posted September 19, 2016 05:13 PM            

I really like this description of Saturn in 12th:

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It’s a cliché but it must be said: people with Saturn in their 12th House are true old souls. The saying “wise beyond their years” really applies here, as they are able to understand, on deeply intuitive levels, difficult situations that they might not have even experienced. There is a downright poetic view of the darker, graver elements of life, seeming to channel a dissatisfaction that is bigger than themselves. Planets in the 12th House are not individually owned. They are our experience of humanity. We see them as belonging to others and, eventually, ourselves in ways that blurs boundaries. So, a 12th House Saturn has a deep sense of both their unhappiness and other people’s unhappiness, knowing just how life can screw you over, time and time again. However, there is also the potential to accept life’s hardships in a selfless, spiritually aware manner.

At an unevolved level, people can sometimes repress awareness of their 12th House planets, usually because the person grew up in an early environment where they were disallowed in some way. With Saturn in the 12th, the expression of dissatisfaction was disallowed. Parental figures preached a don’t-worry, be-happy philosophy, which might have reflected some deeply repressed unhappiness or loneliness on their part. The parents go through life almost ignorantly, foolishly happy. So, the child’s discontent went misunderstood. Either one or both of the parents were also rather childish, unable to take real responsibility for their actions and mistakes or to achieve their true goals in reality. Therefore, a child with a 12th House Saturn can feel like they’re being raised by children, not given solid, positive examples of how to be an adult on a personal and/or professional level.

However, there is a very deep-seated maturity lying within the Saturn in the 12th House person. It just might take them a while to consciously realize this side of themselves. Instead, they may have a habit of sailing through life as much childish unawareness as the parents. Those with this placement can insist on ignoring feelings of depression and anxiety, as well as what they see as a claustrophobic sense of responsibility. In short, they can resist the process of growing up, clinging to immature habits like an alcoholic does a bottle of liquor. And it can often feel like world wants to trap them and limit them through all of these adult trappings, like a steady career or a break from the environment and conditioning of their parents. These are feelings that can become particularly neurotic.

With Saturn in the 12th, it can seem like the world is the depressing place, not one’s self; that you’re happy and everyone else is miserable. If they’re dissociating from their Saturn, these people can go into a rather checked-out state when they hear people talking about how hard it is to pay their bills or how much they hate their job. However, they still have a deep-seated empathy (12th) for the difficulties (Saturn) of others. So, they can find themselves easily getting depressed by others’ problems, which can also lead to hidden feelings of guilt or cynicism. Saturn in this house might make you oblivious to how miserable you actually are. There can also be irrational phobias around achievement and ambition. Success can feel like a prison, leading you to remain adrift on your professional path or become secretly unhappy when you get ahead.

Therefore, the adultness and ambition of Saturn need to be brought to the surface. A 12th House Saturn is a very karmic position, resulting in the letting go of unconscious patterns that have become really crystallized. It can take a while for you to realize that no one is imprisoning you but yourself. By attempting to escape from responsibility or from your true goals in life, you’re only making it harder for yourself. Saturn in the 12th House is symbolic of the need for a very solid spiritual practice in life, whether it’s religion or philosophy or a New Age belief like astrology. It must be a form of spirituality that will help you structure your life and keep you from spending your existence in a babyish state. It must help you take conscious responsibility for your actions.

I always advise for people with 12th House planets to find ways to express them creatively. The universal humanity of these planets makes art a perfect outlet for them. With a 12th House Saturn, a very active artistic life becomes the outlet for your melancholy, as well as for your ancient wisdom and maturity. People with this placement are intuitively skilled at exploring the unhappiness of life through their art. People who are struggling and desperately trying to overcome obstacles are a real focus in their art and they channel a profound empathy into these stories. These are artists with true gravitas; geniuses at mining gritty, difficult subject matter. Saturn in the 12th also suggests that art can be the form of spirituality that structures one’s life. Being an artist will give them a deep sense of purpose, as well as a way to exert authority. 12th House Saturn artists tend to be very well-respected and looked up to, as their work is really accomplished, serious and ambitious.

