posted September 02, 2016 11:39 AM            

About the cutting words for Libra Mars, I can relate. I've noticed that in most people with air sign Mars actually. I also have Scorpio Mercury and my Mars is conjunct Moon exact (but square Neptune) - so not quite sure who's to blame here.

On the other hand, I feel one must consider the aspects these placements make with other planets in your chart and the houses. Sure, Libra Mars is in detriment - but conjunct Moon gives it more punch, square Neptune gives it some dreamy tenderness (although a bit vague), 5th house gives it some presence. Not sure if the end result is better or worse though, haha.

posted September 03, 2016 02:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I suspect that the point of planets in detriment makes sense in traditional astrology. As per psychological astrology, I would say that rather than "detriment" "fall" "exaltation" etc, I would say that these concepts refer more to how close the sign is aligned with the archetype. but even a planet in its dignity has drawbacks. for instance, mercury in gemini is at home. however, would we say that mercury in gemini without any supporting aspect will be the best placement? for instance without any saturn aspect (for focus) uranus (for creativity) venus-neptune (for poetry-beauty expression)to jupiter (to see the big picture) pluto (for in-depth searching)

however, if mercury in gemini is without any aspect that change change somehow the expression of the energy, it will most likely mimetize the archetype of hermes, the trickster, etc. but if we think in terms of what we consider better way of communication, processing of information and learning, mercury in gemini is very quick but scattered.is that what you want when pursuing a degree in academic research? maybe is not enough.

same with venus in libra (the idea of beauty, balance, harmony) however, it may lack the understanding of relationship with a strong jelousy component and be vain, something scorpio venus will not tolerate. venus in taurus, instead can be too stable and "boring" for some people, but it can enjoy the pleasure of what life offers without trying to asking life for the impossible. what i see these signs are reflection of the archetype, but not necessarily "better" than the other signs.

---

Yes, this approach is essential because it is really the archetype expression of the sign that we "recognize".

And you are right. I know someone wth Gemini Mercury and i dont think him bright, intellectual or witty. So that placement alone cannot just be the "mana" to polish up everything.

posted September 03, 2016 02:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Yea, not sure if I can tell if they assist each other either (I have Libra Mars/Scorpio Venus as well). I just tell myself it does to make myself feel better about it, haha. Hell, even my sun in Libra is considered in its Fall...

About the cutting words for Libra Mars, I can relate. I've noticed that in most people with air sign Mars actually. I also have Scorpio Mercury and my Mars is conjunct Moon exact (but square Neptune) - so not quite sure who's to blame here.

On the other hand, I feel one must consider the aspects these placements make with other planets in your chart and the houses. Sure, Libra Mars is in detriment - but conjunct Moon gives it more punch, square Neptune gives it some dreamy tenderness (although a bit vague), 5th house gives it some presence. Not sure if the end result is better or worse though, haha.

---

In my view, the sign placement is consistent while the aspect shows the likely ease of expression or perceived challenge.

I can spot a Libra Mars/Moon easily. But i also recognize that there is a difference in expression with each-based on aspects to the sign placement.

Libra Mars can be rude/polite. The type of person to perhaps beat you up and then call an ambulance Because it just would not be "fair" to leave you laying there on the side of the road etc.

Now if Mars in Libra is trine Neptune, one usually is very charming and hardly aggressive. No matter what others think of the natives expression of their aggression, they are at ease within themselves that they are doing just fine (trine). Even if others consider them "timid".

Now if Mars squares Neptune, the charm is there but there is inner resistance or chasm which can be projected externally as other's disapproval of how this individual expresses their aggression.

There is an acute sensitivity to what others will say and do to "judge" them etc. So the native may respond in ways that seem to others "irrational", "indirect", "dodgy" or "sneaky" etc. Because the nature of the expression seems more based on fear of reproach than being comfortable with asserting oneself.

There is actually someone i knew at work with Neptune square Mars in Leo. Though not in Libra, i found the expression of the aspect quite telling.

He was always assuming someone out there was going to attack him or violently oppose him so he really mistrusted people and would often conduct his own private investigations on people he suspected would "do him in" to "catch them out" or "suprise them" etc.

