posted August 09, 2015 10:17 AM            

Thoughts anyone, I know venus and mars in leo are ain ( I am one) So I find that the stories of her bathing in blood are probably true.

posted August 09, 2015 05:13 PM            

I think you need to look at nessus-dejanira, apophis, cybele, lucifer and other similar types of asteroids and centaurs to understand her behavior.

posted August 09, 2015 07:07 PM            

Btw, you might be interested to hear of vampire facials...and I'm sharing because maybe I'm thinking of number four of unusual beauty treatments:

quote:

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Placenta Face Cream

The placenta has another use other than feeding an unborn baby - as an anti-ageing beauty cream! For the cream, lamb placental extract is taken to create a potent lotion which rich in nutrients and bio-stimulants, promising to revitalise and moisturise your skin.

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This isn't a justification of what she did but to remember that people were raised very differently back then before the Enlightenment. Just as many of us couldn't slaughter and eat cats there are countries where they were raised that cats are food and have no problem caging, butchering, and serving them up and are baffled or bemused by the outrage we have over it.

A similar process is in work here where Bathory was raised to see peasants as just another form of livestock which means that she wouldn't see them as people and therefore having all the rights as say we'd give sheep and this is right and proper to her. Furthermore the people of the time were desensitized to the sheer barbarous cruelty handed out over the least and trivial offenses at the time and on a regular basis (many obeyed royalty out of terror rather than desire for reward). That was how she was raised and therefore she's not necessarily anymore narcissist than those today who use sheep's blood and body for better appearances. And when people are dehumanized they can be treated in all sorts of vile ways that seem right and proper even in our relatively enlightened times.

Still, the stories are pretty horrible even when taking that into mind (especially if she watched the killings as the tales say rather than simply order them). Unfortunately the legends lie so much that we can't really know what went on (it probably wasn't as bad as portrayed though then again it might actually be even worse). Stories keep telling of a servant or mentor outside the royalty who advised her (and led to her bathing in the blood of young virgins, which would reflect the magical worldview of the time) and I bet that was some snake oil salesman who convinced Bathory to do this to retain her beauty (possibly stoking her fears of what would be done to her as she got older) so he could milk her luxuries for himself as much as possible.

posted August 09, 2015 07:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Keep in mind that Bathory was royalty while the peasants were seen as livestock, really little better than sheep. And today (or at least a decade ago) many cosmetics (as well as tanning lotions, hand and shaving cream, etc) contain sheep fat and even placenta. I'm sure I read of the blood of lambs being used in a cosmetic product to give younger looking skin.

Btw, you might be interested to hear of vampire facials...and I'm sharing because maybe I'm thinking of number four of unusual beauty treatments:

This isn't a justification of what she did but to remember that people were raised very differently back then before the Enlightenment. Just as many of us couldn't slaughter and eat cats there are countries where they were raised that cats are food and have no problem caging, butchering, and serving them up and are baffled or bemused by the outrage we have over it.

A similar process is in work here where Bathory was raised to see peasants as just another form of livestock which means that she wouldn't see them as people and therefore having all the rights as say we'd give sheep and this is right and proper to her. Furthermore the people of the time were desensitized to the sheer barbarous cruelty handed out over the least and trivial offenses at the time and on a regular basis (many obeyed royalty out of terror rather than desire for reward). That was how she was raised and therefore she's not necessarily anymore narcissist than those today who use sheep's blood and body for better appearances. And when people are dehumanized they can be treated in all sorts of vile ways that seem right and proper even in our relatively enlightened times.

Still, the stories are pretty horrible even when taking that into mind (especially if she watched the killings as the tales say rather than simply order them). Unfortunately the legends lie so much that we can't really know what went on (it probably wasn't as bad as portrayed though then again it might actually be even worse). Stories keep telling of a servant or mentor outside the royalty who advised her (and led to her bathing in the blood of young virgins, which would reflect the magical worldview of the time) and I bet that was some snake oil salesman who convinced Bathory to do this to retain her beauty (possibly stoking her fears of what would be done to her as she got older) so he could milk her luxuries for himself as much as possible.