Eventually, the authority that resides within everyone can be innately understood. These people can make excellent counselors, as they can teach people how to transcend the limitations (Saturn) that their imaginations (12th) are placing on them. Saturn in the 12th represents the wisdom that the only restrictions are the ones that we believe to be there. They can learn how to rise above their own limitations and recognize the ability for everyone else to do the same. But, it should also be said that they don’t want to (and shouldn’t) completely transcend the difficulties of life, in this more evolved state. They can go from the ignorance of trying to always be happy, instilled by their parents, to the acceptance that life is much richer and more inspiring when you’re often unhappy, on a certain level. This unhappiness can be seen as the fuel to reach the top of the mountain that they imagine. So, if you're always happy, where do you have left to go?

The 12th House represents self-sacrifice and this is how Saturn in the 12th can be self-sacrificing: by giving up some of their happiness. They come to see the maturity in this, arriving at a place of deep acceptance that being an adult means dealing with struggle. But, it’s the release of the ego-driven desire for constant happiness that allows them to deal with hardship with amazing resilience. 12th House Saturn people can navigate their way through tough times with an uncanny kind of determination and hardiness. It’s like everyone else is drowning in the turbulent waters while they are just fluidly swimming along, riding each wave with graceful, unflagging perseverance.

These people can also bear your suffering with a humane sense of responsibility. This is where the innate paradox of stern Saturn in the ever-giving 12th House comes into play. Your problems are simultaneously not their problem and are their problem. Saturn in the 12th House people will listen to you unload with great compassion. They understand exactly where you’re coming from, as they’re only human, too. For some people with this placement, others’ problems can wear them down. But, Saturn draws lines in the sand. So, at a more evolved level, they can empathize with you and seek to heal you while also not getting too caught up in your mess. If you want to solve your problems, then great. They’ll dependably stick by your side as you do. But, if you stay stuck in the muck, they’ll float off toward another direction. 12th House Saturn people, at their best, don’t try and control your happiness, one way or another. They totally believe that’s under your control.

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http://astroarena12.blogspot.com/2015/03/saturn-in-12th-house.html

posted September 19, 2016 08:31 PM            

My sun is in mutual reception with 12H Saturn.

My father also had 12H Saturn.

I am really protective of him and can't relate to any readings that try and tell me he was inadequate or uncaring. But he was human like anyone, made some choices that left me in a hard situation.

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Saturn in this house might make you oblivious to how miserable you actually are.

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And that's bad? LOL

But I like this a lot:

quote:

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They can go from the ignorance of trying to always be happy, instilled by their parents, to the acceptance that life is much richer and more inspiring when you’re often unhappy, on a certain level. This unhappiness can be seen as the fuel to reach the top of the mountain that they imagine. So, if you're always happy, where do you have left to go?

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Well maybe it's just that by reconnecting with our pain we can appreciate the fullness of every moment from a more informed sense of where we came from, what we're actually about.

12H Saturn can cause a nebulous sense of guilt that for me has plagued me with feelings of shame over things that basically everyone else goes through too, and are just part of life. But it seems that while others were resolving their Saturn issues, mine seemed about hopeless - foggy - too far out of reach.

I've needed training and encouragement on how to actually love myself, because that guilt-shame can really get in the way of that. 12H Saturn absent father syndrome can also translate to a lack of support (financial, emotional) to fortify a person when they are weak, which puts us at a real disadvantage (my father was much older than me and constrained by physical limitations, and died when I had just turned 31, so I didn't have much time with him.)

Might have more to add to this later, or some to remove.

posted September 19, 2016 09:47 PM            

My Saturn is my chart ruler and is also in Capricorn and conjunct my Neptune (and Uranus). So it has defined a lot of my life.

I'm 27 and my Saturn Return begins next year. I feel like I am really coming to a place of peace with my Saturn. It's like nearing the end of a cycle right now and it is making me feel better about myself and my life.

