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Author
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Topic: Sun in Aries and pioneering
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Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 08:23 AM
  
Now here is a contraversial thought. Astrology teaches us that Aries Suns are pioneers of the Zodiac, leading the way for all the others, but it takes a lot of determination, willpower and hard work to actually become a pioneer in anything, which is something Aries Suns lack. Therefore, it's my opinion that Aries Suns are not really that good at being the first, except maybe when it comes to "micro" pioneering,such as doing something their friends and families are reluctunt to do just to prove the point. To prove my hypothesis, I took some time to look for famous adventurers, pioneers, innovaters or, in other words,the famous firsts, focusing only on their Sun sign (I've included some of the lists I used in this experiment at the end of this post).I'd like to add that I didn't include any art form because I wanted to concentrate on the areas we usually consider "pioneering". Also, the birthdata of most famous explorers cannot be found, so I can't claim that there were no Aries Suns in that field.
As it turned out,and quite unsurprisingly, fixed signs are most common on most lists, with some differences when it comes to different fields (for example, Leos are more common when it comes to adventuring, Taurus in politics and natural science, and Aquas are just about everywhere). There are also a lot of Cancers and, of course, Capricorns and Virgos, and a whole bunch of designated astrological scaterheads such as Pisces and Geminis, all doing great things in science, politics, human rights, adventuring, innovating, you name it. Aries Suns? Good luck finding them on the lists!
Anyway, my conclusion is that Aries Suns are actually lousy at pioneering. Yes, there are some good Aries athletes and artists out there, but as soon as there is a task that needs extensive preparation, practice, diplomacy, fundraising, compromise, patience and tact, which are, let's face it, the qualities we need to actually make groundbreaking discoveries and set new standards on this planet, Aries Suns are nowhere to be found. To make a long story short, it's my conclusion that Aries Suns are neither leaders nor pioneers and their only leadership-like quality is to call other people who doubt themselves stupid, telling them they can actually do everything they want if they put some effort in it. Aries Suns, on the other hand, have hardly any patience, determination and perservance to do the heavy lifting themselves.Links; http://www.cheapflights.com/news/10-modern-day-kick-ass-female-adventurers/[/URL]
http://www.ranker.com/list/list-of-famous-adventurers/reference?utm_expid=16418821-154.rT8cPvUmQNuj_-gE4I98Fw.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.hr%2F[/URL]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women%27s_firsts http://www.infoplease.com/spot/womensfirsts2.html http://startupguide.com/world/greatest-innovators/ https://www.women.cs.cmu.edu/ada/Resources/Women/
http://famous-explorers.org/
http://www.ranker.com/list/list-of-famous-adventurers/reference?utm_expid=16418821-154.rT8cPvUmQNuj_-gE4I98Fw.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.hr%2F IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 7129
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted October 11, 2015 09:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kibriana:
Aries Suns? Good luck finding them on the lists!
I did very easily. I'm freshly awake, not even had breakfast, and I just googled mountain climbers and born April and got some names. I offer up these two: Alison Levine (and note her illness that didn't prevent her accomplishments! And it doesn't appear she had sponsors to put her in those places, she must have had some diplomacy skills as well as an iron will, patience, and self-discipline. And more! Plus her advice to others which doesn't include calling them stupid, unless you assume that's the implication for her saying not to give up.) Jon Krakaeur Note, there were more, but I didn't want just "any mountain climbers" (even if such adventure isn't for the undisciplined), I just chose two that should fit your criteria (dismissing them given their accomplishments would seem very arbitrary to me), and because I'm not fully awake yet. I decided to try something similar with authors and found some big names (and if Hans Christian Andersen doesn't fit your criteria, then I'd like to know why!) on this list:
http://librarybooklists.org/literarybirths/bapril.htm
Given how easy that was I wonder how easy looking up other things that way would be? You didn't find any. I did. In mere seconds.
That said, speaking of Arian energy alone, I can see your point, just not the simplicity of it. quote:
Originally posted by Kibriana:
it's my conclusion that Aries Suns are neither leaders nor pioneers and their only leadership-like quality is to call other people who doubt themselves stupid, telling them they can actually do everything they want if they put some effort in it.
Love the way you worded that.  But I expect they don't really want that anyway. That is, they don't have aspirations to be such a pioneer, not based on sun sign alone. I see the energy as more of The Fool as opposed to being literal. Obviously, if they do seek to expand the frontiers or accomplish some epic task then the rest of the chart would benefit from fixed placements or have people with him who helped (in which case, cardinal placements). Oh, and of course they don't go around calling others stupid for not living your dreams. I'm sure you know one or two who did that to you for you to come to that conclusion since I don't see how you could base that even if you were right that no such innovators existed, so I'm guessing personal experience, and now the entire sun sign must be painted with the same brush.