I certainly hold no fondness for the Blood Countess but if you want to understand her (and what her placements mean) then you have to take the context of the times into account rather than assuming they saw the world with the same sensibilities that we were raised with. I'm fairly certain that if Elizabeth Bathory were born today and raised with modern sensibilities that she would not grow up inclined to bathe in the blood of young girls even if she had the same natal chart otherwise.

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Great points and thanks for sharing. I was reading this blog about her which tries to break down which parts of the stories are true referring to charges made on her lifetime and which one were charges made after her lifetime and probably myths. It seems that the virgin blood bath falls under the charges made after her lifetime and appear to be a myth: http://www.rejectedprincesses.com/princesses/elisabeth-bathory

Regardless she seems pretty horrific and she has been labelled by Guinness World Records as the most prolific female murderer but you are right that is important to look at this in the context of her time and what the social norms were then as they were clearly different from the social norms we have today. Regardless people from her time arrested her and put her in jail so even they found her horrific.

posted August 09, 2015 08:20 PM            

NESSUS conjunct CERES exact*
LUST square NESSUS-CERES*
DEJANIRA conjuncts ALGOL*
DEJANIRA conjuncts LUCIFER*
NEPTUNE conjunct CYBELE
KARMA-LILITH-JUPITER Stellium in ARIES

SUN-MERCURY-MARS stellium square ERIS
Pluto sextile ERIS
Pluto conjunct NORTHNODE
Mars inconjuncts PLUTO-NORTHNODE
http://www.tamsoft.co.in/evil.html

Info about Cybele: http://darkstarastrology.com/asteroid-cybele/

Here is her chart:

posted August 09, 2015 10:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Actually her moon is in libra if we put her time of birth at noon as we don't know her TOB.
Also her venus is in cancer and mars in Leo.

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posted August 09, 2015 10:24 PM            

You cant speak about a sociopath or psychopath and think is a LEO thing. You would have to really dig deep and many markers would be involved to explain that level of craziness.[/QUOTE

As Have I which I have the same plaents which makes me think this is ludicrous. They say she loved her family tho

posted August 09, 2015 10:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I FOUND THE FOLLOWING ASPECTS:

LUST square NESSUS*
DEJANIRA conjuncts ALGOL*
DEJANIRA conjuncts LUCIFER*
NEPTUNE conjunct CYBELE
KARMA-LILITH-JUPITER Stellium in ARIES

SUN-MERCURY-MARS stellium square ERIS
Pluto sextile ERIS
Pluto conjunct NORTHNODE
Mars inconjuncts PLUTO-NORTHNODE
http://www.tamsoft.co.in/evil.html

Info about Cybele: http://darkstarastrology.com/asteroid-cybele/

Here is her chart:

---

posted August 09, 2015 10:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
WOW that is seriously disgusting and sick and has nothing to do with venus-mars in Leo. Anything blood creeps me out and repulses me and I have venus-mars in Leo with Sun in virgo and Mooon in Pisces. BTW I am not vain at least no were near that level as I have a compassionate and down to earth side that is stronger than my vain side, check out narcissus in her chart maybe is very pronounced.

I think you need to look at nessus-dejanira, apophis, cybele, lucifer and other similar types of asteroids and centaurs to understand her behavior.

You cant speak about a sociopath or psychopath and think is a LEO thing. You would have to really dig deep and many markers would be involved to explain that level of craziness.

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As a person also with venus mars in leo, I can poke fun at it..
And pisces moon virgo sun.
I can poke fun at it.

posted August 09, 2015 11:07 PM            

The entire time I have been posting to this thread my intention was to be helpful and link you to information that could help you understand astrology better and Elizabeth better.

