posted April 21, 2015 03:59 AM            

He has tried with me but is having a hard time cracking the nut called Capricorn Moon. When I fail to succumb he does a 180 and instead accuses me of being aloof.

He does it with his daughter.

And now he does it with his nephew that came as a refugee from a very bad place.

I am stuck in the middle trying to build "bridges".

What aspects would generally cause this??

posted April 21, 2015 04:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mercuranian:
that sounds like NPD (narcissism)

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posted April 21, 2015 04:41 AM            

Are you saying that he enjoys the attention he gets from being the one who is "needed"?

And then the reciprocation is not forthcoming or ill-timed?

posted April 21, 2015 04:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I think I need more information.

Are you saying that he enjoys the attention he gets from being the one who is "needed"?

And then the reciprocation is not forthcoming or ill-timed?

I need another example.

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Right. It's as if he has an undying NEED to be needed. He wants to be in control by almost luring people in and when they are "in", he detaches himself and pretends that the emotional displays of other person/s, when they don't understand what is going on, are ridiculous.

I COULD pin this down to his past relationships of first having been cheated on by his then gf when he needed her the most and then making the mistake of marrying a complete lunatic of a woman 2 years later but he would never admit this is what is haunting him.

posted April 21, 2015 04:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
But he is the exact opposite at work! Very humble to our customers.

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posted April 21, 2015 04:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mercuranian:
it fits. different face in public, different face in private.

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Ok but how does this explain that he is religious and STRONGLY believes there is no one like God and humans are not worthy of measuring themselves in same manner ie being "above" other humans or God?? Or is he so deviant that this just slips under radar?

posted April 21, 2015 05:08 AM            

Growing up I've always felt rejected and unwanted so now I tend to rejoice in someone wanting/needing me (Venus) and then in the power of rejecting them (Pluto).

It also fits the behavioral pattern for NPD because he's essentially seeking revenge for being 'under-appreciated'...(Well I can only assume what's going on in his head but if it's anything like mine then he and I share the sin of vanity, which is the core component of NPD.)

...Dang that's real sh*tty. I'm sorry you have to deal with that OP

posted April 21, 2015 05:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mercuranian:
that sounds like NPD (narcissism)

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Wow! : o You are spot on!

posted April 21, 2015 05:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by whaaat:
As mentioned above this could definitely be Venus opposition Pluto.

Growing up I've always felt rejected and unwanted so now I tend to rejoice in someone wanting/needing me (Venus) and then in the power of rejecting them (Pluto).

It also fits the behavioral pattern for NPD because he's essentially seeking revenge for being 'under-appreciated'...(Well I can only assume what's going on in his head but if it's anything like mine then he and I share the sin of vanity, which is the core component of NPD.)

...Dang that's real sh*tty. I'm sorry you have to deal with that OP

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Would it make him extra prone to this thanks to having a retrograde Pluto?

posted April 21, 2015 05:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
Would it make him extra prone to this thanks to having a retrograde Pluto?

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I don't really understand retrograde planets yet. Or midpoints. Or oppositions (until recently)

posted April 21, 2015 06:20 AM            

So this is like someone who responds to a 911 call but doesn't dispatch the necessary resources to solve the crises?

They just like being the 1st point of contact?

Look to Moon aspects/afflictions.

The Moon IME is the start of everything; the start of social relationships, vulnerability, expression of affection/softness and what one expects from the maternal figure(not always necessarily a woman).

I am thinking that this weird/strange pattern of behavior is learned. Almost like a defense mechanism to feel that sense of intimacy which one needs from a partner.

posted April 21, 2015 06:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Hmmmm. I see.

So this is like someone who responds to a 911 call but doesn't dispatch the necessary resources to solve the crises?

They just like being the 1st point of contact?

Look to Moon aspects/afflictions.

The Moon IME is the start of everything; the start of social relationships, vulnerability, expression of affection/softness and what one expects from the maternal figure(not always necessarily a woman).

I am thinking that this weird/strange pattern of behavior is learned. Almost like a defense mechanism to feel that sense of intimacy which one needs from a partner.

I am curious as to where his Moon is at?

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He has a 2H Taurus Moon conj Saturn and Dejanira, sq Venus, opp. Neptune.

I have always been curious about his family growing up, especially his mother or later, mother figure. My gut tells me one thing and he, another. I know Ami Anne would point to the conjunction of Deja and Moon and perhaps she is right.

posted April 21, 2015 10:07 AM            

I see the square aspect to Venus as also a major DING!!

The two work together in suppressing the Moon(care).But in very differing ways.

The Moon in Taurus wants security/safety and consistency. If they don't get it,they tend to respond in complex ways to secure this.

I think that this may be the case here.