I am basically realizing how hard I have worked and how disciplined I am but how easy it is for me to underestimate my achievements and feel like a failure because said achievements are not "worldly". I have been so self disciplined in terms of my spiritual growth (like with astrology), my healing, my artistic talents, my journey toward rising above ego. All 12th House things. These things haven't lead to a ton of material gain. In fact, I am plagued by a feeling of practical stability being out of grasp somehow. But the inner gain I have reaped is such a blessing.

And I feel more mature and more in touch with my purpose than many people who have way more than me as far as those worldly rewards, as in material possessions and career success. Saturn in the 12th House people are supposed to learn the wisdom of deep, internal, soul level accomplishment. Everything else is temporary and often downright meaningless.

And I trust that during my Saturn Return, all the time I have spent on developing my soul and my spirit will pay off and somewhat "magically". The Universe doesn't want me to seek success in an overly practical way. I really just have to do a lot of surrendering to the Higher Plan and allowing things to fall into place.

But that is just one aspect of my Saturn in the 12th House. It is a very complicated but very beautiful placement and I would never ever trade it.

posted September 19, 2016 10:35 PM            

I understand that talking about people's parents is a very touchy area. I don't think it's fair to tell someone that their parent is awful or didn't care about them without first being prompted by that person's experiences.

But all parents have flaws and I think placements like this show how the issues between parent and child manifest. And it's never healthy to see your parent as completely wonderful and flawless, either.

So, with Saturn in the 12th, there is this theme I see time and time again of the father figure somehow being "missing" in terms of providing structure, whether through physical absence (death or abandonment), psychological absence (addiction, unreliability, lack of strong connection) or possibly weakness or illness (poor health or physical afflictions).

The problem is that most descriptions end right there and don't include the necessity for healing. They just make it fatalistic. It doesn't have to mean "horrible father and person."Acknowledging that certain issues or this pain exists between you and your father (and I am not just saying literally you but as in all of us) and doing something about it is crucial to maturing and growing. Saturn is how we grow up and working through those daddy issues is a key part.

But, I think there are two wonderful possibilities with this placement. A person can learn self-discipline and how to find their purpose alone or spiritually, without the father's help, and, because of this, release expectations of the father and forgive him for being or feeling absent. The Higher Power becomes your greater father figure while you can just love and accept the earthly father for who he is.

Also, in the case of the father who has passed on, he can become a stronger presence in his passing than he was in life; a guardian spirit for the person. I also think Saturn in the 12th House people inherit our spiritual and artistic nature from our father, who is usually very Neptunian and probably interested in these things himself. But I think we have a chance to use our access to the otherworldly to gain strength, while these things just may make the father a lost, sad, or chaotic soul in the world. In some way, having this placement means carrying and transforming Dad's karma, as well.

posted September 20, 2016 12:05 AM            

"They are our experience of humanity. We see them as belonging to others and, eventually, ourselves in ways that blurs boundaries. So, a 12th House Saturn has a deep sense of both their unhappiness and other people’s unhappiness, knowing just how life can screw you over, time and time again. However, there is also the potential to accept life’s hardships in a selfless, spiritually aware manner."

"These people can make excellent counselors, as they can teach people how to transcend the limitations (Saturn) that their imaginations (12th) are placing on them. Saturn in the 12th represents the wisdom that the only restrictions are the ones that we believe to be there. They can learn how to rise above their own limitations and recognize the ability for everyone else to do the same. But, it should also be said that they don’t want to (and shouldn’t) completely transcend the difficulties of life, in this more evolved state. They can go from the ignorance of trying to always be happy, instilled by their parents, to the acceptance that life is much richer and more inspiring when you’re often unhappy, on a certain level. This unhappiness can be seen as the fuel to reach the top of the mountain that they imagine. So, if you're always happy, where do you have left to go?"

posted September 20, 2016 12:10 AM            

My parents see me as very strong and resilient and they have pointed this out since I was a kid but saying that I just fluidly swim along through hard times feels like a stretch lol, I sure don't feel that way lol...