I do find what she did repulsive but I watch game of thrones, walking dead, hannibal, and the strain. Just because I don't like the idea of a blood bath doesn't mean that I don't want to study why people would do something like that from a psychological and astrological stand point.

I have been studying astrology for over 15 years and the asteroids complete the story. I went as far as to create a chart for this thread which shows that I find it interesting and wanted to contribute to it but you took it differently.

posted August 10, 2015 01:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
Keep in mind that Bathory was royalty while the peasants were seen as livestock, really little better than sheep. And today (or at least a decade ago) many cosmetics (as well as tanning lotions, hand and shaving cream, etc) contain sheep fat and even placenta. I'm sure I read of the blood of lambs being used in a cosmetic product to give younger looking skin.

Btw, you might be interested to hear of vampire facials...and I'm sharing because maybe I'm thinking of number four of unusual beauty treatments:

This isn't a justification of what she did but to remember that people were raised very differently back then before the Enlightenment. Just as many of us couldn't slaughter and eat cats there are countries where they were raised that cats are food and have no problem caging, butchering, and serving them up and are baffled or bemused by the outrage we have over it.

A similar process is in work here where Bathory was raised to see peasants as just another form of livestock which means that she wouldn't see them as people and therefore having all the rights as say we'd give sheep and this is right and proper to her. Furthermore the people of the time were desensitized to the sheer barbarous cruelty handed out over the least and trivial offenses at the time and on a regular basis (many obeyed royalty out of terror rather than desire for reward). That was how she was raised and therefore she's not necessarily anymore narcissist than those today who use sheep's blood and body for better appearances. And when people are dehumanized they can be treated in all sorts of vile ways that seem right and proper even in our relatively enlightened times.

Still, the stories are pretty horrible even when taking that into mind (especially if she watched the killings as the tales say rather than simply order them). Unfortunately the legends lie so much that we can't really know what went on (it probably wasn't as bad as portrayed though then again it might actually be even worse). Stories keep telling of a servant or mentor outside the royalty who advised her (and led to her bathing in the blood of young virgins, which would reflect the magical worldview of the time) and I bet that was some snake oil salesman who convinced Bathory to do this to retain her beauty (possibly stoking her fears of what would be done to her as she got older) so he could milk her luxuries for himself as much as possible.

I certainly hold no fondness for the Blood Countess but if you want to understand her (and what her placements mean) then you have to take the context of the times into account rather than assuming they saw the world with the same sensibilities that we were raised with. I'm fairly certain that if Elizabeth Bathory were born today and raised with modern sensibilities that she would not grow up inclined to bathe in the blood of young girls even if she had the same natal chart otherwise.

---

posted August 10, 2015 01:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LexusVirgo:
Oh okay then I apologize to you then thank you for the help. I am actually glad that she does not have the same placements as me then. I do not think that a moon in pisces could to that (If she did that)

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I love that you started this thread..keep them coming! .

I haven't played with the TOB, perhaps there is a possibility if I change the time that she may have moon in SCORPIO but yeah its hard to belief a moon in pisces could do that. As a moon in pisces its hard to see people in pain and not feel pain or want to relief the pain.

posted August 10, 2015 01:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
Thanks for that
I kind of understand her. Kind of.
We have interesting synastry! Lol

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posted August 10, 2015 01:55 AM            

So for those who like asteroids I checked were her Hannibal was and it conjuncts her Uranus and squares her Sun-Mercury-Mars which in turn squares Eris which opposes uranus-hannibal forming a tsquare with sun-mercury-mars at the apex and mars inconjuncting pluto-NN..

She was into spells and magic:
"Baked a magical poisonous cake in order to kill a rival magistrate, George Thurzo (who was also the guy who arrested her — more on him in a bit)."
"Cast a magic spell to summon a cloud filled with ninety cats to torment her enemies. Okay, that’s actually kind of awesome."

She has venus conjunct hekate squaring Lilith-Jupiter-Karma stellium.

posted August 10, 2015 02:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
What synastry aspects do the two of you have that catch your attention? and in what ways do you understand her ? What do you feel you have in common with her?

