posted July 04, 2015 01:00 PM            

Wanted to discuss one of the greatest minds in our last century - Carl Gustav Jung.

The work of Carl Jung transformed the field of modern psychology by incorporating the concept of archetypes and synchronicity into the mystery of the workings of the psyche. The Jungian process involves delving into our dreams and the symbols that weave a web linking the conscious and the subconscious. In doing so, we are able to venture on a path of self-discovery and facilitate the process of what Jung called “individuation” in which lost parts of ourselves are recaptured.

Does anyone here study his work? I've attached his natal below. Is his Neptune-Pluto midpoint conj his Moon gave him his profound insights into the workings of the subconscious?

posted July 04, 2015 01:40 PM            

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posted July 04, 2015 02:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Very cool. Thanks!

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Ami, can you revise the title name?

posted July 04, 2015 02:25 PM            

great work

posted July 04, 2015 02:35 PM            

Well, his 12H ruler is in his 1H, and his 8H ruler and well as its intercepted sign's ruler are both conjunct in Cancer, on Sirius. His duad MOON falls at 6° SCO 36', opening his 9th house of higher education and philosophy, and just opposite his NEPTUNE. Fitting, eh ?

posted July 04, 2015 02:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Peluches:
Thanks for the chart !

Well, his 12H ruler is in his 1H, and his 8H ruler and well as its intercepted sign's ruler are both conjunct in Cancer, on Sirius. His duad MOON falls at 6° SCO 36', opening his 9th house of higher education and philosophy, and just opposite his NEPTUNE. Fitting, eh ?

What are the degrees and minutes of his 8th, 9th and 12th house cusps ? Just curious.

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Here's the additional table with houses

posted July 04, 2015 02:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lalalinda:
Hello blueskies88, So sorry I can't fix the title spelling but don't worry,
we know who you're talking about.

great work

---

Ok

posted July 04, 2015 05:51 PM            

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posted July 04, 2015 06:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I bet asteroids would show us things. I wonder where the Jung asteroid is

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haha, i was thinking earlier to pull up the Jung asteroid as well.

it pulled it up and created a new chart with Dr. Jung's asteroid ON his chart!!!

It's in Cancer, 6H. Hmm, I wonder what that would mean?

posted July 04, 2015 06:20 PM            

Just tell us, if you want.

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posted July 04, 2015 06:40 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by bluestskies88:
*Randall or any mod, can you please revise the name on title.. I typed his name wrong

Wanted to discuss one of the greatest minds in our last century - Carl Gustav Jung.

Does anyone here study his work? I've attached his natal below. Is his Neptune-Pluto midpoint conj his Moon gave him his profound insights into the workings of the subconscious?

---

Moon @ Nep/Pluto 1d59m ,, but Merc/Nep is only 6' off asc

posted July 04, 2015 06:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I hate to make you do a new chart, but where is Dejanira--no 157

Just tell us, if you want.

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here you go

posted July 04, 2015 06:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Seimei:
Moon @ Nep/Pluto 1d59m ,, but Merc/Nep is only 6' off asc

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6'? I am not understanding...Neptune seems to be very far from where his Merc is

posted July 04, 2015 07:11 PM            

Sure, the Neptune-Pluto MP on his Moon is part of it. I tend to use much wider orbs than people here, particularly with the luminaries, and so consider his Moon to be in aspect to Pluto.

Jung also has Sun-Neptune in major aspect, along with Moon-Neptune certainly correlates with the emphasis on archetypes generally, but in contrast to Freudian psychology, which is Plutonic (id, instincts, sexuality) rather than Neptunian, Jung was attuned to the more spiritual aspects which inform the psychology named after him. Also Neptunian is the more feminine and artistic sensibility of his psychology as opposed to Freud's more pronounced allegiance to the masculine-oriented Enlightenment and science.

The Saturn-Uranus-Pluto t-square is also significant in his chart and in his work. He displayed the typical Saturn-Uranus pattern of starting out within an established tradition with Freud, but then broke away, driven by his own creative daimon in a whole new direction.

The concept of the "shadow," relates to the Saturn-Pluto square in his chart. The shadow consists of the parts of us that we tend to deny and split off in the unconscious. The shadow is something that people with Saturn-Pluto in major aspect in their charts are highly sensitive to and aware of. It was a major preoccupation with Jung and became a central tenet of Jungian psychology.

I think this t-square also has a correlation with that perilous time he writes about in his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections," which he described as intense "confrontations with the unconscious," in which a death-rebirth drama took place.