posted September 20, 2016 01:06 AM            

I don't think I knew the full extent of my strength until I had to deal with transiting Pluto conjunct my Saturn a few years ago (which the retrograde has restarted). For a good year and a half, I sank into the deepest, scariest funk of my life. Everything was just a total mess and I felt so stuck. But I somehow found a way to keep functioning and to eventually find stability amidst the chaos and keep my head above water. And nobody ever knew what I was going through either. Looking back, it amazes me how strong I was and how I never gave up. Pluto really made me find a new power in that sense.

posted September 20, 2016 09:41 AM            

So eloquent, thank you.

My father was a 12H Saturn as I said. Maybe he attained that fatherless growth that you are talking about, and that's why he was such a good father to me, for the most part (I allow some flaws, but I really love him, and that makes me kind of indifferent to the details.)

My dad had a deeply painful, lifelong rift with his own father, who was an imposing and severe person by all accounts I've ever heard. That's probably why I think I've never even looked at his chart before. Negative feelings associated with him. So I just fetched his exact birthday and year, just now, to see what I could see.

And I really cannot get over this.

My grandfather's Saturn 7 Sag
My father's Saturn 5 Sag
My husband's Saturn 7 Sag
My draconic Saturn 10 Sag, my Neptune 12 Sag
Edit: My other grandfather's Saturn 18 Sag

I didn't know real astrology back when I got married, only sun signs, so it's not like I planned anything! I just find it really interesting that all those Saturns are conjunct my Neptune, so it is Saturnized through synastry...while my Saturn is Neptunized by being in the 12H, and in other ways.

posted September 20, 2016 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
"The 12th House represents self-sacrifice and this is how Saturn in the 12th can be self-sacrificing: by giving up some of their happiness. They come to see the maturity in this, arriving at a place of deep acceptance that being an adult means dealing with struggle. But, it’s the release of the ego-driven desire for constant happiness that allows them to deal with hardship with amazing resilience. 12th House Saturn people can navigate their way through tough times with an uncanny kind of determination and hardiness. It’s like everyone else is drowning in the turbulent waters while they are just fluidly swimming along, riding each wave with graceful, unflagging perseverance."

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posted September 20, 2016 05:15 PM            

Saturn 27SCO55, 12H, squaring Sun/Moon in Pisces 3H.

posted September 21, 2016 11:41 PM            

I'm glad you like your Saturn in 12th! I'm learning to like mine, as well.

I am plagued by a similar sense of guilt. Sometimes that guilt fuels acts of compassion and selflessness, like picking a job/profession that is frequently emotionally, mentally and physically draining. I struggled with that decision for a long time, but have come to realize that's just who I am.

My dad was/is emotionally distant. He was always working and somewhat critical. He also has a 12th house Saturn, so he carried those traits down from his father, who was extremely strict and cold towards him until later in life. My dad was never cold, he was just cool and distant (there is very much a difference, to me) and frequently absent due to work obligations. It used to bother me a lot, but I've learned to stand on my own.

It's an odd thing for me to need people when I'm so used to feeling needed and taking care of other people.

The funny thing is that I've always gotten along fine with my grandfather. We both have Aquarius NN - his is at 5 degrees, mine at 6. His Saturn is conjunct my ASC, his Scorpio stellium is sextile my Virgo stellium and conjunct my Pluto. He also has Mars and Neptune in Virgo. I even share some physical characteristics with him, that no one else in our family has.

posted September 21, 2016 11:58 PM            

It's a wonderful article!

I also have Saturn in Capricorn/12th conjunct Uranus and Neptune.

I have a couple of years to go before my Saturn return starts. Saturn has been on my MC/10th house though, so I feel as if I've been getting mini-lessons for a while now. I do feel like my head is more squarely on my shoulders than it was before…my outlook is more realistic, even if it's a bit pessimistic or depressing to other people, it's where I feel like my head/heart/thoughts/emotions should be right now.

