posted June 21, 2015 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
It depends on whether or not there are planets on those mentioned cusps-as that can change things.

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posted June 21, 2015 01:04 PM            

But one must also look to aspects to the ruler(Venus) for indications.

If Venus aspects Neptune/Pluto by square or opposition,it may allude to this even more.

It could also indicate one that likes to keep their romantic life a secret.

Often 12th house associations suggest some "undoing" or the other.

posted June 21, 2015 03:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
I agree, but I would prefer to shed more light on 12th house Libra and house cusps. I feel planet interpretations are only going to complicate that.

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In addition to looking up meanings for house cusps,

you may want to look into 'Intercepted Houses.'

The person who's 12th is encompassed entirely by

Scorpio, likely has his 6th House encompassed by

Taurus.

I have that going on in my chart (different houses...

the 4th is all Cancer--10th is all Cap), and as a

result, the 12th begins with Pisces, and ends

with Taurus (ASC).

posted June 22, 2015 03:27 AM            

The twelfth house is the unconscious ideal to which we aspire ourselves and others to meet. The sixth house is where we discover the disillusionment of our unconscious ideal, and hence the internal crisis that we are met with. Why are things like this? Why are people like this? Why am I like this?

With Aries, we are talking about purely self-involved action, with neither forethought or consideration for others, it is purely instinctual energy. And this doesn't necessarily correlate with being a bad thing - that is just Aries. Do what you want when you want - the freedom of self-discovery, through action and reaction.

Libra on the other hand is going to be thinking entirely about how their actions may affect others in their lives. This could even extend to placing other's desire before their own, or even taking on the desires of others as their own, erasing themselves entirely from the picture.

And so a "code of conduct" if you will is created that the individual idealises and abides by (twelfth house)all the while unconsciously expecting that others in their life will abide by this also. But then the sixth house crisis happens - people in fact do just do what they want without forethought or consideration for others, and your ideal is now revealed as merely an illusion, and the disillusionment occurs.

How one reacts when this happens will obviously vary from individual to individual, but the whole process here is to actually make the individual see that the Libran expectations are indeed a "selfish" act within itself (Aries sixth house), as if others were to actually abide by this "code of conduct" (which will have occurred in past lives when the individual was in positions of power), it would inhibit their pure freedom of expressing their true selves and identity, which is the very position the individual has put themselves in.

posted June 23, 2015 12:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Well when I think of Libra on the cusp of the 12th,I think of a secret liaison.

But one must also look to aspects to the ruler(Venus) for indications.

If Venus aspects Neptune/Pluto by square or opposition,it may allude to this even more.

It could also indicate one that likes to keep their romantic life a secret.

Often 12th house associations suggest some "undoing" or the other.

And in this instance,it could suggest that one may be caught up in something hidden- probably a romance or full-on affair(Libra).

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posted June 23, 2015 12:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TempuraNostril:
When trying to discover the particular meaning of one house cusp, sometimes it helps to look at the sign on the opposing one - in this case the sixth house.

The twelfth house is the unconscious ideal to which we aspire ourselves and others to meet. The sixth house is where we discover the disillusionment of our unconscious ideal, and hence the internal crisis that we are met with. Why are things like this? Why are people like this? Why am I like this?

With Aries, we are talking about purely self-involved action, with neither forethought or consideration for others, it is purely instinctual energy. And this doesn't necessarily correlate with being a bad thing - that is just Aries. Do what you want when you want - the freedom of self-discovery, through action and reaction.

Libra on the other hand is going to be thinking entirely about how their actions may affect others in their lives. This could even extend to placing other's desire before their own, or even taking on the desires of others as their own, erasing themselves entirely from the picture.

And so a "code of conduct" if you will is created that the individual idealises and abides by (twelfth house)all the while unconsciously expecting that others in their life will abide by this also. But then the sixth house crisis happens - people in fact do just do what they want without forethought or consideration for others, and your ideal is now revealed as merely an illusion, and the disillusionment occurs.

How one reacts when this happens will obviously vary from individual to individual, but the whole process here is to actually make the individual see that the Libran expectations are indeed a "selfish" act within itself (Aries sixth house), as if others were to actually abide by this "code of conduct" (which will have occurred in past lives when the individual was in positions of power), it would inhibit their pure freedom of expressing their true selves and identity, which is the very position the individual has put themselves in.

So the lesson here is to learn that authentic self expression of one's identity and desires is in fact okay, and not a bad thing, but that one must feel comfortable to allow themselves the same grace as others have.