His 1H Saturn in Aquarius reminds me of admissions he made in the chapter "Retrospect":

"The difference between most people and myself is that for me the 'dividing walls' are transparent. This is my peculiarity. Others find these walls so opaque that they see nothing behind them and therefore think nothing is there. To some extent, I perceive the processes going on in the background, and that gives me an inner certainty.

Knowledge of processes in the background early shaped my relationship to the world. Basically, that relationship was the same in my childhood as it is to this day. As a child, I felt myself to be alone, and I am still, because I know things and must hint at things which others apparently know nothing of, and for the most part do not want to know. Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible. The loneliness began with the experiences of my early dreams, and reached its climax at the time I was working on the unconscious. If a man knows more than others, he becomes lonely. But loneliness is not necessarily inimical to companionship, for no one is more sensitive to companionship than the lonely man, and companionship thrives only when each individual remembers his individuality and does not identify with others."

Memories, Dreams, Reflections

It's interesting that the loneliness and the separation he felt from others had to do with the world of the mind, and with ideas and knowledge. I've never thought of Saturn in Aquarius in this way until this moment.

posted July 04, 2015 07:55 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestskies88:
6'? I am not understanding...Neptune seems to be very far from where his Merc is

---

I should have clarified that I was looking at a 90 degree dial. Mercury/Neptune is 135 degrees from asc shy only 6 minutes. That midpoint is also accented by Mars.
We are all on the earth. The earth has peaks to its electromagnetic field at 45 degree.

Look at your own chart someday as it will help you understanding synergy, or rather how planets are affecting each other in a given chart.This is an indirect midpoint but very tight for a natal.
In an event chart orbs of less than a minute are often used.
Mercury/Neptune for Jung is strong and that makes very good sense and all midpoint should be examined with a focal planet. In this chart Neptune Square his Sun therefor is focal and any midpoint including a focal planet tight on asc is considered important whether direct or indirect.

posted July 04, 2015 08:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by peony:
Hi, Blue

Sure, the Neptune-Pluto MP on his Moon is part of it. I tend to use much wider orbs than people here, particularly with the luminaries, and so consider his Moon to be in aspect to Pluto.

Jung also has Sun-Neptune in major aspect, along with Moon-Neptune certainly correlates with the emphasis on archetypes generally, but in contrast to Freudian psychology, which is Plutonic (id, instincts, sexuality) rather than Neptunian, Jung was attuned to the more spiritual aspects which inform the psychology named after him. Also Neptunian is the more feminine and artistic sensibility of his psychology as opposed to Freud's more pronounced allegiance to the masculine-oriented Enlightenment and science.

The Saturn-Uranus-Pluto t-square is also significant in his chart and in his work. He displayed the typical Saturn-Uranus pattern of starting out within an established tradition with Freud, but then broke away, driven by his own creative daimon in a whole new direction.

The concept of the "shadow," relates to the Saturn-Pluto square in his chart. The shadow consists of the parts of us that we tend to deny and split off in the unconscious. The shadow is something that people with Saturn-Pluto in major aspect in their charts are highly sensitive to and aware of. It was a major preoccupation with Jung and became a central tenet of Jungian psychology.

I think this t-square also has a correlation with that perilous time he writes about in his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections," which he described as intense "confrontations with the unconscious," in which a death-rebirth drama took place.

His 1H Saturn in Aquarius reminds me of admissions he made in the chapter "Retrospect":

"The difference between most people and myself is that for me the 'dividing walls' are transparent. This is my peculiarity. Others find these walls so opaque that they see nothing behind them and therefore think nothing is there. To some extent, I perceive the processes going on in the background, and that gives me an inner certainty.

Knowledge of processes in the background early shaped my relationship to the world. Basically, that relationship was the same in my childhood as it is to this day. As a child, I felt myself to be alone, and I am still, because I know things and must hint at things which others apparently know nothing of, and for the most part do not want to know. Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible. The loneliness began with the experiences of my early dreams, and reached its climax at the time I was working on the unconscious. If a man knows more than others, he becomes lonely. But loneliness is not necessarily inimical to companionship, for no one is more sensitive to companionship than the lonely man, and companionship thrives only when each individual remembers his individuality and does not identify with others."

Memories, Dreams, Reflections

It's interesting that the loneliness and the separation he felt from others had to do with the world of the mind, and with ideas and knowledge. I've never thought of Saturn in Aquarius in this way until this moment.

---

Hello Peony!

Thanks for the in depth reading.