quote:
Originally posted by Kibriana:
Aries Suns, on the other hand, have hardly any patience, determination and perservance to do the heavy lifting themselves
Here I can say that my Aries grandmother left a commune because she was tired of taking care of the males, she and other women. She was told that the commune would help her (a struggling single mother at the time) take care of the kids, but she not only had to take care of her kids and the others, but also the men who considered themselves visionaries and such, but essentially big babies who needed to be fed and cared for. What the men finally did outraged many of the women there and Granny left...probably other women did as well. In any case, the commune finally fell apart, probably because the women stopped doing the heavy lifting...and given that the men there were very democratic (but women didn't get to vote, or it was ignored when they did), can't blame it on an Aries since I doubt that many Arians could've gotten along through a democratic process (my granny said to hell with their democracy, and good for her, especially when she wasn't allowed a say anyway, just the "honor" of helping take care of htem). My mother remembers being there as a child, and going by what she has to say--a Scorpio like her never forgets--well, it's so vile I won't even share it, and it ranks as among the biggest reason why my mom hates her mom/my granny. It's true that I doubt a Scorpio would've been foolish enough to go there (as opposed to my Aries grandmother who figured a good attitude was all you needed, and hey, when it works, it's great, it's when it doesn't that problems happen), and if she did, she'd sure as hell gotten some revenge that would also prevent some future harm instead of saying "I'm out of here" and leaving as Granny did. From what I heard, a Scorpio approach would've been more appropriate than an Arian, in that case. (OTOH, if my Mom had been an Aries sun instead of Scorpio then I bet her experiences wouldn't have left her so bitter.) That said, Granny was much more responsible than Mom when it came to taking care of kids, even when she was younger...but then Mom set the bar pretty low so that's not necessarily saying much, and I can imagine Granny's parenting style would seem lackadaisical and even irresponsible (though well meaning) to plenty of others (not that I'm complaining, her mistakes in her youth before I was born not withstanding). IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 10:15 AM
Thank you very much for your answer, PixieJane. Now, I'd just like to clear thing up a bit. I based my search criteria on people who were the first to do / discover something - pathblazers, inventors, innovators, originators, groundbreakers. Also, I didn't want to include artists, writers and musicians. It is said that Aries Suns, being the first, are here to do things that no one else has done before. But, looking at the list of the famous firsts, there are surprisingly few Aries Suns on them. I'm thinking globally here.
The situation is different on a more personal level, and the amazing story you shared proves that. Aries will do the things their friends and families won't, but I don't think they do that in the spirit of pioneering - they just don't want to do the same ol' stuff anymore because they don't feel like it. So let's say they are in the middle of a group of people who can't decide where to go out. Aries will decide for them and lead the way simply because they are sick and tired of listening to them. Aries do thing because they are bored and because they've had enough of whatever they've had enough of. It's spontaneous and spontaneity does not include preparation and waiting. Aries leadership is personal, not global, because to do something new and original and unheard of on a global level you need to be more organized, more determined, more patient and more driven than your regular Aries. IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Oh, and of course they don't go around calling others stupid for not living your dreams. I'm sure you know one or two who did that to you for you to come to that conclusion since I don't see how you could base that even if you were right that no such innovators existed, so I'm guessing personal experience, and now the entire sun sign must be painted with the same brush.
Of course not! I didn't mean that Aries Suns run around telling people they are acting stupid for doubting themselves  ! That was just something I said to emphasize the fact that they can be good motivators. And I haven't had any bad experience with Aries so far, but you're right, I am talking from my own experience because I'm one of them. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6205
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 10:48 AM
Burt Munro:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_MunroAnd the movie... very sweet movie:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Fastest_Indian
 There's also Emmy Noether:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether
"She was described by Pavel Alexandrov, Albert Einstein, Jean Dieudonné, Hermann Weyl, and Norbert Wiener as the most important woman in the history of mathematics" This kind of thing depends on the whole chart though. Are you talking about the energy of the sign itself or people with an Aries sun sign? Also, out of curiosity - do you have Cancer placements?
It might be your synastry with Aries that makes you see them a certain way. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6205
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:02 AM
Oh wait.. I just saw your post about being an Aries yourself.
Hmmm... Do you feel like you're not a "real" pioneer for some reason? I'm also an Aries Sun Sign and the area I am doing my PhD research in, is something that you'll find 0.000001% of women pursuing lmao
But this was purely accidental (as I'm not on a quest to be a pioneer), and it may well be due to my Mercury square Uranus aspect. IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
[
This kind of thing depends on the whole chart though. Are you talking about the energy of the sign itself or people with an Aries sun sign? Also, out of curiosity - do you have Cancer placements?
It might be your synastry with Aries that makes you see them a certain way. [/B]
No, I'm just being as general as possible, concentrating only on the Sun. I wanted to test some things I always read about Aries, to see if they could be backed up by real examples. Somehow I feel that in this case the answer is "no".
