posted November 18, 2015 01:12 PM            

I think what they have in common is that they're both planets of karma and tough lessons but they also have a potential for fostering inner growth. I don't think the other planets do it so perfectly. They have different functions.

They're also both symbols of power, except that Saturn plays by the book and inside the system (Saturn = structures) while a "bad" Pluto will grab for it any time it can, by much less overt means.

posted November 18, 2015 04:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Soltze:
Let me give you an example if Saturn is well dignified or in good aspect he represents comittment and sense of duty. If ill dignified and in tense aspect he is restriction, fear, oppression.

I think what they have in common is that they're both planets of karma and tough lessons but they also have a potential for fostering inner growth. I don't think the other planets do it so perfectly. They have different functions.

They're also both symbols of power, except that Saturn plays by the book and inside the system (Saturn = structures) while a "bad" Pluto will grab for it any time it can, by much less overt means.

Even the mythology reflects it since Saturn is like a stern father figure while Pluto doesn't have such a cape of respectbility being the king of the underworld and the kidnapper of Persephone...

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Thank you soltize!

posted November 18, 2015 07:19 PM            

And the most life changing was I helped someone in need and that opened a new door for me so that I didn't end up homeless when the landlord sold my place out from under me (though in part because I'd done enough to fix the place up that the landlord could, I'd find out then that the place he rented out was actually dangerous and in need of condemnation and he only rented it so cheap as he couldn't sell it, but once I'd changed it--on the surface, another inspector said no bank would authorize a loan for it and last time I checked, years after eviction, it still hadn't sold--then he decided to sell and had me evicted when I refused to let the lies of the people selling the house stand), I was actually able to move somewhere better. This was its own gauntlet that tested us all (and to make it worse, Pluto would square my Saturn return from Cap) but we came out stronger and now I'm living in the nicest home I've ever had in my life.

That's Saturn, the old time professor with the attitude of Professor Snape who is quick with the cane for the slightest fault, without tolerance for laziness or sloppiness or breaking the rules, but if you pass the tests he throws your way, it's a major accomplishment that can open a lot of doors for you (otherwise, you can be tossed out on the streets without any mercy).

Pluto, OTOH...I'm reminded of this saying from the movie Sucker Punch (which I haven't seen, btw, in case I'm missing some context):

"And finally this question, the mystery of who's story it will be. Of who draws the curtain. Who is it that chooses our steps in the dance? Who drives us mad? Lashes us with whips and crowns us with victory when we survive the impossible? Who is it, that does all of these things? Who honors those we love for the very life we live? Who sends monsters to kill us, and at the same time sings that we will never die? Who teaches us what's real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend? Who chains us? And Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You. You have all the weapons you need. Now Fight!"

I used to say this about Saturn, but on further reflection, I believe it's more accurate of Pluto.

My Pluto transited my 5H Sag stellium (which in turn was sextile to my 3H stellium that included my natal Pluto--I'm not sure what effect my natal Pluto may have had on my transiting Pluto, and vice versa) during my teens, and was frankly one disaster after another. Even the good that happened was just something else for me to lose to make my lot even more miserable. And I'm not talking the usual teenage angst, I'm talking abuse in a mental ward that the United Nations says is torture, violence, starvation, facing off against predators, life on the streets (and found the police as much of an enemy as the criminals--heck, one cop became obsessed with tracking me down for his own perversions rather than to do his job), the brutal death of my best friend that could've just as easily been me, and more. Perhaps one saving grace is that I did not then realize just how insane my life was (in part because I was surrounded by others who were also experiencing life that way) until after all that craziness was over.

And yet I (usually) didn't feel broken. Transiting Pluto was activated my natal moon-Mars-Uranus-Neptune (other transits of the time also shaped the experience) so that I had an incredible experience with shrooms that made me realize that school was too slow for me, among other things, and then a vision of the goddess Freya that changed my life by essentially telling me (in a manner of speaking) the part I just quoted from Sucker Punch. Hitchhiking from Texas to California in that time was one of the most awesome experiences in my life (and surprisingly free of abuse and traumatic experiences, at least on the journey itself). When one man threatened (to others, but so I could overhear) to kill me, I got an AR-15 and cleaned it while turning up a Marilyn Manson song (the Beautiful People, which that man made me think of) to make sure he turned to see me cleaning it to leave a message that he wasn't the only one capable of killing.

Perhaps the most dramatic was when 3 skinheads (each a male bigger than me) tried to intimidate me and they got a taste of my natal Mars-Uranus (sextile natal Pluto) being transited by Pluto (and almost right after Freya had come to me in a vision), along with my boots and spiked rings (eyewitnesses say it made them think of a cat taking on bigger dogs who ran off yipping, and another said I was leaping at them like a rooster, they'd knock me back, and I'd leap right back at them swinging and kicking--can't forget the chair I knocked one down with--which ended with me spitting blood while pulling my butterfly knives as they ran from me, utterly shocked at how that turned out for them).

