posted August 08, 2016 08:44 PM            

Ive got entangled in a lot of reading about this and come out none the wiser.

posted August 08, 2016 09:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by etherealsaturn:
Asteroid 1181 is the only verifiable physical body, Dark Moon h58 (Waldemath), maybe. I usually look at all of three and connect them together.

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So is h58 BML? All these Liliths can really confuse anyone.

posted August 10, 2016 01:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sikanda:
Sorry, but what is H13? As in house 13??

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Okay I see, as I now tried. I see what you mean. If I chose Lilith (the 'standard' way), I have it in Gemini 2H. But if I add 1181, I have a Lilith in Pisces 11H as well. I guess both can influence, or is it only one?

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Well, look what I found in this very forum. Giving Peri credit where its due, since it is him/her who said this (thanks for the information):

"h13 is true BML

There are 2 Black Moon Liliths: one is mean BML (Lilith on additional objects list in astro.com) the other is true BML (h13 Osculating Lunar Apogee on the list of "hypothetical" planets )

asteroid Lilith (#1181on the list of named asteroids)

and Dark Moon Lilith (h58 Waldemath Black Moon on the list of "hypothetical" planets)In my opinion, BML represents the subconscious part of our mind or the Unknown, its a hightly individual point in the chart , it is something that makes us different from others. BML also represents our anima/animus figure which is very interesting when it comes to synastry charts comparison. A relationship under the influence of BML may grow into a dangerous liaison, into a painful, intense, obsessive or strange love affair.

Which of them to use true or mean? The true is the more accurate placement but an ephemeris for it has only been available for about 10 years so not as much work has been done using it.
From my personal experience, I can say mean BML does work and manifests itself in transits and synastry quite noticeably! As for true BML I haven't worked with it yet.

Asteroid Lilith indicates where a person does not fit the cultural stereotype, leading to some kind of exile from the community, where we struggle with social judgments. In synastry, it can provoke confrontations with gender role stereotypes or a non-submissive disposition with regard to gender roles, personal independence and the use of sex as a weapon of vengeance or domination or maybe even lack of sexual commitment.

posted August 10, 2016 09:20 PM            

True Lilith - H13 - aka Black moon Lilith : is a lunar apogee (point).
The Mother (Creativity & Sexuality), Eris/Neptune like
Key words: magic, animal magnetism, kundalini, creative force, seduction, tantric sex, intuition, psychic ability, imagination, poetry, hypnotism, charisma, glamour
Shamanic qualities (breaks down barriers to unconscious), can let demons in as well as messages from spirits
Most used by astrologers, as it best expresses the myth.
9 years cycle, 9 mths in ea sign

Waldemath Moon - H58 - aka Dark Moon Lilith : not the apogee or the asteroid, but a dust cloud.
Nasty side of Lilith (the Shadow), Algol like.
Key words: the shadow, demons, rage, toxins, emotional pain, catharsis, madness, SM, perhaps child abuse, vengeance, ghosts, nymphomania
if emotions (our demons) not released, it can enrage them causing being physically 'raped' by them (overwhelmed)
119 days cycle, 10 day in ea sign

Asteroid Lilith - 1181
The Maiden (Puberty & Virginity), Eris/Uranus like.
Key words: rebellion, exile, confrontational, asexual, impulsive, innovative, unconventional, freedom fighter, hands on healing.
4 years orbit