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posted June 23, 2015 02:11 AM            

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Originally posted by meowpower:
I've never heard of it being put that way. Most people just say that the 6th house represents work. But its interestig to think that it could just be the house of disillusionment. I mean work is just that basically. What are your thoughts on Scorpio 12th & Taurus 6th? What illusions would that deal with?

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The 12th house is the disillusionment, the 6th house is what elicits it. An element in a chart should also be read with reference to its polarity.

The idea of the sixth house representing work relates to the crisis I mentioned. In the workplace you are put in a position where you are constantly needing to refine (sixth house/Virgo) your performance so meet certain standards (or ideals - 12th house/Pisces) set by the company you work for, your boss and your self. When you're not meeting those standards, an internal crisis occurs and you begin to sift through everything mentally to figure out what needs to disposed of, what can be kept, what is no longer useful, etc. (this also brings in the natural sextile the 6th house/Virgo shares with the 8th house/Scorpio). The standards/ideals that you set specifically for yourself is represented in the 12th house, and how they are not met is reflected in the 6th.

With Scorpio on the 12th and Taurus in the 6th, the individual is going to face a crisis of needing to learn self-reliance. The individual holds a subconscious ideal that his needs - whether that be in a material/monetary sense, a deeply emotional/sexual sense, or in a spiritual sense - will be accommodated by others more/less powerful than themselves. The individual must learn to find the resources within themselves to meet their own needs, and not rely on the will and power (or lack thereof) of others to do it for them. For in past lives this would have been a likely occurrence. When the individual begins to realise this, again the disillusionment occurs, and the internal crisis begins. And the way the individual may deal with this, is by becoming the "investor" themselves, hoping to manipulate others into financially, emotionally, spiritually invest back in them. When this does not happen, the individual is thrown back on themselves to learn self-reliance. Or it is the other way around and the individual tries to manipulate others by cutting them off from their own resources completely (if the individual themselves is in a position of power).

posted June 23, 2015 04:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Hello there. I was wondering what the difference would be between someone with Libra on the 12th house cusp versus someone with Scorpio on the 12th house cusp, but both with Scorpio rising.

Any interpretations? I've tried Google but all of the threads I found just involve what the 12th house represents as opposed to how it functions with signs, planets, duplicities, etc.

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posted June 23, 2015 06:45 AM            

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Originally posted by Venusincap89:
if both has scorpio rising, then both has scorpio first house. It's a trick question, there is no difference, everything else being theoretically equal

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posted June 23, 2015 10:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
No, it's not a trick question. Using the placidus system the houses are not all equal, therefore one may have a different sign or way of expressing themselves in the area of life ruled by the house cusps in a chart.

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posted June 23, 2015 10:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Venusincap89:
oops that approach came off wrong sorry.
But I would still assert that they are both Scorpio 1st houses, and degrees of ASC or degrees of planets in Libra determines the effects of such positions. closer to 15, stronger, closer to 1, just entering the house's challenge, closer to 30, near the mastery of the house's craft.

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posted June 23, 2015 10:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
It's cool I'm not offended. & yeah, everyone seems to be implying that planetary placements matter more than the house cusp. I guess the reason why I'm stressing house cusps so much is because one chart I'm viewing has a duplicity in Libra/Aries while another has a duplicity in Scorpio/Taurus. Anything I've found from Google has proven to be nearly useless in decoding this. I really need to find some good astrology books.

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posted June 24, 2015 07:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
That's an awesome interpretation. So how exactly does that differ from Scorpio on the 12th house cusp?

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There are certain things that I have concluded- based on experiences. And most of these interpretations are based on that and are not strictly academic.

Any time that there is a planet in the 12th house,it usually means that there is something hidden going on IME.

So generally Scorpio is linked to Pluto. And any house with Scorpio/Pluto, we associate with extremes of feelings and a sort of "I will not compromise on the issues of this house" etc.

So we can deduce that Scorpio on the cusp of the 12th is a very private individual who will protect his business with a gun LOL.

But if there is Mercury there, things are not likely to be so serious as Mercury is not likely to be as emotional as Pluto.

But if we have Mercury oconjunct Pluto, Mercury will feel a lot of Pluto's emotional extremes.

So in the former, we may deduce that the individual has a gift for seeing (mercury)things that are obscure of difficult to understand/reason (12th).

But with the latter, we can deduce that not only does one have a knack for seeing/understanding the obscure, but may also willing look/dig for it(Pluto tends to orient one towards investigation).