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Author Topic:   Which sign is the most hedonistic?
goatcat
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posted April 12, 2016 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goatcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Watch these thoughts on hedonism if you like: http://youtu.be/0xdFJwuM8HE

I would say Scorpio because we are quite desirous. Our desires are often not even physical and oh so insatiable!

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goatcat
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posted April 12, 2016 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goatcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The desires of the scorpion are that of a bottomless pit...

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diamondbaby
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posted April 12, 2016 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for diamondbaby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion Taurus.

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Violets
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posted April 12, 2016 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep. Scorpio/Taurus. Both, in slightly different ways. Not that different, though.

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PixieJane
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posted April 12, 2016 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hedonistic philosophy (that he talks about at the YT link) is actually more about the well-being of people (which can include spiritual as well as physical), of having life easy, than a constant pursuit of pleasure, and various schools of thought argue just how important it is compared to other concepts (as justice), and also quality vs. quantity (IOW, seeking the balance the guy says is missing from hedonism, though the point of that balance is to maximize long term happiness which makes it hedonistic). Pleasure can be as something as simple as reading a good book, flying a kite on a beautiful day, or a hot bath, and doesn't necessarily require popping pills of ecstasy or lots of sex or eating cheesecake everyday.

Classical or philosophical hedonism can also value long term pleasure over short term to get the most pleasure out of life, which does mean restraint (both to avoid painful consequences, and also so as to not become jaded, which destroys pleasure and replaces it with entitlement--and thus the pleasure paradox--and even addiction)...and sometimes even a little pain (as long as it's worth the pleasure).

Btw, I am a philosophical hedonist. But many people who know me would be surprised to learn that. It appears he's read of it as well in the philosophical sense which surprises me. Perhaps my 3H Libra stellium automatically sought balance in it and focused on that aspect of hedonism than his own mind does...and meanwhile, my 5H Sag stellium can be both about ethics and pleasure.

That aside, I don't see how the Scorpio could be the most hedonistic, save in some selfish way that denies others pleasure if it interferes with one's own (but perhaps a Scorpio hedonist could find pleasure in the pain of others...the question of pleasure being who has the power, and who wins, who is in heaven and who gets to cast others into hell). They're supposed to be too emotionally sucked in to really have that much fun in the classical hedonistic way, and some say Scorpios love pain (or at least draw it by being themselves, perhaps as a necessary component to transform) which is the opposite of hedonism (though ill-advised hedonism could bring them to that point). Of all the Scorpios I've known, I've only known one to fit the description hedonist (in the popular rather than classical or philosophical sense, and as described in the YT vid, and only able to see the short term, but then she was just a kid), and I suspect that she was trying to escape some realization about herself, and certainly acting in part out of pain. And another Scorpio I can think of might've been in a more subtle way (more like I am myself now).

I've always been curious about Billy Graham. Linda Goodman wrote something about how Scorpio could come to fear its own sexual nature and become prudish as a result, and BG is one of the few televangelists who doesn't seem to be either a scam artist or who was controlled by some shadow/subconscious sex side.

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goatcat
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posted April 12, 2016 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goatcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great Read PixieJane!

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goatcat
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posted April 12, 2016 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goatcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that I think about it, Libra might be the most hedonistic because they're Venusian and generally despise unhappiness! Cuz you're right about Scorpio. We do have this strange strange pleasure/pain complex.

Watching the video above though has helped me realize that my constant search for pleasure is due to my disdain and denial of the pain I often feel.

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yungang_grotto
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posted April 12, 2016 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Taurus is into pleasure in a funny no nonsense serious practical way... but they are amazing for enjoying themselves. Best food I've ever been hand fed was from a Taurus hand. They know how to make things extra juicy just by looking at them!

Cancer can actually be really indulgent... Aries and Sag are notorious pleasure seekers but must slow down enough to enjoy it... it would be like some kind of blend of Taurus/Cancer/Leo/Sag... Scorpio isn't hedonistic enough in my pinion! Speaking as an uber Scorpio... then again my Moon in Capricorn just sabotages me hard. "Pleasure? What's the point?"