He felt he had to always be "ready" to defend because "with people,you never know" etc. I found that an exhausting approach to life.

It could have been another aspect but the reason i tagged it with Mars is because i think he felt his "masculinity" and manner or expression was not appreciated and subject to attack by unknown secret forces etc.

posted September 03, 2016 11:37 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by scorpiogirl:
I've got Jupiter in Virgo. There have been countless times were different things have gone wrong in my life and they all went downhill at the same time. I could have dealt with them separately, but all together it was almost impossible for me. Even at times when I thought that a situation would go well, it almost always, at the last minute, ended badly, and then I had to pile it up to all the other **** (pardon me) I had to deal with.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well. It's a case of Murphy's Law, in short.

---

Oh yeah!! ^ I keep saying that to people - my life is Murphy's law.

Now I'm thinking it happens with Jupiter in Virgo, maybe, after reading your post.

posted September 03, 2016 09:05 PM            

I think that `overtime` dynamic normally comes when there are squares involved.

I think it helps to see each astrological factor as having purpose and potential. Rather than being `detrimental` in itself, I see these combinations as having potentials for detrimental effects if one does not find balance for the energies involved. Admittedly that is difficult for a child, for example, but it can and has been done.

Harmony has both smooth and sharp aspects. Beauty has both light and dark aspects. Someone reminded me recently that what is felt is distinct from actions taken.

I consider Moon in Capricorn, which I was born with, to be one of the more difficult positions, but there is also great strength in it. There is a strong paternal instinct there that can be very much appreciated by mate and children. An example that comes to mind is the genius bassistJaco Pastorius, since I recently watched the documentary about his life.

The detrimental (or `fallen`) positions indicate a person needing to seek a more balanced expression in the principle represented by that body. Moon in Capricorn folks need to warm up more to others, trust more, feel their emotions more freely and openly, etc.

I think each person can evaluate themselves for this balance, whether or not it can be artciculated. Essentially these positions -- particularly of personal planets -- mean it is
more a challenge to express yourself naturally in a healthy way -- unless a mutual reception situation in the chart alters it.

posted September 04, 2016 03:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Aries23Degrees,

I think that `overtime` dynamic normally comes when there are squares involved.

I think it helps to see each astrological factor as having purpose and potential. Rather than being `detrimental` in itself, I see these combinations as having potentials for detrimental effects if one does not find balance for the energies involved. Admittedly that is difficult for a child, for example, but it can and has been done.

Harmony has both smooth and sharp aspects. Beauty has both light and dark aspects. Someone reminded me recently that what is felt is distinct from actions taken.

I consider Moon in Capricorn, which I was born with, to be one of the more difficult positions, but there is also great strength in it. There is a strong paternal instinct there that can be very much appreciated by mate and children. An example that comes to mind is the genius bassist Jaco Pastorius, since I recently watched the documentary about his life.

The detrimental (or `fallen`) positions indicate a person needing to seek a more balanced expression in the principle represented by that body. Moon in Capricorn folks need to warm up more to others, trust more, feel their emotions more freely and openly, etc.

I think each person can evaluate themselves for this balance, whether or not it can be articulated. Essentially these positions -- particularly of personal planets -- mean it is more a challenge to express yourself naturally in a healthy way -- unless a mutual reception situation in the chart alters it.

---

Its interesting that you should mention the paternalistic nature of Cap Moon. As is evident from those that I know too.

Most are actively involved in their children's lives; perhaps not in the manner of holding their child's hand to and from school(Cancer Moon does that).

But I would imagine the Cap Moon to be the Mom/Dad that you are really nervous about approaching when you get your report card

I know and can sense in many that there is an inherent resistance of emotional expression.

Not so much expression, but an aversion to hysterics or sentimentally.Perhaps believing that they can so easily border on insincerity?

I remember getting a message from a Cap Moon who felt it appropriate to thank me for a favour that meant the world to him.

Picture William Shatner(Danny Krane)on the old "Boston Legal" getting "soft" i.e When emotions are expressed, they are done quickly,subtly and quietly. With some awkwardness therein. And never to be spoken of afterwards

posted September 04, 2016 04:45 PM            

I think its why I came to respect and admire Moon in Libra folks, including my mom and especially other women I know -- there is gracefulness, harmonizinng, etc, that flows without the unecessary inhibitions or formalities. And so I picked that mode of expression as the model for my `lunar development.`

posted September 04, 2016 06:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:

This debate has been ongoing for years with me i.e is it the aspect or the sign placement that is prevalent?

