posted October 07, 2015 06:50 PM            

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
These might be cultural issues rather than universal gender issues...

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Yeah, my closest friends tend to be female, though I typically have way more guys as casual friends.

And yet there were times in my life that girls were rare to almost nonexistent at friends. When I was 6 all the girls my age (at least within my neighborhood) started shunning me (in retrospect, I think a parent may have caused that to happen)which left me with the boys to play with, an interesting experience (and I think my 5H Sag/3H Libra chart with splash of Scorpio was well-suited for) and one I don't regret...I've had one foot in boy & girl world ever since. And yet socializing with boys (not purely so, of course, like get into a scrap with boys and either a mother or father could come out to discipline the boy when that wouldn't have happened if I were a boy, and then there was the one time I got a boy to play dress up with me when we were 9-10, something his parents did NOT appreciate.... ) encouraged my Sag traits of saying what I thought and acting a bit masculine without the mind games and values of girls. That would later make me more popular with boys as I got older as they didn't have to second guess everything I said and did which made me "competition" to the other girls who hated me more for it, that and not playing that game of propping each other up while putting one's self down which I didn't see a point in. Holy crap, the hatred of some of those girls...glad I'm not in school anymore!

Even then I often had at least one girl I was very close to (at least since I was 10), but one year was so bad that only one girl would have anything at all to do with me, no other girl would (though to be fair, some were just too scared of being targeted by the mean girls if they did).

posted October 07, 2015 06:51 PM            

Even when such media TRIED to be more enlightening it fell to the same formula in the end, man rescues woman and the female enemies are punished. When you're raised on that formula then it coaxes your brain to see things a certain way and I see why many women are the way they are (especially when taking other social factors into account, and of course there are notable cultural differences to be found which can also be explained in ways I understand).

But for lesbians and asexuals, we generally weren't interested in "getting the man" so we shied away from that and many lesbians and asexuals (and I'm not exception), along with plenty of straight women who were wired very similarly to us, were instead raised on scifi/fantasy instead which depict women, including heroines in a very different light (Isaac Asimov beat second wave feminism with his female heroines by over a decade, IIRC, let alone Joss Whedon--granted, such heroines were more clever, intelligent, and resourceful rather than butt kicking, but so were his male heroes).

Women were often just as important and saved the guys heroically just as the reverse also happened, women also saved each other rather than being in competition (though women could also be powerful villains along with men, and not just in the sneaky way of romance novels, she could be a cruel queen with magical powers or an army of warbots or a fleet at her command, and the heroes & heroines had to team up to stop her), and women also had other matters than finding Mr. Right (when it happened, men were also interested, rather than the moody man who had to be won in the romance novels, I don't recall any Christian Greys or Edward Cullens offhand--well I do, but they were the villains) or domestic that were IMPORTANT (and their dialog reflected that), both to her and to others, and that shaped us to view ourselves and our place in the world and how we got along with others.

posted October 08, 2015 01:49 PM            

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Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
To me it's petty, jealous, and it's so broad to say you don't get along with other women.

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See, to me it's petty, and so broad to say THAT about other women who say they have trouble relating to other women. You're sort of proving the point. When women who have this problem try to talk about it or reach out for support... then out of the woodwork come the women who don't have this problem to tell us how wrong WE are for having it. We're criticized because we aren't part of the Girl Power Parade.

If you've been blessed with nothing but great, warm, supportive relationships with fellow females, then I am genuinely happy for you. Some of us have afflicted Moons in our charts, though, and have struggles with relating to other women. We never said we don't love other women. I love my fellow females dearly, but caring about someone and being able to easily and comfortably relate to them aren't always the same thing. Anyone who's ever known love of any kind knows that.

I think this thread was just meaning to understand what it is in the natal chart that might indicate the native will have this struggle as part of their journey in life. Not that we just hate women. That's overly simplistic.

posted October 08, 2015 03:13 PM            

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Originally posted by Wild Horses:
See, to me it's petty, and so broad to say THAT about other women who say they have trouble relating to other women. You're sort of proving the point. When women who have this problem try to talk about it or reach out for support... then out of the woodwork come the women who don't have this problem to tell us how wrong WE are for having it. We're criticized because we aren't part of the Girl Power Parade.

If you've been blessed with nothing but great, warm, supportive relationships with fellow females, then I am genuinely happy for you. Some of us have afflicted Moons in our charts, though, and have struggles with relating to other women. We never said we don't love other women. I love my fellow females dearly, but caring about someone and being able to easily and comfortably relate to them aren't always the same thing. Anyone who's ever known love of any kind knows that.

I think this thread was just meaning to understand what it is in the natal chart that might indicate the native will have this struggle as part of their journey in life. Not that we just hate women. That's overly simplistic.

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posted October 08, 2015 03:32 PM            

My Venus is in Taurus and it's nicely aspected - apart from a 4 degree out of sign opposition to Pluto - and I don't really get along with the average female.

posted October 08, 2015 03:44 PM            

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Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
Sorry I'm just sharing my perception.
And the fact that you're trying to reach out and connect with other women even over the fact that you have a hard time relating to other women shows that you're not exactly who I'm talking about. I'm talking about women who never even try with other women.
And I do have moon opposite Mars and conjunct Lilith. Also Venus opposite Pluto. I have difficult relationships with women too, but I try not to see it as a "women" thing. Everyone is an individual who deserves a chance. I think people in general are just difficult lol.
The "petty and jealous" comment was really more about my sister. She IS petty and jealous.