One thing I have noticed recently, is how well I manage a crisis. That was the part of your article that struck a chord, with me. It seems like when everyone else is falling apart, I start making a plan to get things done. People close to me always remark at just how well I take hits. Even though, during the crisis, I don't feel like I'm doing a very good job. Apparently, I am.

posted September 22, 2016 03:57 PM            

It looks like you were born the year after me! Because I have North Node in Aquarius at 25 degrees and my Saturn Return will begin in 2017. Technically, it will start as soon as transiting Saturn enters my 12th, which will occur near the end of Sagittarius, around my 28th birthday. Then, in December, as soon as Saturn goes into Capricorn, I'll already be feeling it. Also, we have that super-rare triple conjunction going on. Is your North Node also in the 1st, as mine is?

And yes, I am very ready for my Saturn Return too, as funny as it sounds. I feel like it's just going to be a major change. Jupiter will conjunct my Moon and MC near the end of 2017, once it goes into Scorpio. I just have this sense that my goals are finally going to come to fruition. You never want to over-anticipate a transit. But, I plan on working my butt off until then to prepare and make it happen.

Also, I definitely relate to the not looking for people's help thing. I've always been like that and I used to think it was just my Scorpio energy (Saturn is also exactly sextile my Moon). But, it's this placement, too. I just think that whatever is in your 12th House is what you have to come to terms with alone. Not to paint an overly depressing picture but the 12th House is the house that pretty much tells you that you're going to die alone. It is the house of "the end". 12th House people know exactly what it feels like to be in that place psychologically, where it seems like you have no one and nothing left.

So, I think the 12th House makes it pretty much impossible for other people to fully support whatever is in there. You have to do it by yourself and with the help of your Higher Power/creative guides and inspirations. Since Saturn is your problems, Saturn in the 12th House means that you basically have to deal with your problems on your own. This gives you the strength to selflessly help others with their problems and not expect the same from them in return.

So, when you're so used to handling your problems by yourself, it makes you a very strong person; amazingly strong, actually. But, it's such an unconscious thing for us that we may underestimate or be oblivious to our strength. I think every Saturn in the 12th House person has to be pushed to the edge at some point in life, like mental-breakdown level stuff, and push through it to become consciously aware of the true strength they have, deep down.

posted September 22, 2016 11:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:

Also, I definitely relate to the not looking for people's help thing. I've always been like that and I used to think it was just my Scorpio energy (Saturn is also exactly sextile my Moon). But, it's this placement, too. I just think that whatever is in your 12th House is what you have to come to terms with alone. Not to paint an overly depressing picture but the 12th House is the house that pretty much tells you that you're going to die alone. It is the house of "the end". 12th House people know exactly what it feels like to be in that place psychologically, where it seems like you have no one and nothing left.

So, I think the 12th House makes it pretty much impossible for other people to fully support whatever is in there. You have to do it by yourself and with the help of your Higher Power/creative guides and inspirations. Since Saturn is your problems, Saturn in the 12th House means that you basically have to deal with your problems on your own. This gives you the strength to selflessly help others with their problems and not expect the same from them in return.

So, when you're so used to handling your problems by yourself, it makes you a very strong person; amazingly strong, actually. But, it's such an unconscious thing for us that we may underestimate or be oblivious to our strength. I think every Saturn in the 12th House person has to be pushed to the edge at some point in life, like mental-breakdown level stuff, and push through it to become consciously aware of the true strength they have, deep down.

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posted September 23, 2016 11:09 AM            

Becoming an addict would be one of my worst nightmares. The idea of it strangely fascinates me, though. I feel like a lot of 12th House Saturn people go the opposite way of that part of the Neptune profile and become the anti-addict. We want the bliss and escape but we want it to be in a controlled circumstance. The only famous case of this placement and a battle with addiction that I can think of is Whitney. But she was also a Pisces Rising and that probably made it harder for her.

posted September 23, 2016 11:34 AM            

I avoid certain drugs completely though and would never try them.