In my view, the sign placement is consistent while the aspect shows the likely ease of expression or perceived challenge.

I can spot a Libra Mars/Moon easily. But i also recognize that there is a difference in expression with each-based on aspects to the sign placement.

Libra Mars can be rude/polite. The type of person to perhaps beat you up and then call an ambulance Because it just would not be "fair" to leave you laying there on the side of the road etc.

Now if Mars in Libra is trine Neptune, one usually is very charming and hardly aggressive. No matter what others think of the natives expression of their aggression, they are at ease within themselves that they are doing just fine (trine). Even if others consider them "timid".

Now if Mars squares Neptune, the charm is there but there is inner resistance or chasm which can be projected externally as other's disapproval of how this individual expresses their aggression.

There is an acute sensitivity to what others will say and do to "judge" them etc. So the native may respond in ways that seem to others "irrational", "indirect", "dodgy" or "sneaky" etc. Because the nature of the expression seems more based on fear of reproach than being comfortable with asserting oneself.

There is actually someone i knew at work with Neptune square Mars in Leo. Though not in Libra, i found the expression of the aspect quite telling.

He was always assuming someone out there was going to attack him or violently oppose him so he really mistrusted people and would often conduct his own private investigations on people he suspected would "do him in" to "catch them out" or "suprise them" etc.

He felt he had to always be "ready" to defend because "with people,you never know" etc. I found that an exhausting approach to life.

It could have been another aspect but the reason i tagged it with Mars is because i think he felt his "masculinity" and manner or expression was not appreciated and subject to attack by unknown secret forces etc.

---

Just curious, man - how can you spot a Libra Mars/Moon easily?

Haha, I laughed at what you said about the rude/polite thing for Libra Mars. It's somewhat true, if they deserve it. Back in grade school, I knocked out an older/bigger kid's teeth because he beat up my younger/smaller neighbor. I didn't make sure he was ok though...

In regards to the sensitivity to judgement with the mars/neptune square, I can somewhat relate to that when I was younger. I definitely cared more about what people thought in my teens. Presently, not so much. Can't say if it just happened naturally or if I somehow evolved with that aspect. My progressed sun is in Scorpio, so that could perhaps contribute to more confidence and lack of concern for others' judgement.

posted September 05, 2016 02:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Yes, there can be an element of formality even those with Moon in Cappers that don`t seem especially inhibited. Past politeness to a level of respectfulness that can simply make things unnecessarily awkward for themselves.

I think its why I came to respect and admire Moon in Libra folks, including my mom and especially other women I know -- there is gracefulness, harmonizing, etc, that flows without the unecessary inhibitions or formalities. And so I picked that mode of expression as the model for my `lunar development.`

---

Interesting . I tried to "mimic" or adopt the Venus in Taurus' approach to mitigate my Venus in Scorpio's inherent volcanic eruptions.

What ended up happenin is that i got very resistant to the idea of fussing about lace doilies, bath soap or which spar treatment gives maximum skin rejuvenation?

Not disrespecting my Venus in Taurus friend or fellow knowflakes who share this placement that i was emulating at all. Its just that it ended up feeling "distant" from my true expression.

Like it or not, i am stuck with what i have. So i should make best with what i's got.

Although i must admit the Venus in Taurus' more sensual and slow to pleasure approach was appealing to me . So much so, that i somehow learned to develope it(dont ask me how)

I also agree that contact with earth via gardening (nice), walking in nature, painting/sculpting animals etc. Does have a therapeutic effect on my sometimes menacing emotional eruptions.

posted September 05, 2016 03:06 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Just curious, man - how can you spot a Libra Mars/Moon easily?

Haha, I laughed at what you said about the rude/polite thing for Libra Mars. It's somewhat true, if they deserve it. Back in grade school, I knocked out an older/bigger kid's teeth because he beat up my younger/smaller neighbor. I didn't make sure he was ok though...