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Her Sun-Mercury is conjunct my AC, her Moon opposes my Moon, her Jupiter-Lilith conjuncts my Moon, Venus trine Pluto DW, her Saturn opposes my Sun, her Juno is conjunct my SN and her Uranus conjuncts my NN. Hah

posted August 10, 2015 04:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:

I think it's actually kind of beautiful, except for the part where you take someone's life. That's pretty disrespectful. But, at least she understood exactly what she was doing. She was aware of how powerful we are as living beings, and seemed to respect it to an extreme degree - she was just totally selfish and had to have all the power for herself. I guess on some level it's better than thinking of people as useless sacks of bones, or as mere instruments *for manipulation, like some killers do.

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What gives you the impression she understood what she was doing?

What gives you the impression she understood how powerful we are as human beings and that she seemed to RESPECT this to an extreme degree? What gives you the impression that she didn't see people as useless sacks of bones?

posted August 10, 2015 04:26 AM            

So the torturings and killings started in 1585 according to wiki and so I checked the transits.

Transit Pluto was conjuncting her natal Nessus that year.

Transit Eris conjunt Transit Cybele was conjuncting her natal Dejanira-Lucifer conjunction.

Transit Karma was conjuncting her natal Eris-Juno.

posted August 10, 2015 05:35 AM            

I don't like the idea of associating serial murder - with a person's natal chart... or saying that this behaviour was a manifestation of their chart, rather than their free will - or sick mind.

From what I've been reading about her - she could have been born mentally ill.

Alternatively, she could have developed a mental illness following the murder of her infant child:

quote:

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Two years after the arrangement of their marriage, Elizabeth, at thirteen years old, became pregnant by one of the servants at Castle Sárvár, named László Bende. Although Ferenc was not more than eighteen years old, he delivered a blunt punishment to the young server. Ferenc had him castrated and, immediately afterwards, thrown to a pack of dogs. Elizabeth was taken to another Nádasdy castle, where she gave birth in 1574, in secret, to a daughter named Anastasiá Báthory. Ferenc ensured that the infant child remained a secret and was swiftly unassociated with the family; no documentation on the infant has ever been recovered leading to the belief that Ferenc had the baby killed.

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Or following the death of her other child:

quote:

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András Nádasdy (b.1596 - d.1603 at the age of 7)

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A third option (very unlikely!) is that she didn't commit the murders at all:

quote:

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Several authors such as László Nagy and Dr. Irma Szádeczky-Kardoss have argued that Elizabeth Báthory was a victim of a conspiracy.[27][28] Nagy argued that the proceedings against Báthory were largely politically motivated. The theory is consistent with Hungarian history at that time, which included religious and political conflict, especially relating to the wars with the Ottoman Empire, the spread of Protestantism and the extension of Habsburg power over Hungary.

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posted August 10, 2015 07:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
She was accused while alive of forcing her servants to cook and eat their own flesh (usually from the buttocks), or make sausages and serve it to guests.

So for those who like asteroids I checked were her Hannibal was and it conjuncts her Uranus and squares her Sun-Mercury-Mars which in turn squares Eris which opposes uranus-hannibal forming a tsquare with sun-mercury-mars at the apex and mars inconjuncting pluto-NN..

She was into spells and magic:
"Baked a magical poisonous cake in order to kill a rival magistrate, George Thurzo (who was also the guy who arrested her — more on him in a bit)."
"Cast a magic spell to summon a cloud filled with ninety cats to torment her enemies. Okay, that’s actually kind of awesome."

She has venus conjunct hekate squaring Lilith-Jupiter-Karma stellium.

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Yep, they say she was heavy into satanism and she supposedly had an affair with a man who came to the castle dressed I. All black rumor has it he was satan. She even left her husband for him the. I guess he grew tired of her or something because her husband took her back.