It's really interesting how Freud and Jung are the opposite of each other. Freud being more of the Masculine (consciousness), like you mentioned, which focused on the intellect / mind - Whilst, Jung focuses on the feminine (subconscious), feelings / heart. They are the polar opposites!

Jung also has Moon conj Pluto and Moon sq Uranus. The Moon-Pluto aspect shows his fear of his mother's emotionality and Moon-Uranus which would suggest a lack of emotional security and an unpredictable relationship with his mother.

Jung imbibed superstition almost literally with his mother’s milk, for Emilie Preiswerk was a psychic and an `uncanny’ to the point where her son was afraid of her at night. Photographs show her as a forbidding woman, and though she bore Jung when she was just twenty-seven, her youthful charms faded fast, to the point where she was considered ugly as well as domineering. At an early age Jung decided it would be dangerous to let her see too much of his inner life. Although after her death he was to claim that he derived from her an earthiness and a hearty animal warmth’, and that her intuitive gifts gave him the security to explore the depths of the psyche, this was hindsight rationalization. While she was alive he feared her in a very real sense, and her grip on him was such that, just before her death, when Jung was in his late forties, she suddenly appeared in his study, whispered a few `uncanny’ words and then vanished, leaving Jung unnerved by her visit and shaking like an aspen for hours afterwards. :shock:
http://jungcurrents.com/emilie-preiswert

posted July 05, 2015 07:00 AM            

Great idea, Blue!

Peony's analysis, as ever, is amazing!

posted July 05, 2015 09:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
BRILLIANT thread!

Great idea, Blue!

Peony's analysis, as ever, is amazing!

I've only recently started getting into Jungian psychology, but it feels like a piece of the puzzle that has always been missing in my life until now. I'm currently reading a book by him on dream analysis, he's an absolute genius. His Moon conjuncts my Moon by the way, I feel honoured by that!

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YaY!!

posted July 05, 2015 09:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Seimei:
I should have clarified that I was looking at a 90 degree dial. Mercury/Neptune is 135 degrees from asc shy only 6 minutes. That midpoint is also accented by Mars.
We are all on the earth. The earth has peaks to its electromagnetic field at 45 degree.

Look at your own chart someday as it will help you understanding synergy, or rather how planets are affecting each other in a given chart.This is an indirect midpoint but very tight for a natal.
In an event chart orbs of less than a minute are often used.
Mercury/Neptune for Jung is strong and that makes very good sense and all midpoint should be examined with a focal planet. In this chart Neptune Square his Sun therefor is focal and any midpoint including a focal planet tight on asc is considered important whether direct or indirect.

---

Thanks for the explanation

posted July 05, 2015 09:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestskies88:
here you go

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posted July 05, 2015 09:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peluches:
Thanks for the chart !

Well, his 12H ruler is in his 1H, and his 8H ruler and well as its intercepted sign's ruler are both conjunct in Cancer, on Sirius. His duad MOON falls at 6° SCO 36', opening his 9th house of higher education and philosophy, and just opposite his NEPTUNE. Fitting, eh ?

What are the degrees and minutes of his 8th, 9th and 12th house cusps ? Just curious.

---

What does this mean Pelsh?

posted July 05, 2015 04:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestskies88:
Jung also has Moon conj Pluto and Moon sq Uranus. The Moon-Pluto aspect shows his fear of his mother's emotionality and Moon-Uranus which would suggest a lack of emotional security and an unpredictable relationship with his mother.

---

It's been a long time since I read Jung's autobiography, but passages I read recently suggest he was afraid of an aspect of his mother's personality which he associated with "night." That sounds a lot like his Moon-Pluto-Saturn configuration, so "night" is a kind of shorthand for many things which astrologically fall under the Pluto-Saturn archetypes. To put it another way, he saw into her unconscious. But that's not all there is to this. Parental figures mediate archetypal energies, that's what gives them such power over a child's psyche. He had Moon-Uranus and both Saturn and Pluto in major aspect to his Moon. It was her and the archetypes of Pluto, Uranus, and Saturn-Pluto, which he saw through her. These planets can and do strike terror in a small child. Nevertheless, I think these same aspects played a necessary and significant role in his future work and mission.

quote:

