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Author Topic:   Does Pluto = Terror in Chart?
starr33
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posted October 01, 2016 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for starr33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Saturn is Fear, does Pluto mean you experience terror or underlying torment where ever it resides in your chart? I ask because right now my economic life brings me great anxiety and unrest. In fact, it always has, and Pluto is in my 2nd house natally. It is progressing my twelfth, and I believe past life issues are coming to a head. Sun rules the 12th and is placed in the second. I really feel like I'm in my own economic prison; holding myself hostage. Eight of Swords kind of thing.

Have you experienced terror in the house your natal or progressed Pluto is placed? Do you feel you hold the key for freedom but it is hidden?

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whaaat
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posted October 01, 2016 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whaaat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm really sorry you're going through this Starr33

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starr33
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posted October 01, 2016 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starr33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Whaaat. I'm sorry you are enduring your family situation. Family dynamics can be very painful; can cut you to pieces. I'm just tired of suffering, aren't you? Incidentally, the ruler of my 2nd is in my fourth, so I understand at least some of your anxiety. I've written a few posts on here, years ago, about my early home-life and how lonely I was.

By all means remove your personal post; I just wanted some real-life confirmation of what I've read about Pluto's effect in the houses. It has positive effects, too, although I don't think we notice until AFTER the struggle and demolition.

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whaaat
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posted October 01, 2016 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whaaat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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whaaat
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posted October 01, 2016 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whaaat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starr33:
I just wanted some real-life confirmation of what I've read about Pluto's effect in the houses. It has positive effects, too, although I don't think we notice until AFTER the struggle and demolition.

I really hope you find some way to feel better, or even figure out a way to work around this energy


Of course it's always better when someone can just comment, especially when they can rationalize their experience through astrology but have you tried astrotheme- search by placement?
http://www.astrotheme.com/celebrities/search_by_astrological_criteria.php

You can look at celebrities who have Pluto in the 2nd house and how their lives turned out and hopefully find an answer!


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BeholdAstarte
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posted October 01, 2016 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose terror could be used to describe Pluto, it seems like my relationship life is certainly filled with intensely agitating and tense times.. Not to mention all the suspicion, paranoia and emotional outbursts. There's always just intense bonds and agonizing break ups.. It's too much. It's like relationships bring out my worst controlling and manipulative side out to get what I want.. It seems like certain people can bring that side out stronger than others.

My Venus is conjunct Pluto on the DC in Scorpio. Venus is my chart ruler, I personally feel like this is one of my strongest aspects in myself that I always relate to.

Relationships are a struggle and a constant reflection of myself and reevaluating my dark side. The fourth leg to my 7 planet t-square is in the 12th house.: sometimes I do think that when I'm alone I'm at my best. I'm so philosophical and open.. I don't get why when I'm with someone all these intense emotions surface and is almost uncontrollable like I'm overtaken by such intense desires I try to detach myself but it's so hard. So I go from extremes of being isolated and alone to being maddeningly obsessed with particular persons. A constant fear of betrayal, and overall suspicion in my social life.. It's too complicated, but I think I'm getting better at it as im growing.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted October 01, 2016 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The answer is no. Pluto is the inner underworld of the unconscious, the unconsciously seeded drive for total consciousnness, power, the ultimate.

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SalemsEnd
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posted October 02, 2016 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SalemsEnd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It can be linked to a feeling of CRISES, or just general anxiety.

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PixieJane
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posted October 02, 2016 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not for me. But when it transited my 5H stellium (that includes Mars-Uranus), it did seem to churn up some terrifying experiences (but at the same time made me terrifying to others in some strange ways).

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Chaos
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posted October 02, 2016 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chaos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to quote BeholdAstarte, it's a long post, but I can relate, got a 7H Scorpio Pluto, and 1st-7th are intercepted, it sucks major balls...

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Aries23Degrees
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posted October 02, 2016 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starr33:
If Saturn is Fear, does Pluto mean you experience terror or underlying torment where ever it resides in your chart? I ask because right now my economic life brings me great anxiety and unrest. In fact, it always has, and Pluto is in my 2nd house natally. It is progressing my twelfth, and I believe past life issues are coming to a head. Sun rules the 12th and is placed in the second. I really feel like I'm in my own economic prison; holding myself hostage. Eight of Swords kind of thing.

