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Author
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Topic: squares/afflictions more attractive on men
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ayujegeg
Knowflake Posts: 268
From:
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted May 23, 2016 09:23 PM
  
deletedIP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 23, 2016 10:10 PM
Blah... no. Disagree. I don't tend to classify people by gender roles and I don't personally think it's better for a female bodied person to have a more feminine personality. Older astrologers thought like this; moon in Capricorn is bad for a woman, etc. But i think if we are considering each person's happiness then we can look to a balance of yin and yang being the ideal for any chart whether of a female or male body. In every chart perhaps the path to balance is encoded. If we are considering what will be attractive based on a stereotypical heteronormative modern day/antique "what's attractive" gendered criterion... sure perhaps you'll look for "brooding" (aka hard and potentially mean?) in a man and "soft" in a woman (ie. passive and doormat-like, yielding and utterly yin). But I don't think those gender roles actually make for happy relationships. Unless they really truly complement one another's charts. Which very rarely happens. Because truthfully we are all a mix of masculine and feminine in our charts and our psyches. This is my opinion. I know some people are more attached to gender roles than others and in this way we're in some ways in parallel dimensions when it comes to how we practise astrology. Also realistically everybody's attraction pattern is so different. Perhaps some people really look for those traits in men/women in whom they're interested but they'll actually be complemented by a blend which challenges their own yin/yang blend in the right ways, as well as filing in gaps etc. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 23, 2016 10:19 PM
I just see people as more complex than this I guess. Sorry for the blah I just have knee jerk reactions against chart typing based on gender because I know the damage it can do. I am interested in helping humanity get happier and more enlightened, not dragging them down into gender roles and saying they have "bad" or unatgractive placements based on the kind of body they have. All that said, personally I admit to being attracted to masculinity when it comes to who I want to have sex with... as I have an Aries Mars.. I also tend to express myself in masculine ways sometimes. But I have Venus in Libra so I'm on my way to balance I guess. If I had a Mars in Pisces it would be a very different story... so I think anyway... And my attraction to more feminine people would likely be greater. As it is I am bisexual but tend to favour men--I see this more as conditioning and pathology more than anything (for myself personally), but it's probably also in my chart somehow. I think squares are necessary for growth. If you want a woman to be really obedient and dependent then yeah look for one with a lot of trines... but expect some issues down the line when she won't even do the dishes or anything... That's tongue in cheek... Sorry I want to respect everybody's individuality and I know you're probably not trying to get into a gender studies debate but this kind of astrology can in fact be harmful to people so we have to kind of watch it. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 23, 2016 10:27 PM
My sister is dating a guy who would be too effeminate for me. I want to be careful to point out that FOR SOME PEOPLE those rules you mentioned will apply, and strangely enough to some extent I am one of them. I seek out the baddest motherf*ckers to date, the most manly, issue ridden people... who actually need to balance out by tapping into their moon/venus (according to isabel hickey, these are the 'antidotes' for hard Mars/Saturn). And in fact the men I date do have a super soft core and beautiful sensitivity underneath all the masculinity... or maybe as part of it. Point is I may fit some stereotypes... but not all. And not everyone will. There's no rule that states what's attractive in a man or woman. My sister's Mars is in Gemini... it's mutable and not exactly picky where gender is concerned, even if it's in a masculine sign. Her Venus is in Aries so she attracts more effeminate men to offset her fiery Venusian nature. So I think, perhaps. It is a complicated subject and I've probably contradicted myself somewhere in here but the point to remember is that what each of us is really seeking is balance. We are usually looking for somebody to fill in our yin/yang gaps in relationship until we have balanced our own yin yang nature. It is then that we can fully enter into loving relationships which are free and not bind by gender roles or looking for somebody else to complete us. A wise friend told me this once and I'm coming to believe it. It's also the way some astrologers see interpersonal astrology.. if you keep seeking out a harsh or strong Saturn contact with another person's Saturn it may mean you aren't doing your own Saturn justice, so you'll feel it from them. Another angle on it. IP: Logged |
ayujegeg
Knowflake Posts: 268
From:
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted May 23, 2016 11:02 PM
deletedIP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 23, 2016 11:29 PM
I think a large portion of society might think that but society's got issues. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 23, 2016 11:40 PM
I think astrology is in many ways about how we are eachunique so I can't help bringing in what each person likes specifically being very different. It is interesting to note though as the planets move and our society evolves things are changing. Old ideas are giving way.. astrologyitself is changing. I'm personally curious if anybody else has noticed whether Venus in a masculine sign in a female chart inclines the native to a more feminine partner, and whether Mars in a feminine sign inclines a male identified person to a more masculine partner. We hear much about Venus in a feminine sign attracting us to a feminine partner but if we identify as female this is less likely to be the case possibly. Or possibly not. I've noticed this pattern though, myself, in a few people. This might work with either gender and either gender planet:always seeking balance. And in the chart of anamdrogynous or gender neutral or Transgender individualit will be different. IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted May 24, 2016 09:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
I think a large portion of society might think that but society's got issues.
