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Author
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Topic: Cunning/Manipulative Tactics in a natal chart?
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Mars/Pluto Emperor
unregistered
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posted November 12, 2015 09:20 PM
 
What can probably cause this in a natal chart? Someone Using it for selfish purposes,moving the chess pieces like a game and try to win it?I thought of mercury in Aquarius,but they don't seem manipulative. Mercury/Neptune can most certainly be persuasive Mars/pluto can give the drive and initiative to do so IP: Logged |
Empty Spaces
Knowflake Posts: 1363
From:
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 12, 2015 10:40 PM
I heard gemini moon people can do that.Which i dont agree of course cuz im one of them hehe.
Actually I dont really know what they say that BUT im not surprised.This moon has such a bad rap.
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athenegoddess
unregistered
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posted November 12, 2015 10:43 PM
People with a Bad Pluto.IP: Logged |
Mergoatsun
Knowflake Posts: 933
From: USA Today
Registered: Aug 2015
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posted November 12, 2015 10:51 PM
Possibly people with Pluto in their 12th house, they may unintentionally manipulate people. I would say strong/unfavorable Pluto aspects to mercury as well, like I would definitely think Mercury square Pluto (though they commonly think other people are trying to manipulate them) or Mercury opposite Pluto. I would also say some 12th house aspects as well as certain Pisces aspects, when some Pisces aspects are in place they become very good at playing the victim.------------------
Cap Sun
Leo Moon
Aqua Merc
Aqua Venus
Cap Mars
Leo MC
Libra Rising
~~~Blessed Be~~~~ IP: Logged |
hearttreasure
Knowflake Posts: 537
From:
Registered: Jan 2015
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posted November 13, 2015 12:42 AM
I think, for men, look at if mars aspects the pluto and for women, look at if venus aspects the pluto.Lots of aspect to the pluto may make someone easily, like a water, uses cunning/manipulative tactics un/consciously. Hard ascpects most of the time use the tactics. I myself have mercury in aquarius square pluto but I never use manipulation to get what I want, I think logically and can really smell in miles away if someone tries to manipulate me or everything around me. I don't do manipulation to protect myself from them either, probably because I have aries moon and sag mars who really appreciate honesty, true intentions, straightforwardness. I found Libra mars can be a cunning with or without they realize it. Scorpio placement is a natural manipulators. Mercury/Venus/Mars conjunct pluto in scorpio especially. But, yeah, I remember there are some people who have aquarius mercury with capricorn/pisces sun who can be manipulative in some ways. Capricorn is usually because of their ambitions and pisces is usually because they try to make people feel bad or playing victim card, but once again you need to see if their mars or venus is aspecting the pluto. EDIT: Oh, I forgot the moon  is making hard aspect to the pluto. IP: Logged |
Odette
Knowflake Posts: 6755
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted November 13, 2015 04:13 AM
Mercury or Mars in Scorpio.But not for selfish purposes. Actually - I don't know of anyone who is a good manipulator and using his/her skills for selfish purposes. Either they suffer from a mental illness, in which case it's very difficult to call them "selfish".
Or, alternatively they have a strong desire to achieve something that they believe to be of great importance. The most selfish sign is Aries (this is the "negative" side of Aries)... and I have met several men with Aries placements who are fascinated by the idea of manipulating or being cunning - but they are generally not very good at it at all. So selfishness - and skills in this area - don't seem to go hand in hand.. and maybe that's for a good reason lol IP: Logged |
bansheequeen
unregistered
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posted November 13, 2015 05:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Mercury or Mars in Scorpio.But not for selfish purposes. Actually - I don't know of anyone who is a good manipulator and using his/her skills for selfish purposes. Either they suffer from a mental illness, in which case it's very difficult to call them "selfish".
Or, alternatively they have a strong desire to achieve something that they believe to be of great importance. The most selfish sign is Aries (this is the "negative" side of Aries)... and I have met several men with Aries placements who are fascinated by the idea of manipulating or being cunning - but they are generally not very good at it at all. So selfishness - and skills in this area - don't seem to go hand in hand.. and maybe that's for a good reason lol
I think scorpio can be very selfish if that they really really believe in something wholeheartedly and will do anything to get it/support it/be a champion for it. Like the zealotry of aqua but100 times more driven. It might not be selfish if they are doing it for a cause they believe in or to help their loved ones but it can be seen as selfish is for instance its to get someone they are interested in at all costs.. BUT on that note, then nobody can REALLY be called selfish because doesnt everyone just do things because they strongly believe in it or believe they are right in what they are doing? IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 13, 2015 06:43 AM
I think many people, most people, don't realize when they are being manipulative.
I know what you're asking about but it's tricky.
Cancer could for emotional reasons.
I know a sag/Leo who does in order to put themselves in the spotlight.