In short, Pluto made my life extreme, sometimes extremely hellish, but at the same time I felt Pluto tapping my own power (having so many natal planets--heck, nearly my entire natal chart--to work with on both counts) so that while Pluto burned me to ashes, it also gave the power to rise from those ashes like a Phoenix stronger than I had before I'd been burned, the old "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Or in the lyrics of Fall Out Boy in The Phoenix:

posted November 19, 2015 08:10 AM            

What has worked for me is that in troubled times I have literally just succumbed to the misery; dropped everything, and let it work its magic into a position where I needed to be.

posted November 19, 2015 11:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I've reflected on this over the years, and now I've decided that Saturn is the strict teacher or judge, and I visualize him (at least for me) as like Professor Snape. Obnoxious as hell, but will pass you if you earn it (despite some unfair curve balls he might throw your way). Me and a SO had ours at about the same time and both our lives fell apart. And yet I bounced back fast because I'd built up a good reputation and network while my SO (who was irresponsible and gave attitude to many people she shouldn't have) floundered. Perhaps the most significant is that she lost her BFF who then "officially" became mine, because she ordered her to choose sides while I told her I didn't expect her to given how they'd grown up together, and so when forced to choose, she chose mine.

And the most life changing was I helped someone in need and that opened a new door for me so that I didn't end up homeless when the landlord sold my place out from under me (though in part because I'd done enough to fix the place up that the landlord could, I'd find out then that the place he rented out was actually dangerous and in need of condemnation and he only rented it so cheap as he couldn't sell it, but once I'd changed it--on the surface, another inspector said no bank would authorize a loan for it and last time I checked, years after eviction, it still hadn't sold--then he decided to sell and had me evicted when I refused to let the lies of the people selling the house stand), I was actually able to move somewhere better. This was its own gauntlet that tested us all (and to make it worse, Pluto would square my Saturn return from Cap) but we came out stronger and now I'm living in the nicest home I've ever had in my life.

That's Saturn, the old time professor with the attitude of Professor Snape who is quick with the cane for the slightest fault, without tolerance for laziness or sloppiness or breaking the rules, but if you pass the tests he throws your way, it's a major accomplishment that can open a lot of doors for you (otherwise, you can be tossed out on the streets without any mercy).

Pluto, OTOH...I'm reminded of this saying from the movie Sucker Punch (which I haven't seen, btw, in case I'm missing some context):

"And finally this question, the mystery of who's story it will be. Of who draws the curtain. Who is it that chooses our steps in the dance? Who drives us mad? Lashes us with whips and crowns us with victory when we survive the impossible? Who is it, that does all of these things? Who honors those we love for the very life we live? Who sends monsters to kill us, and at the same time sings that we will never die? Who teaches us what's real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend? Who chains us? And Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You. You have all the weapons you need. Now Fight!"

I used to say this about Saturn, but on further reflection, I believe it's more accurate of Pluto.

My Pluto transited my 5H Sag stellium (which in turn was sextile to my 3H stellium that included my natal Pluto--I'm not sure what effect my natal Pluto may have had on my transiting Pluto, and vice versa) during my teens, and was frankly one disaster after another. Even the good that happened was just something else for me to lose to make my lot even more miserable. And I'm not talking the usual teenage angst, I'm talking abuse in a mental ward that the United Nations says is torture, violence, starvation, facing off against predators, life on the streets (and found the police as much of an enemy as the criminals--heck, one cop became obsessed with tracking me down for his own perversions rather than to do his job), the brutal death of my best friend that could've just as easily been me, and more. Perhaps one saving grace is that I did not then realize just how insane my life was (in part because I was surrounded by others who were also experiencing life that way) until after all that craziness was over.

And yet I (usually) didn't feel broken. Transiting Pluto was activated my natal moon-Mars-Uranus-Neptune (other transits of the time also shaped the experience) so that I had an incredible experience with shrooms that made me realize that school was too slow for me, among other things, and then a vision of the goddess Freya that changed my life by essentially telling me (in a manner of speaking) the part I just quoted from Sucker Punch. Hitchhiking from Texas to California in that time was one of the most awesome experiences in my life (and surprisingly free of abuse and traumatic experiences, at least on the journey itself). When one man threatened (to others, but so I could overhear) to kill me, I got an AR-15 and cleaned it while turning up a Marilyn Manson song (the Beautiful People, which that man made me think of) to make sure he turned to see me cleaning it to leave a message that he wasn't the only one capable of killing.

Perhaps the most dramatic was when 3 skinheads (each a male bigger than me) tried to intimidate me and they got a taste of my natal Mars-Uranus (sextile natal Pluto) being transited by Pluto (and almost right after Freya had come to me in a vision), along with my boots and spiked rings (eyewitnesses say it made them think of a cat taking on bigger dogs who ran off yipping, and another said I was leaping at them like a rooster, they'd knock me back, and I'd leap right back at them swinging and kicking--can't forget the chair I knocked one down with--which ended with me spitting blood while pulling my butterfly knives as they ran from me, utterly shocked at how that turned out for them).

In short, Pluto made my life extreme, sometimes extremely hellish, but at the same time I felt Pluto tapping my own power (having so many natal planets--heck, nearly my entire natal chart--to work with on both counts) so that while Pluto burned me to ashes, it also gave the power to rise from those ashes like a Phoenix stronger than I had before I'd been burned, the old "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Or in the lyrics of Fall Out Boy in The Phoenix:

Hey, Youngblood doesn稚 it feel like our time is running out
I知 going to change you like a remix
Then I値l raise you like a phoenix
Wearing our vintage misery
No I think it looked a little better on me
I知 going to change you like a remix
Then I値l raise you like a phoenix

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Thank You PixieJane i appreciate for you giving a well defined explanation of opinion on this thank you