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PixieJane
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posted April 12, 2016 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad you liked it.

I thought I'd add the moment that I chose to declare myself a hedonist (though I think I was inclined that way to begin with, but not with effort).

I was somewhere between 19-21, I think (I MAY have been 22, but it doesn't "feel" that way given I passed a major life event with some significant changes just before I turned 22), and I was burdened with "shoulds." As in "I should," "People should," and "Life should." And then I had a terrifying nightmare, one that ended with me completely surrendering to death and finding it so relaxing, even exhilarating. I was so baffled by that reaction that I meditated on it and realized how the "shoulds" were ruining the quality of my life.

So I did an experiment in which I dropped all my "shoulds" and responsibilities for that day and instead spent a beautiful day at the beach...and it was one of the best of my life, as simple as the pleasures were. I did realize that I couldn't live everyday like that (at least not without becoming homeless and enduring many problems that detracted from the pleasure of that day) but I rearranged my priorities to become a hedonist (in the classical sense, which I'd already read of).

The lesson was reinforced after a morning of windsurfing, which I recorded in my journal on Dec 18, 2005:

quote:
I had gotten off the comp this morn when a friend that I had just emailed a few minutes before called (since she knew I was up). She wanted us to go surfing with them. Having just gotten over a flu, I was thinking of saying no, but my roomie really wanted to go, so I agreed.

I am so glad for that.

We surfed as normal and the lingering depression and such from fighting off the flu was banished and I really enjoyed myself and the company. The morn was cloudy, but it was still beautiful, with fog in the distant hills, and the ocean itself vanishing off into the distant mists. There was rain, but it was very light--I'm not even sure it counts as rain. And hardly matters when you're in a wetsuit anyway.

And then the wind picked up. Friends had a wonderful idea, to try windsurfing. This was interesting, and I wasn't sure about it, having never done it before. When I finally tried, it took me some minutes just to not fall over, though they said I picked it up really fast. It was difficult because I had to hold my feet differently, and dealing with the harness. But at some point, WHOOSH, the SPEED! I couldn't help it: I screamed with joy, and I was SO glad we had come.

And then the sun broke through.... not direct, but close. The water turned from gray to aqua, and I was suddenly recalling when I was like 6-10, how I'd get up before Mom & Dad (and often before dawn back then) and go outside and explore, play, go to friend's houses.... I felt so free and there was a stark beauty to life that I rarely feel (at least sober) since I guess I became a teen. And then I surpassed even that, and I reached a state that was nothing less than ecstasy, I'd say on par (though distinct and different in its own way) to mind altering dancing or sex, and perhaps even more fulfilling in its own way.

If there was any doubt about fighting to survive the dark times in my life, it was dispelled at this moment of utter beauty in which I lived totally within this miraculous moment, my shout and my heart praising the Goddess of Life and for this moment in Life, one that was worth every horror and ache I had endured just to be here. Tears came down my face (just a few), and I knew that when I die, should my life flash before my eyes, this exact moment will be replayed, and if it affects my body at all, I will smile then, at peace, knowing it was all worth it in part to this one ineffable moment.

What else is there to say? My cold seemed to come back but it went away again, and it was hardly even noted (at least not by me--and we were all wet enough anyway). I found out that the wind was LIGHT (like how fast would I have gone in a HIGH wind???) Because we messed with the boards (including the beginner board I had borrowed), we failed to miss the churches getting out and ended up eating at a Pizza Hut for awhile to give the traffic a chance to die down more.

Now I am home. I've showered, dishes are now washing, warms are washing and hots are drying. Today was awesome, and I'm sharing. If you get a chance to try something new like that, and to be out in nature in a way that helps you to fuse with it, if just for a moment, then avail yourself of the moment. If more people did, psychiatry would be an endangered profession.

As the Wiccans say, Blessed Be (it seems appropriate to now).


I've got a couple of other minor points to share.

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PixieJane
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posted April 12, 2016 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I take pleasure in learning. This might be my 3H sun and stellium sextile to 5H Sag stellium.