Gemini moon because how they felt 2 minutes ago isn't how they feel now. LOL
Pisces for emotional stability
Virgo for perfection (I had Lance Armstrong in mind - if you know his story in detail. Extremely manipulative) Etc etc. Manipulation is likely to be possible wherever they feel motivation. So you need to consider that. As for someone who is manipulative most of the time and for manipulation's sake, I don't know. I'm sure that we're all guilty once in a while. IP: Logged |
Comatoes
Knowflake Posts: 441
From:
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted November 13, 2015 07:37 AM
Synastry...You can't be manipulative or be the manipulator unless you have someone or a group receptive to it, which is synastry based. Which explains why some people can get manipulated by someone out of the blue, when they would never fall for such tactics. How a person looks to others, energy, perceptions and what they're attracted to also plays a part. People you are attracted to will be more easier to manipulate you than someone else. There can be all kind of scenarios, there is no one all configuration that will explain it. I'm hesitate to say it's just Pluto or Neptune. These planets can be manipulative. But I wouldn't rule out planets closer to home or the Ascendant. Manipulation comes in all forms through relationships, knowledge, religion/spiritual, physical, finances, possessions, psychological, violence, sexual etc. it runs the gamut, all energy and vibrations are at work based on what is being manipulated. Never rule out any planet, sign, house or aspect. You don't need hard aspects to be manipulative. Easy aspects work just fine and even better. The easier the energy flows the more it becomes subconscious and works like a hidden power. Most selfish acts are seen by the Sun, Moon, Venus, Saturn. These planets show what satisfies, secures and protects. IP: Logged |
maggie
Newflake Posts: 24
From:
Registered: Aug 2015
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posted November 13, 2015 11:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mars/Pluto Emperor:
What can probably cause this in a natal chart? Someone Using it for selfish purposes,moving the chess pieces like a game and try to win it?I thought of mercury in Aquarius,but they don't seem manipulative. Mercury/Neptune can most certainly be persuasive Mars/pluto can give the drive and initiative to do so
I've mercury in Aquarius and I'm not at all manipulative. But I do like to find out about the person if I'm interested, think of it as research, strictly for understanding purposes lol. Used to have a best friend with Moon in Scorpio, she's kinda manipulative. IP: Logged |
LaceyLeigh
Knowflake Posts: 959
From:
Registered: Jul 2014
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posted November 13, 2015 11:50 AM
Afflicted Libra/Pisces placements.IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 13, 2015 12:22 PM
How did you arrive at just afflicted Libra/Pisces?
I'm just asking. It seems very specific and yet unusual. IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 02:55 PM
Ok well I'll assume you've chosen to ignore me then. 
(Given your butthurt in the last conversation that we had) IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 8752
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted November 14, 2015 06:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
The most selfish sign is Aries (this is the "negative" side of Aries)... and I have met several men with Aries placements who are fascinated by the idea of manipulating or being cunning - but they are generally not very good at it at all. So selfishness - and skills in this area - don't seem to go hand in hand.. and maybe that's for a good reason lol
Reminds me of The Prince co-worker:
http://youtu.be/el6jswzrhBQ?t=1m44s  IP: Logged |
deepseastar
Knowflake Posts: 150
From:
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 07:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Possibly people with Pluto in their 12th house, they may unintentionally manipulate people. I would say strong/unfavorable Pluto aspects to mercury as well, like I would definitely think Mercury square Pluto (though they commonly think other people are trying to manipulate them) or Mercury opposite Pluto. I would also say some 12th house aspects as well as certain Pisces aspects, when some Pisces aspects are in place they become very good at playing the victim.
Speaking as someone with 12th house Pluto opposite Mercury, I'm not sure if your assessment is totally accurate. I think people like me are more likely to fear manipulation (whether justified or not), and know how to spot and avoid it, than they are to perpetrate it themselves. IP: Logged |
Mergoatsun
Knowflake Posts: 933
From: USA Today
Registered: Aug 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 08:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by deepseastar:
Speaking as someone with 12th house Pluto opposite Mercury, I'm not sure if your assessment is totally accurate. I think people like me are more likely to [b]fear manipulation (whether justified or not), and know how to spot and avoid it, than they are to perpetrate it themselves. [/B]
In my experience Pluto in the 12th house people aren't mainly afraid of manipulation (it is there though) they more fear their own primal and intense energy. You're right when you say they have great instincts though and can sniff out when someone is trying to trick them. However, because they do possess such an amazing energy they do run the risk of unintentionally manipulating someone. However, you're right it's not predominantly in people with 12th house Pluto, thank you for pointing that out. I would say that Neptune is more guilty of unintentionally manipulating people though IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 08:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
I would say that Neptune is more guilty of unintentionally manipulating people though
I agree with that completely! IP: Logged |
Geminiyoungster
Knowflake Posts: 546
From:
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted November 14, 2015 08:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Reminds me of The Prince co-worker:
http://youtu.be/el6jswzrhBQ?t=1m44s
Mars in Aries is a very cocky and can manipulate people.. IP: Logged |
deepseastar
Knowflake Posts: 150
From:
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted November 15, 2015 02:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
You're right when you say they have great instincts though and can sniff out when someone is trying to trick them.
I've learned over the years that I have a "sixth sense" of sorts. The first time I meet someone, I can sense whether they're hiding bad intentions - it's particularly accurate when identifying narcissists and manipulative people. Most people don't trip my radar but whenever it does, it's very obvious. Every single person I've encountered like this has turned out to be a very dishonest, manipulative, or even violent person. IP: Logged |
Ann7
Knowflake Posts: 879
From: united states
Registered: May 2009
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posted November 15, 2015 06:03 AM
I have mars tightly conjunct pluto in the 10th, I am extremely driven and can most definitely use strategic manipulation in business - however, I also have jupiter in that mix so I will not step on anyone to get what I want (unless they step on me first), instead I sit back, watch and wait to move in when the timing is right. I have a friend with an intense 12th house stellium, pluto being a part of it. She is one of the smartest, most driven and successful business women I've met. IP: Logged |
yota13
Knowflake Posts: 91
From:
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted November 15, 2015 11:12 AM
editIP: Logged |
Lindaland
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