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It's okay, no problem. I just really wanted to be clear that it's often not an issue of not wanting to have relationships with other women, but more an issue of having trouble navigating those waters.

In my case, my Moon is @ 25°50' Virgo, and my Venus is @ 25°57' Gemini, Sun @ 27°21' Gemini, so even though there is that conflicting energy, there is also a deeply felt need and hunger for relationships with other women. That tight square creates a very strong drive to work on the issue and overcome it.

posted October 08, 2015 03:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Wild Horses:

It's okay, no problem. I just really wanted to be clear that it's often not an issue of not wanting to have relationships with other women, but more an issue of having trouble navigating those waters.

In my case, my Moon is @ 25°50' Virgo, and my Venus is @ 25°57' Gemini, Sun @ 27°21' Gemini, so even though there is that conflicting energy, there is also a deeply felt need and hunger for relationships with other women. That tight square creates a very strong drive to work on the issue and overcome it.

Also, I hear ya on the sister probs. My sister is like that. Sadly, she's very much like that. We even had a major falling out once because she blew up at me because she was a single mom and I was a married mom. She was very bitter and full of resentment over the fact that I had a husband to raise my children with and she didn't. It hurt me to my core because I was doing everything I could to help her and support her emotionally, financially, and psychologically, but she couldn't get over her irritation over our different situations. She eventually left my nephew with me to raise, and my husband and I raised him like one of our own children, but she just remained bitter that I had a husband and she didn't. I honestly was at a loss and didn't know how to deal with her anymore. What did she expect me to do, divorce my husband so that she and I could be in the same boat? So, yeah, I get the sister thing.

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posted October 08, 2015 03:59 PM            

quote:

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I think this thread was just meaning to understand what it is in the natal chart that might indicate the native will have this struggle as part of their journey in life. Not that we just hate women. That's overly simplistic.

[/B]

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Yes, exactly....the **ASTROLOGY** of this feeling and experience. I knew this would somehow get out of hand and turn into some soapbox opinion piece. Thank you, Wild horses, Athenaia and others who understood the question 100% and stayed on topic...and shared their experiences. Thank you.I am sorry that, surprise, surprise people would start implying rather simplistic ideas towards such experiences.

I never once said I "hated" other women. I said that I have barely any women friends, as I get along with older men and gay men the most. I wanted to know if anyone who had similar Astro/ Venus placements experienced the same. The answer was yes...and the rest, I am not even going to comment on. I think the above quote said it best.

posted October 08, 2015 04:11 PM            

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Originally posted by tbelle:
Yes, exactly....the **ASTROLOGY** of this feeling and experience. I knew this would somehow get out of hand and turn into some soapbox opinion piece. Thank you, Wild horses, Athenaia and others who understood the question 100% and stayed on topic...and shared their experiences. Thank you.I am sorry that, surprise, surprise people would start implying rather simplistic ideas towards such experiences.

I never once said I "hated" other women. I said that I have barely any women friends, as I get along with older men and gay men the most. I wanted to know if anyone who had similar Astro/ Venus placements experienced the same. The answer was yes...and the rest, I am not even going to comment on. I think the above quote said it best.

Thank you.

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Not sure if you're referring to me or not, but I explained myself. I apologize if I offended anyone, but I only said anything cause I was having this conversation literally yesterday.

My astrological opinion of this would be maybe moon or Venus in the twelfth or maybe sixth in addition to harsh aspects. Personally I have moon in sixth, and I feel judged by other women a lot. I receive a lot of criticism on my parenting style, how I carry myself, my thoughts and opinions, whatever. I have rough relationships with other women wherever I go. But I really crave that connection with my peers.

posted October 08, 2015 04:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
My astrological opinion of this would be maybe moon or Venus in the twelfth or maybe sixth in addition to harsh aspects. Personally I have moon in sixth, and I feel judged by other women a lot. I receive a lot of criticism on my parenting style, how I carry myself, my thoughts and opinions, whatever. I have rough relationships with other women wherever I go. But I really crave that connection with my peers.

I also have Mars in the twelfth though, which maybe makes me feel more uncomfortable with men. Like at least when I'm "enemies" with a woman it feels all out in the open.

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I don't know if Moon in the 6th would contribute to you feeling judged on those issue. I have a Virgo Moon, which is similar in it's feel to a 6th house Moon, and I think that aspect would make us tend to be the ones doing some criticizing.

Are there afflictions to your 5th house ruler or planets in your 5th receiving harsh aspects, since you mentioned the criticism involving your parenting style and aspects of self expression. Whatever the reason, just don't let those people rent space in your head. Do the very best you are able to do and forget what anyone's opinion of it is.

I also have Mars in the 12th. I get along great with men, but I do think my Mars in the 12th makes me idealize them.

posted October 08, 2015 05:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Wild Horses:
I don't know if Moon in the 6th would contribute to you feeling judged on those issue. I have a Virgo Moon, which is similar in it's feel to a 6th house Moon, and I think that aspect would make us tend to be the ones doing some criticizing.

Are there afflictions to your 5th house ruler or planets in your 5th receiving harsh aspects, since you mentioned the criticism involving your parenting style and aspects of self expression. Whatever the reason, just don't let those people rent space in your head. Do the very best you are able to do and forget what anyone's opinion of it is.

I also have Mars in the 12th. I get along great with men, but I do think my Mars in the 12th makes me idealize them.

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