Once on shrooms, when I had some sort of "spirit guide" (at the time, I called it "the shrooms" but meant it as a sentient person who was teaching me as the shrooms were momentarily fused with my brain), I remembered how close I'd come to rejecting the shrooms out of fear (and that I saw my cousin harvest them from cow patties, not something to appeal to my Libra stellium) but the shrooms told me I could not, I had a passion for learning. As this telepathic-like communion came to me as understanding of what the shrooms were saying, several memories of the pleasure I took in learning surfaced. I then thought, "Why do I hate school?"

The shrooms answered because in school I was forced to sit down and shut up, that it INTERFERED with my learning rather than facilitating it. (A teacher would later agree with that saying my problem in school was that I was bored out of my mind and should've been in a school for the gifted to challenge me more.) A great many memories of that came about and ever since I realized that I loved learning despite hating school, and that schools could interfere with learning as easily as facilitate it.

x

Likewise, my 3H sextile 5H could also explain why I find greater pleasure in sharing. If I find something funny, it will be hilarious if I share it with others, which is one reason I like to see comedies with other people as the enjoyment is greater. What I realized is that pleasures become more when shared while pain is less, and for many years I assumed everyone was this way and thus thought it was proof why humanity was ultimately good and wired for the common weal (I no longer believe this).

x

And as for the "dark side" of pleasure, what the Germans call Schadenfreude (not to be confused with how some psychopaths enjoy the pain the others, though it could be related if they see everyone as the enemy or competition), I got some insight into that as well.

By the time I was 18 I'd gotten into some street fights, and then got formal training from multiple sources (btw, something many who don't come from that background don't know, it's not all about the strength, which I can explain if you want, I beat guys who would've easily won an arm wrestling contest against me). It paid off when a guy, mistaking me for a pothead (probably the Grateful Dead shirt I was wearing at the time) making him think he could rape me with impunity (had I not been able to defend myself, he'd probably be correct). I hit and kicked pressure points enough to make him loosen his grip on me which was when I grabbed an index finger of his and bent it back so that he, this male much larger than me, was on his knees shrieking shrilly and in total surrender.

And I was amazed at the pleasure that electrified my body at that moment, enough that it distracted me so that another (turned out to be his sister) slammed into me.

I've meditated on that feeling for a long while and realized that it was because I learned I didn't have to be afraid. Having undergone terrible violence and abuse by then, I was a bit traumatized (and had PTSD), but this guy, so much bigger than me, was on his knees before me and I didn't even work up a sweat. And I was just starting to tap what I could do in that regard (and as Demi Lovato asks, What's wrong with being confident *, assuming it doesn't lead to arrogant hubris, of course).

(*The YT link I gave is one I liked better than the DL official video, though they're actually similar.)

And so in that I came to learn that a lot of self-righteousness and evil in the world was based on fear, and a need for security (that is, like self-defense it's rooted in the survival instinct, especially where one's ego/self identifies strongly with a group of some sort). I'd pulled back from that moment so that I didn't take it to a dangerous extreme, but the world was enduring a terrible karma because of what they were driven to do to dominate, and take pleasure in the misfortune of others (when if they shared the pleasure and seek reformation over punishment then Hitler would've never come to power, America could enjoy a low crime rate like in Scandinavia, as this shows of Norway, where prisons are more like resorts, and the goal is to rehabilitate rather than punish). Of course some say I'm naive to say this (especially those of Lawful Evil alignment, though they'd just call themselves "pragmatic," just as I call myself), but I think the evidence suggests that punishment should be a last resort.

The famous experiment of the rats who killed themselves through addiction was redone when the rats weren't trapped in a joyless cage and scientists got the opposite result. That is, it wasn't the drug causing the self-destructive addiction, it was the despair. This and other studies was applied to Portuguese social policy as described here (takes about a minute to actually get there, but they found that fostering social connections and happiness did what prisons couldn't).

This applies to many other aspects of society. If we didn't take pleasure in the suffering of others who are different or who we think are evil, then the world (and thus us as individuals) could be happier in the long run...and to me that's a hedonistic view, and not one that fosters orgies and drug parties as the norm (not that I see anything necessarily wrong with orgies and drug parties IMO, mind you, depends on HOW it's gone about).

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