In regards to the sensitivity to judgement with the mars/neptune square, I can somewhat relate to that when I was younger. I definitely cared more about what people thought in my teens. Presently, not so much. Can't say if it just happened naturally or if I somehow evolved with that aspect. My progressed sun is in Scorpio, so that could perhaps contribute to more confidence and lack of concern for others' judgement.

---

With regards to spotting" them, its mostly intuitive. Sometimes i mix the two up, but its always Mars or Moon in Libra.

With Libra, always look for propriety or playing by the rules. And this is not necessarily "fairness" or equitability in the "wholistic" sense of the word. But what they(the native) considers "just".

In the beginning, i look for tell tale words like ;
* "on the one hand....but then on the other"
* "what would you do if...."
* "are you sure that that is what the other person meant when they....."
* "maybe she meant to say ....."
* " tell me what you make of this....."
* "what does everyone else think?"
* " Would it be fair if i said...."
* " I see your point of view and where you are coming from, but what about....."
* "Do you think that you are being just/fair or right when you...."

And ofcourse my favourite , " You are not being fair" or "That is totally not fair" .

There are really so many. The list is not exhaustive . But these are phrases they use often and love to fall back on.

With Moon in Libra i notice that they are more passive and tend towards refraining from extreme emotions(barring other aspects or placements).

So anger especially or deep emotions are not likely to be examined extensively. Almost "breezing" through them or avoiding them if they can.

Mars in Libra doesnt avoid confrontations at all. But makes it seem like you are being the "irrational" & over emotional one by confronting them etc. Think Vince Vaughn's character on "The Breakup"

There is a "look at what you are making me do", "if you didn't behave this way, i would not act this way" approach to justifying their retaliation or anger.Almost like they are not responsible for their actions. You are the one that brought them out etc.

And ofcourse with Mars in Libra ,the above statements may be used to defend,make a point or disprove. And not necessarily to self soothe.

Mars in Libra ime can be quite violent(just as much as Aries). But they are are oh so slick at it. Never ever wanting to appear like a monster and making the action seem "justified" in some way or the other.

The sex drive is usually not apparent. Well not untill there is a mate that brings it out. And then they say " its only because you turn me on so much". No ownership

Oh yes, and i think the reason that you didn't check up on that boy was because you saw a clear and unambiguous act of injustice.

When it comes to that, Mars in Libra can be very unapologetic. But herein is the rub; after all is said and done and the "bad guy" has learned their lesson etc. A reconcilliation is wantedl

So the Libra Mars wants the person to learn and change the "error" in their ways and seek pardon from those they wronged.

Mars in Libra, like Moon there also likes a happy ending. They are not completely satisfied until all is well with the world again.

posted September 05, 2016 03:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
With regards to spotting" them, its mostly intuitive. Sometimes i mix the two up, but its always Mars or Moon in Libra.

With Libra, always look for propriety or playing by the rules. And this is not necessarily "fairness" or equitability in the "wholistic" sense of the word. But what they(the native) considers "just".

In the beginning, i look for tell tale words like ;
* "on the one hand....but then on the other"
* "what would you do if...."
* "are you sure that that is what the other person meant when they....."
* "maybe she meant to say ....."
* " tell me what you make of this....."
* "what does everyone else think?"
* " Would it be fair if i said...."
* " I see your point of view and where you are coming from, but what about....."
* "Do you think that you are being just/fair or right when you...."

And ofcourse my favourite , " You are not being fair" or "That is totally not fair" .

There are really so many. The list is not exhaustive . But these are phrases they use often and love to fall back on.

With Moon in Libra i notice that they are more passive and tend towards refraining from extreme emotions(barring other aspects or placements).

So anger especially or deep emotions are not likely to be examined extensively. Almost "breezing" through them or avoiding them if they can.

Mars in Libra doesnt avoid confrontations at all. But makes it seem like you are being the "irrational" & over emotional one by confronting them etc. Think Vince Vaughn's character on "The Breakup"

There is a "look at what you are making me do", "if you didn't behave this way, i would not act this way" approach to justifying their retaliation or anger.Almost like they are not responsible for their actions. You are the one that brought them out etc.