This is the bases and motivation of it all:To resist anything "threatening" because one sees it as "adverse" to one's peace of mind(Moon).

Firstly Saturn on Moon says "Grow up".And nothing could be more apt of that internal suppression than his words of "you need to be strong and grow up" to people he disappoints.

2ndly,Venus and Saturn don't give the same energy. They are actually very contradictory. And that again explains the dichotomy in expression.

With the square of Venus to Moon, it suggests someone "hungry" for love, attention and validation from others.

This is not "love" either. Because here there is usually a preoccupation with external stuff; friends, approval, popularity, good reputation, public relations, materialism etc.

But the conjunct aspect to Saturn also makes one fearful of being vulnerable or expressing their inner need to be loved and cared for.

Often what we are having trouble dealing with ourselves, we project explicitly to others.

The more consistent the inner turmoil is in relation to the person we are projecting it too, the more "intense" the bond. Because they mirror us.

I think he was attracted to your Cap Moon because you reminded him of that Saturn/Moon complex.

But the Venus square craves attention. Even if it is unhealthy.

I read somewhere that strong aspects between Moon/Venus suggest that the individual tends to make the relationship more about them(Moon),then the relationship or "we".

Watch your step. I feel sorry for his kid though. I wonder how they see him as a parent? Her Sun aspects and positions would be interesting

I suspect she may have some affliction to his Moon too or an air position to process all his instability mentally.

posted April 21, 2015 10:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Okay. I think that Saturn sitting on the Moon is a BINGO!!

I see the square aspect to Venus as also a major DING!!

The two work together in suppressing the Moon(care).But in very differing ways.

The Moon in Taurus wants security/safety and consistency. If they don't get it,they tend to respond in complex ways to secure this.

I think that this may be the case here.

This is the bases and motivation of it all:To resist anything "threatening" because one sees it as "adverse" to one's peace of mind(Moon).

Firstly Saturn on Moon says "Grow up".And nothing could be more apt of that internal suppression than his words of "you need to be strong and grow up" to people he disappoints.

2ndly,Venus and Saturn don't give the same energy. They are actually very contradictory. And that again explains the dichotomy in expression.

With the square of Venus to Moon, it suggests someone "hungry" for love, attention and validation from others.

This is not "love" either. Because here there is usually a preoccupation with external stuff; friends, approval, popularity, good reputation, public relations, materialism etc.

But the conjunct aspect to Saturn also makes one fearful of being vulnerable or expressing their inner need to be loved and cared for.

Often what we are having trouble dealing with ourselves, we project explicitly to others.

The more consistent the inner turmoil is in relation to the person we are projecting it too, the more "intense" the bond. Because they mirror us.

I think he was attracted to your Cap Moon because you reminded him of that Saturn/Moon complex.

But the Venus square craves attention. Even if it is unhealthy.

I read somewhere that strong aspects between Moon/Venus suggest that the individual tends to make the relationship more about them(Moon),then the relationship or "we".

Watch your step. I feel sorry for his kid though. I wonder how they see him as a parent? Her Sun aspects and positions would be interesting

I suspect she may have some affliction to his Moon too or an air position to process all his instability mentally.

If in water. God help her

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posted April 21, 2015 01:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Okay. I think that Saturn sitting on the Moon is a BINGO!!

I see the square aspect to Venus as also a major DING!!

The two work together in suppressing the Moon(care).But in very differing ways.

The Moon in Taurus wants security/safety and consistency. If they don't get it,they tend to respond in complex ways to secure this.

I think that this may be the case here.

This is the bases and motivation of it all:To resist anything "threatening" because one sees it as "adverse" to one's peace of mind(Moon).

Firstly Saturn on Moon says "Grow up".And nothing could be more apt of that internal suppression than his words of "you need to be strong and grow up" to people he disappoints.

2ndly,Venus and Saturn don't give the same energy. They are actually very contradictory. And that again explains the dichotomy in expression.

With the square of Venus to Moon, it suggests someone "hungry" for love, attention and validation from others.

This is not "love" either. Because here there is usually a preoccupation with external stuff; friends, approval, popularity, good reputation, public relations, materialism etc.

But the conjunct aspect to Saturn also makes one fearful of being vulnerable or expressing their inner need to be loved and cared for.

Often what we are having trouble dealing with ourselves, we project explicitly to others.

The more consistent the inner turmoil is in relation to the person we are projecting it too, the more "intense" the bond. Because they mirror us.

I think he was attracted to your Cap Moon because you reminded him of that Saturn/Moon complex.

But the Venus square craves attention. Even if it is unhealthy.

I read somewhere that strong aspects between Moon/Venus suggest that the individual tends to make the relationship more about them(Moon),then the relationship or "we".