---

Jung imbibed superstition almost literally with his mother’s milk, for Emilie Preiswerk was a psychic and an `uncanny’ to the point where her son was afraid of her at night. Photographs show her as a forbidding woman, and though she bore Jung when she was just twenty-seven, her youthful charms faded fast, to the point where she was considered ugly as well as domineering. At an early age Jung decided it would be dangerous to let her see too much of his inner life. Although after her death he was to claim that he derived from her an earthiness and a hearty animal warmth’, and that her intuitive gifts gave him the security to explore the depths of the psyche, this was hindsight rationalization. While she was alive he feared her in a very real sense, and her grip on him was such that, just before her death, when Jung was in his late forties, she suddenly appeared in his study, whispered a few `uncanny’ words and then vanished, leaving Jung unnerved by her visit and shaking like an aspen for hours afterwards. :shock:
http://jungcurrents.com/emilie-preiswert

---

I was unable to go directly to this writer's sources because the links don't work in order to verify this person's statements. But, I think it's obvious from reading mine that my take on Jung is different.

quote:

---

What would his Moon sq Saturn aspect translate to?

---

Taking the Saturn aspect to Jung's Moon separately, and using only Jung's autobiography as source material, he described his mother as conventional which fits Moon in Taurus square Saturn. Of course, he's just talking about her conscious personality and he has a lot of complimentary things to say about this side of her, that don't conform to this aspect at all. In other places, he reports that she is sometimes stern and critical, and that does equate with Moon-Saturn.

Both Moon-Saturn and Moon-Pluto describe the "dark Mother," and there are many figures in fairy tales and myth that personify this for example, Kali in Hindu mythology. The fairy tale Hansel and Gretel presents us with two images: the cold-hearted woodcutter's wife and the gingerbread witch.

I understood that you wanted to know how Moon-Saturn played out in Jung's life, so my comments were geared to that. But, let me know if I've misunderstood your question.

posted July 05, 2015 07:49 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by peony:
Hi, Blue

Sure, the Neptune-Pluto MP on his Moon is part of it. I tend to use much wider orbs than people here, particularly with the luminaries, and so consider his Moon to be in aspect to Pluto.

Jung also has Sun-Neptune in major aspect, along with Moon-Neptune certainly correlates with the emphasis on archetypes generally, but in contrast to Freudian psychology, which is Plutonic (id, instincts, sexuality) rather than Neptunian, Jung was attuned to the more spiritual aspects which inform the psychology named after him. Also Neptunian is the more feminine and artistic sensibility of his psychology as opposed to Freud's more pronounced allegiance to the masculine-oriented Enlightenment and science.

The Saturn-Uranus-Pluto t-square is also significant in his chart and in his work. He displayed the typical Saturn-Uranus pattern of starting out within an established tradition with Freud, but then broke away, driven by his own creative daimon in a whole new direction.

The concept of the "shadow," relates to the Saturn-Pluto square in his chart. The shadow consists of the parts of us that we tend to deny and split off in the unconscious. The shadow is something that people with Saturn-Pluto in major aspect in their charts are highly sensitive to and aware of. It was a major preoccupation with Jung and became a central tenet of Jungian psychology.

I think this t-square also has a correlation with that perilous time he writes about in his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections," which he described as intense "confrontations with the unconscious," in which a death-rebirth drama took place.

His 1H Saturn in Aquarius reminds me of admissions he made in the chapter "Retrospect":

"The difference between most people and myself is that for me the 'dividing walls' are transparent. This is my peculiarity. Others find these walls so opaque that they see nothing behind them and therefore think nothing is there. To some extent, I perceive the processes going on in the background, and that gives me an inner certainty.

Knowledge of processes in the background early shaped my relationship to the world. Basically, that relationship was the same in my childhood as it is to this day. As a child, I felt myself to be alone, and I am still, because I know things and must hint at things which others apparently know nothing of, and for the most part do not want to know. Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible. The loneliness began with the experiences of my early dreams, and reached its climax at the time I was working on the unconscious. If a man knows more than others, he becomes lonely. But loneliness is not necessarily inimical to companionship, for no one is more sensitive to companionship than the lonely man, and companionship thrives only when each individual remembers his individuality and does not identify with others."

Memories, Dreams, Reflections

It's interesting that the loneliness and the separation he felt from others had to do with the world of the mind, and with ideas and knowledge. I've never thought of Saturn in Aquarius in this way until this moment.

---

posted July 05, 2015 07:59 PM              

I think his shadow concept is very much related to his Jupiter/Pluto quincunx and with Moon/Pluto in the 3rd. You see, Jupiter in the 8th is like Zeus visiting Hades.

Very Uranian fellow, despite the more "conservative" placements. Even today, he is a mind of the future.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted July 05, 2015 08:41 PM            

That's disturbing. o.O

But thanks for posting... had no idea.