I've got two planets in the 4th house, but nothing in Cancer. I think that I see them this way because I'm an Aries, too and I know myself and I know a lot of other Aries Suns and I've noticed they don't posses enough mental stamina "to boldly go where no man has gone before". That's why I wanted to if my hunch was correct or not. I came to the conclusion that a huge "but" should be included when it comes to describing Aries as leaders and pioneers. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6205
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:20 AM
Hmmmm I don't share your experience, but I have to say I am realising more and more that Chinese Astrology likewise plays an important part.
I'm a Tiger and they're the bra-burning feminists of the Chinese zodiac And also, tend to be brainy.I actually know a couple of Aries who I see as having mental stamina, but both are born in my year: '86... so they are also Tigers. quote:
myself and I know a lot of other Aries Suns and I've noticed they don't posses enough mental stamina "to boldly go where no man has gone before".
Were they born around the same year as you?
Many people meet others in HS and Uni/College who are in their age group. Is it possible you guys are all the same Chinese sign?
For instance.. Oxes (85) - the sign before the Tiger - are more practical, hands-on and not so "intellectual". IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Oh wait.. I just saw your post about being an Aries yourself.
Hmmm... Do you feel like you're not a "real" pioneer for some reason? I'm also an Aries Sun Sign and the area I am doing my PhD research in, is something that you'll find 0.000001% of women pursuing lmao
But this was purely accidental (as I'm not on a quest to be a pioneer), and it may well be due to my Mercury square Uranus aspect.
First of all, way to go for doing an "unusual" PhD  What is it in? Now to answer your question. Yeah, I don't feel like a pioneer at all. A motivator - yes, a pioneer and a leader - no way! Moat Aries just talk about all those great things they'd like to do, but they usually don't do them because they get bored or lose interest. The thing is most other signs are much better at taking actions, so they should be called pioneers, not Aries.
It's actaully a matter of questioning some things in astrology which don't seem to be so accurate. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6205
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:32 AM
^^ I was just editing my post when you replied.
What is your Chinese sign? quote:
It's actaully a matter of questioning some things in astrology which don't seem to be so accurate.
But that's pioneering! Haha  quote:
First of all, way to go for doing an "unusual" PhD What is it in?
I'm private on LL, so I can't tell you the exact topic. But broadly speaking (very broadly) it's related to advancements in AI and the potential legal aftermath of certain events (that are fairly unlikely to actually occur, but that still require research lol) IP: Logged |
wheresthemoon
Knowflake Posts: 700
From: Texas
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted October 11, 2015 11:45 AM
I am an Aries sun and I think there is SOME truth to what you say. Cardinal signs are all very good at starting things. They come up with the brilliant ideas and pursue them passionately...at first. It's the follow through that's harder for us. I think of it as the cardinal signs giving birth to great ideas, the mutable signs following suit and helping to give them life, and the fixed signs that bring them to fruition. It's unfair to say that Aries aren't starters. We definitely are. I come up with ideas for business endeavors and grand schemes all the time. I just get bored too quickly and move on to something else, whereas a fixed sign might see that good idea and say "hey...this needs to be a real thing." A good example would be my bosses. They are business partners/owners where I work. He is an Aries and she is a Scorpio. He overheard her talking to someone about problems she was having with property management and he leaned over and said "do you know what it is I do for a living?" (He was a property manager). He was the one who initiated the interaction and I'm fairly certain the one who came up with the idea for the business. They talked all night after that and the business was born. He has so much enthusiasm for what he does, but when you watch them at work, you can see that she sometimes takes more tangible steps towards growing the business, whereas he is still coming up with all kinds of grand ideas for it. Also you can clearly see he gets more work done when she's around. She keeps him in check. When she's gone it's playtime lol. They are really a great team for this reason. They balance each other out. IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
^^ I was just editing my post when you replied.
What is your Chinese sign? But that's pioneering! Haha
I'm a Horse, and, you're right when it some to people born the same year as I, they are all quite lost. But, I'm talking about our fellow Aries in general because I've noticed that most Aries act like that. Yeah, right We'll discuss it now to pass the time, and then we'll forget all about it. On the other hand, some Aquarius might take the same subject, do a more thorough research , write a book about it and actually become a pioneer  IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted October 11, 2015 12:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
I am an Aries sun and I think there is SOME truth to what you say. Cardinal signs are all very good at starting things. They come up with the brilliant ideas and pursue them passionately...at first. It's the follow through that's harder for us. I think of it as the cardinal signs giving birth to great ideas, the mutable signs following suit and helping to give them life, and the fixed signs that bring them to fruition.
I partly agree, but I'd like to add that Cancers and Capricorns actaully get things done. Aries and Libras on the other hand...
quote:
It's unfair to say that Aries aren't starters. We definitely are. I come up with ideas for business endeavors and grand schemes all the time. I just get bored too quickly and move on to something else, whereas a fixed sign might see that good idea and say "hey...this needs to be a real thing." [B]
My point exactly! An Aries will talk about doing something, and then somebody else will come and actually do it. quote:
A good example would be my bosses.
I love the story about your bosses! Love it! It's a good thing they both can work well with each other. I can only imagine how powerful Aries would be if we could just follow things through! IP: Logged | |
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