And ofcourse with Mars in Libra ,the above statements may be used to defend,make a point or disprove. And not necessarily to self soothe.

Mars in Libra ime can be quite violent(just as much as Aries). But they are are oh so slick at it. Never ever wanting to appear like a monster and making the action seem "justified" in some way or the other.

The sex drive is usually not apparent. Well not untill there is a mate that brings it out. And then they say " its only because you turn me on so much". No ownership

Oh yes, and i think the reason that you didn't check up on that boy was because you saw a clear and unambiguous act of injustice.

When it comes to that, Mars in Libra can be very unapologetic. But herein is the rub; after all is said and done and the "bad guy" has learned their lesson etc. A reconcilliation is wantedl

So the Libra Mars wants the person to learn and change the "error" in their ways and seek pardon from those they wronged.

Mars in Libra, like Moon there also likes a happy ending. They are not completely satisfied until all is well with the world again.

Well..that is until another "injustice" has them don their suit of righteousness to make it "just".

---

Ha I can relate to this, especially with "justifying" my actions, or when I'm pushed I usually tend to feel like someone is antagonizing me, though I know I'm just as much in the wrong, especially if I get violent. When I was younger I use to have rage/anger problems, it's hard to escape with prominent Mars/Pluto.. Ha but with my Mars also conjunct Mercury I feel like I have this compulsive need to speak my mind, but because it's in libra I'll care so much about accidentally offending people it's equally stressful because my words can be cutting but I do feel like I'm able to express myself pretty well and thorough in debate it's just so truthful it's more hurtful I guess, and not speaking my mind also just as stressful. I care too much about other people liking me and I really don't like confrantation but my Mars conjunction makes it unavoidable, so it seems to happen regardless (this could also be my Pluto conjunct DC? Attracting intense people, also Pluto closely parallel my sun/Mars/merc conj)

My Mars is in libra
Closely Conjunct my sun and Mercury
Square Uranus/Saturn/Neptune/and Jupiter
Closely parallel Pluto

My Venus is also in Scorpio
Conjunct Pluto/DC

posted September 06, 2016 10:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
With regards to spotting" them, its mostly intuitive. Sometimes i mix the two up, but its always Mars or Moon in Libra.

With Libra, always look for propriety or playing by the rules. And this is not necessarily "fairness" or equitability in the "wholistic" sense of the word. But what they(the native) considers "just".

In the beginning, i look for tell tale words like ;
* "on the one hand....but then on the other"
* "what would you do if...."
* "are you sure that that is what the other person meant when they....."
* "maybe she meant to say ....."
* " tell me what you make of this....."
* "what does everyone else think?"
* " Would it be fair if i said...."
* " I see your point of view and where you are coming from, but what about....."
* "Do you think that you are being just/fair or right when you...."

And ofcourse my favourite , " You are not being fair" or "That is totally not fair" .

There are really so many. The list is not exhaustive . But these are phrases they use often and love to fall back on.

With Moon in Libra i notice that they are more passive and tend towards refraining from extreme emotions(barring other aspects or placements).

So anger especially or deep emotions are not likely to be examined extensively. Almost "breezing" through them or avoiding them if they can.

Mars in Libra doesnt avoid confrontations at all. But makes it seem like you are being the "irrational" & over emotional one by confronting them etc. Think Vince Vaughn's character on "The Breakup"

There is a "look at what you are making me do", "if you didn't behave this way, i would not act this way" approach to justifying their retaliation or anger.Almost like they are not responsible for their actions. You are the one that brought them out etc.

And ofcourse with Mars in Libra ,the above statements may be used to defend,make a point or disprove. And not necessarily to self soothe.

Mars in Libra ime can be quite violent(just as much as Aries). But they are are oh so slick at it. Never ever wanting to appear like a monster and making the action seem "justified" in some way or the other.

The sex drive is usually not apparent. Well not untill there is a mate that brings it out. And then they say " its only because you turn me on so much". No ownership

Oh yes, and i think the reason that you didn't check up on that boy was because you saw a clear and unambiguous act of injustice.

When it comes to that, Mars in Libra can be very unapologetic. But herein is the rub; after all is said and done and the "bad guy" has learned their lesson etc. A reconcilliation is wantedl

So the Libra Mars wants the person to learn and change the "error" in their ways and seek pardon from those they wronged.