But for example with weed when I found out that I was going to move back to Miami and leave Colorado I quit right there and then cold turkey overnight and did not smoke at all for over two years and when I did smoke weed it was mainly to help me fall sleep and relax at night not bc I loved getting high.

I was never one of those people that needed to be high all day. In fact I dont like feeling high or drunk all day, it's extremely easy for me to exercise control with drugs and use in moderation.

Oh and I have never used drugs to scape reality or numb myself. I used them to explore and expand my horizons or out of curiosity responsibly.

I remember when I use to smoke cigarettes a long long time ago. I wouldn't smoke more than one cigarette a day. With alcohol I typically have one drink and sometimes two and that is it.

I have always been proud about this and find it hard to understand how people get lost in drugs bc of it. I think saturn in the 12th actually makes me mature and a responsible drug user that takes drugs seriously and approaches them maturely knowing which ones to explore responsibly and which ones to avoid completely.

posted September 23, 2016 11:37 AM            

Yeah you do get cases like that. Some of us go through our "phase" with that lifestyle. But I think we learn the consequences of going too far or indulging too much in substances very harshly. The very few times I have gone too far with alcohol have been utter disasters. So most of us figure out how to stay on top of that and stick to our limitations with drinking or any other substances.

posted September 24, 2016 02:34 AM            

I was looking up Moon conjunct Mars descriptions, because it's such an integral part of my personality. It's basically second nature, so it's easy to not see it, but that's because it works seamlessly...there's no disconnect.

Anyway, I ended up back on your blog. This description is the only one of Moon conjunct Mars that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out, lol. (But seriously, why does astrology have to be so fatalistic sometimes?)

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In any case, this relationship conditions you to fight your way through the jungle of life. And a lot of this can be a self-protective thing. Moon-Mars aspects are interesting in that they combine the aggressive force of Mars with the innate sensitivity of the Moon. In fact, people with these aspects tend to be highly sensitive, even if it’s not exactly obvious. It tends to be covered with plenty of bravado, as their impulse whenever faced with insecurity (Moon) is to just bluster their way through it (Mars). So, Moon-Mars people are actually very good at appearing fearless and fierce when they’re actually scared ******** ; so good that they might not even be fully aware of their fear, as the Moon often operates in such an unconscious manner.

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http://astroarena12.blogspot.com/2015/08/moon-mars-aspects-defender.html

I looked at my Moon-Mars conjunction specifically because I have a Thor's hammer configuration involving my Saturn in 12th, Moon-Mars conjunction and Venus. So when I read that ^^ I got a clearer picture of what's going on with my Saturn in 12th. It makes more sense to me why I would use the negativity that I pick up on or experience with Saturn as fuel to keep me going.

posted September 24, 2016 03:16 AM            

I have Aquarius NN in my 12th house. I have Aquarius ASC as well, so I definitely seem to be headed in that direction of figuring out my 12th house in this lifetime, with an individualistic and altruistic spin on it.

Yep, I have the triple conjunction in Capricorn. Pluto has been monkeying around with my Neptune lately (and prior to that, my Uranus). Mid-2017, Pluto will be conjunct my Saturn, so I have that to look forward to. Although it's a generational transit, it seems like a fairly significant one. Have you experienced this transit yet?

quote:

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So, when you're so used to handling your problems by yourself, it makes you a very strong person; amazingly strong, actually. But, it's such an unconscious thing for us that we may underestimate or be oblivious to our strength. I think every Saturn in the 12th House person has to be pushed to the edge at some point in life, like mental-breakdown level stuff, and push through it to become consciously aware of the true strength they have, deep down.

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posted September 24, 2016 03:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
I would imagine Pluto being involved makes you even more in command of it, hypatia! I have Uranus and Neptune conjunct Saturn so I guess it was a bit more tempting for me to push it to the edge when I first started drinking (and I also was in college). But that attitude was very short lived haha. I quickly learned to be a lot more careful even at that age.

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