Watch your step. I feel sorry for his kid though. I wonder how they see him as a parent? Her Sun aspects and positions would be interesting

I suspect she may have some affliction to his Moon too or an air position to process all his instability mentally.

If in water. God help her

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Aries, you obviously have an understanding of these Moon placements. I'd like to run something by you. I recently knew someone briefly who had a t-square involving a Cap Moon in the 10H, opposed Uranus in Cancer in the 4H, and both square Saturn in Libra in the 7H. He told me that in his past he had relationships online with several women who didn't know about each other. One day, he brought them all together and that's how these women found out. He also told me repeatedly that there were other woman he knew online who wanted him. In other words, that I wasn't the only one. It dawned on me that this was about his relationship with his mother. She was an alcoholic who wasn't there for him emotionally. I think there is a big hole in him because of this. He never "had her" and so this behavior was a way of trying to deal with this pain, though in an unconscious way, by having women want him and then rejecting them. What do you think?

posted April 22, 2015 04:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
Daughter is a Taurus Sun, Cancer Moon, Asc..Her Aries Mars sits right on his Sun and he REALLY pushes her buttons which her Moon can't handle at all. I think that if it hadn't been for my Cap Moon I would have been long gone but it's proving to be a rock, yet again.
And thank you for all you wrote. It explains alot!! And yes, the relationship is mostly about his needs and him and there is very little "we", so, right again.

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Cancer Moon/Asc you say ? The irony of the universe. Are they conjunct?

Nothing says "show me that you care" quite like Cancer placements. And for them to be on the external projection(Asc) and internal mind(Moon), is noteworthy.

She is teaching him to get back to his sensitive place(Moon). She will teach him this again and again until he "gets it". And maybe he won't?

Is her Mars in square aspect to Asc/Moon? If the Moon, this reflects her internal assessment of him.

Also,he must take note. If the Universe has its way,she may be drawn to someone much like him(Saturn on the 7th house cusp).

Someone who provides the dependability that she wanted from her own father, but withdraws with emotional displays etc.

Or she may be the type of person that shuts down or postpones all that "coupling" stuff. Reminiscing on the treatment that she has from Dad(Saturn)

But if he takes note of the psychological imprint he is leaving on her and her view of emotional security.

She may attract someone shy, but very loving and dependable(albeit undemonstrative).

posted April 22, 2015 04:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
[B] Aries, you obviously have an understanding of these Moon placements. I'd like to run something by you. I recently knew someone briefly who had a t-square involving a Cap Moon in the 10H, opposed Uranus in Cancer in the 4H, and both square Saturn in Libra in the 7H. He told me that in his past he had relationships online with several women who didn't know about each other. One day, he brought them all together and that's how these women found out. He also told me repeatedly that there were other woman he knew online who wanted him. In other words, that I wasn't the only one. It dawned on me that this was about his relationship with his mother. She was an alcoholic who wasn't there for him emotionally. I think there is a big hole in him because of this. He never "had her" and so this behavior was a way of trying to deal with this pain, though in an unconscious way, by having women want him and then rejecting them. What do you think?/B]

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A very real and tangible possibility. Eat your heart out Freud

The precision of the explanation is not always necessary. But what can be deduced from Saturn/Moon aspects are the love/nurturing ie. that 1st contact with another is limited/not there(Saturn).

Sometimes the mother may have been there, "nurturing" and all those things.But the
child didn't "feel" it.So its as if the nurturing really wasn't there anyways.

The Moon is our own internal mind and how we process things. It is the subjective experience and never consistently "rational"- especially in water signs.

The Moon is also our idea of what "nurturing" is in our life experience. And our 1st idea of what we deem as "love" etc. That is why siblings can have differing perceptions of the same mother.

So when Saturn sits on the Moon natally, regardless of how "wonderful" our mother was to our siblings. We on the other hand, just didn't feel it.

posted April 23, 2015 02:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
A very real and tangible possibility. Eat your heart out Freud

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lol

quote:

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The precision of the explanation is not always necessary.

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True, but this wasn't a case of misperception on the child's part. He was raised by two alcoholics. The deprivation of nurturing was a fact.

The human behaviors that we adopt as adaptations to or management of pain is a fascinating study.

posted April 23, 2015 02:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by whaaat:
As mentioned above this could definitely be Venus opposition Pluto.

Growing up I've always felt rejected and unwanted so now I tend to rejoice in someone wanting/needing me (Venus) and then in the power of rejecting them (Pluto).

It also fits the behavioral pattern for NPD because he's essentially seeking revenge for being 'under-appreciated'...(Well I can only assume what's going on in his head but if it's anything like mine then he and I share the sin of vanity, which is the core component of NPD.)

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whaaat, I appreciate your honesty in talking about what must bring up painful memories. Your comments about early family experiences makes me wonder, if you don't mind my asking, were you a black sheep?