Mars in Libra, like Moon there also likes a happy ending. They are not completely satisfied until all is well with the world again.

Well..that is until another "injustice" has them don their suit of righteousness to make it "just".

---

posted September 07, 2016 04:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Interesting . I tried to "mimic" or adopt the Venus in Taurus' approach to mitigate my Venus in Scorpio's inherent volcanic eruptions.

What ended up happenin is that i got very resistant to the idea of fussing about lace doilies, bath soap or which spar treatment gives maximum skin rejuvenation?

Not disrespecting my Venus in Taurus friend or fellow knowflakes who share this placement that i was emulating at all. Its just that it ended up feeling "distant" from my true expression.

Like it or not, i am stuck with what i have. So i should make best with what i's got.

Although i must admit the Venus in Taurus' more sensual and slow to pleasure approach was appealing to me . So much so, that i somehow learned to develope it(dont ask me how)

I also agree that contact with earth via gardening (nice), walking in nature, painting/sculpting animals etc. Does have a therapeutic effect on my sometimes menacing emotional eruptions.

When i learned of these, i was like ;"these right here, are character developments i can keep"

---

It definetely takes time. We can change anything about our personalities we don`t like, but that could first require some deeper inner change. I know that was true for me. It can take years, even decades. It depends on how determined we are to change and become more balanced.

I lived with the effects of Moon in Cap for over 3 decades and finally saw that while it holds certain positives I came to appreciate, it no longer held any benefit for me. So I started changing. I learned about this from the Kryon material, otherwise it may`ve never occurred to me.

posted September 09, 2016 01:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
With regards to spotting" them, its mostly intuitive. Sometimes i mix the two up, but its always Mars or Moon in Libra.

With Libra, always look for propriety or playing by the rules. And this is not necessarily "fairness" or equitability in the "wholistic" sense of the word. But what they(the native) considers "just".

In the beginning, i look for tell tale words like ;
* "on the one hand....but then on the other"
* "what would you do if...."
* "are you sure that that is what the other person meant when they....."
* "maybe she meant to say ....."
* " tell me what you make of this....."
* "what does everyone else think?"
* " Would it be fair if i said...."
* " I see your point of view and where you are coming from, but what about....."
* "Do you think that you are being just/fair or right when you...."

And ofcourse my favourite , " You are not being fair" or "That is totally not fair" .

There are really so many. The list is not exhaustive . But these are phrases they use often and love to fall back on.

With Moon in Libra i notice that they are more passive and tend towards refraining from extreme emotions(barring other aspects or placements).

So anger especially or deep emotions are not likely to be examined extensively. Almost "breezing" through them or avoiding them if they can.

Mars in Libra doesnt avoid confrontations at all. But makes it seem like you are being the "irrational" & over emotional one by confronting them etc. Think Vince Vaughn's character on "The Breakup"

There is a "look at what you are making me do", "if you didn't behave this way, i would not act this way" approach to justifying their retaliation or anger.Almost like they are not responsible for their actions. You are the one that brought them out etc.

And ofcourse with Mars in Libra ,the above statements may be used to defend,make a point or disprove. And not necessarily to self soothe.

Mars in Libra ime can be quite violent(just as much as Aries). But they are are oh so slick at it. Never ever wanting to appear like a monster and making the action seem "justified" in some way or the other.

The sex drive is usually not apparent. Well not untill there is a mate that brings it out. And then they say " its only because you turn me on so much". No ownership

Oh yes, and i think the reason that you didn't check up on that boy was because you saw a clear and unambiguous act of injustice.

When it comes to that, Mars in Libra can be very unapologetic. But herein is the rub; after all is said and done and the "bad guy" has learned their lesson etc. A reconcilliation is wantedl

So the Libra Mars wants the person to learn and change the "error" in their ways and seek pardon from those they wronged.

Mars in Libra, like Moon there also likes a happy ending. They are not completely satisfied until all is well with the world again.

Well..that is until another "injustice" has them don their suit of righteousness to make it "just".

---

Libra mooner checking in. Yep, I often use these kind of phrases