Whether or not you disagree with the majority, that is, society, is irrelevant to the validity of the question. If the question can apply to the majority then it's a valid question. It's almost a different argument completely. The question applies to society (what we're calling the majority for the sake of this discussion) and the answer (argument) you gave addresses another issue which is if society is wrong. They're different topics. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 24, 2016 09:58 AM
The question was not specific to society and asked MY opinion so I gave it, eh? IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 24, 2016 10:00 AM
My opinion is that there is no such thing as a generalized societal hive mind and we are all individuals some of whom struggle a great deal with a society which attempts to suppress our individuality and fit us into narrow gender boxes which in fact suit nobody. When I say a large part of society does this I don't say it without the awareness that it is done at everybody's expense. I think sexism and stereotyping exist and they are problematic. My opinion and time taken to consider and write all of that is very much in keeping with the question and is perfectly valid. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 24, 2016 10:04 AM
They're not different topics. It's very much on topic, my opinion about the topic is just different than the OP's. IP: Logged |
Electro DGX
Moderator Posts: 2186
From: Mars
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted May 24, 2016 10:04 AM
I honestly think that this is a weird concept, and I can't necessarily agree with it because of its subjective influence. There could be someone out there who thinks a woman who has a bunch of afflictions in her chart is much more attractive, and I've seen women who have lots of afflictions in their chart who are attractive. Therefore I don't agree. ------------------
Aquarius Sun, Merc, Venus, Uranus, Neptune
Scorpio Mars conj. Asc in First
8th House Moon opposite Pluto, Trine Uranus
Have you caught onto the predicament I'm in yet? IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted May 24, 2016 10:44 AM
It's been asked before but apparently this is a bad time.  IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 4122
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted May 24, 2016 11:01 AM
Ummm.... Dopgang... if you have a different opinion why not share it? I can see how squares and oppositions could be more yang and trines more yin and flowing. I think in essence the question is interesting in that way. The guy I'm with certainly doesn't have a preponderance of "easy" aspects in his chart and as I said I personally am attracted to that... maybe in part because I have a preponderance of trines and sextiles in mine. But I still think this is an uber simplistic way of looking at it. Maybe for that reason it could have some merit though. Simple is good right? Hard aspects=yang soft=yin. Sounds good. Could still be debated according to modality and element, etc. I think the question got dicey when it presumed or inquired whether everybody would share this attraction pattern based on gender expression because that simply isn't the case. And we can see that quite clearly in the charts of thousands and thousands of people. I don't know why you don't just state your opinion rather than tearing down other people's consideration of the topic? It isn't a bad time for any conversation which provokes thoughtful dialogue, it isn't a bad time just because somebody says something with which you disagree. Disagreement is how we learn and grow... it's important to consider other viewpoints and not be too rigid... IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted May 24, 2016 11:27 AM
Well, the idea seems plausible, as Mythbusters would say.  The issue is that I didn't bother to collect data on it so I can't say one way or the other if this fits, astrologically. What I can say is that it seems plausible to me because there does seem to be something to the idea that many women (Heterosexual) seem to gravitate towards "Bad boys". For whatever reason. Whether they believe they offer protection, or they like that edge, or whatever the cause. I have members in my family who fits this to a T. It happens and anyone can see it, whether it's learned and expected behavior. It's been complained about in these forums or presented as a truth. It exists.
Now, I should clarify that I don't really know to what extent any of that really exists. (It would almost need several exhaustive studies) But there's a lot of sayings and such that point to it. There's a lot of cultural things out there that point to that idea that many women may desire that edgy personality. Things like, "Nice guys finish last". That saying came from somewhere over who knows how many years. These are things that are very much alive and well. In the celebrity world as well as private and that we've occasionally seen on this forum.
This doesn't mean that I agree with any of it. It's not representative about how I personally feel about all of that. I personally hate that kind of thing. Why can't it just be that you like someone and that's that? Maybe I fit some labels myself and maybe I don't but to me I'm not really concerned about it. I'm just being myself and if I fit stereotypes, "So what" I say.
I get what you're saying and all that and it's not even that I wholly disagreed with everything said. However, whether we like it or not, whether I personally like it or not, there does seem to be some popular stereotypes that this idea could fit. So I have to agree with it being a possibility for many people.
I didn't want to get into this too deeply because I can say that, ok, how popular is this kind of behavior, where does it come from (Is it learned or genetic) and etc etc. I really don't feel like going down that road. This could just spiral off into an abyss of philosophy and debate, it's crazy.
If we start introducing our personal feelings then this topic is going to get nuts. We all favor constructive conversation on these topics, I get that. Most times it does seem to be a nearly impossible thing to accomplish on a forum. I'm far too lazy to bother with that because let's face it. No matter what any of us has to say we're not going to set the world on fire. So this is how I look at it: Does this behavior exist? Yes (personal feelings aside) Does it include more than just a few? Yes, quite a lot. (Personal feelings aside and "why" not asked) So could this astrological idea hold truth? Possibly (personal feelings aside)
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