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 3 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsuvpMajtIg

posted April 22, 2015 09:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
SaturnFan,

I think you would be interested in Richard Tarnas's brilliant Cosmos and Psyche. If you haven't heard of him, this book is about major world transits: Uranus-Pluto, Saturn-Pluto, Jupiter-Uranus, and Uranus-Neptune as they apply to western cultural history and the collective. This book is a tour de force in my opinion.

Also, if you're interested, his talks on world transits are on YouTube:

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXIZJEwNZQg

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 2 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKl54exBq8

Our Moment in History: World Transits 2008-2020 (part 3 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsuvpMajtIg

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