Have you experienced terror in the house your natal or progressed Pluto is placed? Do you feel you hold the key for freedom but it is hidden?


Pluto is in the 2nd natally and progessing the 12th??? This much doesnt make sense to me

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Lerena
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posted October 02, 2016 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Pluto is in the 2nd natally and progessing the 12th??? This much doesnt make sense to me

It probably has to do with her progressed Ascendant being different from her actual Ascendant.

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starr33
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posted October 04, 2016 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for starr33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Progressed Asc. is now in Libra.

Thank you, BeholdAstarte for revealing your feelings. I'm sure it was painful for you and I appreciate your contribution.

Kannon: It's so fitting my Progressed Pluto is in such an unconscious house. There's no getting away from this.

SalemsEnd: Yes, I am definitely in a financial crises that is causing great anxiety.


PixieJane: "(but at the same time made me terrifying to others in some strange ways)."

Hmm...would like to know more about this...


Chaos: LMAO


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PixieJane
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posted October 04, 2016 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starr33:
PixieJane: "(but at the same time made me terrifying to others in some strange ways)."

Hmm...would like to know more about this...


People tend to get exaggerated views of me be it good or bad, and both equally baffle me. If there's an astrology to it then it's probably the Neptune in my Sag stellium.

It was much worse when I was a teen (in which Pluto was transiting my Sag stellium), but it could've been that I was a teen and in some pretty intense situations.

I recall some thought I was a Satanist who took part in demonic rites. One older guy (looked to be high school to me while I was 13-14) asked if it was true if I worshiped Satan. I told him, "Yes, and I cast spells, so shut up." He turned away from me and looked so scared that I laughed (which probably sounded like the cackle of the wicked witch to him ), though my friends found that equally funny (but my adult relatives told me to stop adding wood to that particular fire). Though one girl said, knowing I was listening, that she saw me killing cats on Halloween, and the thought of anyone killing cats made me angry and I was like, "You saw me killing cats and didn't try to stop me!? YOU'RE SICK! You should've at least called the cops if you saw something like that." The look on her face was hilarious, and it also cost her credibility (I was more plagued by **** rumors than the ones of being a Satanist), but at least in her case she didn't look scared of me (and she most certainly did not see me killing cats at any time).

But at least those were kids, and it was a very rural region (also as the Satanic Panics were still fizzling out, though mostly discredited by that point in places other than Texas). But to this day I'm scandalized that about 2 years later a high school COUNSELOR (possibly even a psychiatrist, I'm a bit unclear on what her exact position was) not only saw me as a Satanist, but also thought I'd come back to school (after spending about 6 months as a runaway) to hunt down a victim for my cult to sacrifice to save myself.

I bluntly asked her where she got such stupid ideas from and she said something about a "newsletter" she got that told her all about "my kind." And some time later I drew suns, moons, and stars on my jeans with a yellow highlighter (for which I was sent home) with her saying that was more proof (I think she believed it was like the stereotypical wizard robes with such symbols, and I bet she thinks astrology is of the devil as well.) It's a black mark on any school that would hire someone like that to counsel kids, but then the principal was pretty much just as bad in his own way (I don't think he believed her about my being a Satanist, but he was certainly willing to play along, though that's not the worst about him).

Unsurprisingly, it got worse right after Columbine. There was a story I'd written for class which the class loved but was considered so insulting that I got an F for it and was even given ISS (In School Suspension). My story was also confiscated (and presumed destroyed) so when a friend wanted to put it in his zine (short for magazine, a "zine" is an amateur magazine typically meant for one's own friends or a very select base which were typically printed up from a home computer, which he had) we had to recreate it. He spiced it up with a lot of violence and profanity, and added in the 2 ABC (Adaptive Behavior Class which we both were in and kept separate from the rest of the school) teachers, and then whereas mine ended with the school principal getting away in a helicopter as he expelled the entire class, he changed it to where he shot down that helicopter that also had the 2 teachers in it. He also added his own name to it so the teachers and principal would well know which part was mine, and which parts he changed and added to it.

In any case, it was really popular, but then Columbine happened and I believe it was the Monday after that an entire school assembly was held (and even our class was sent to it) in which the principal urged people to turn in anyone who might be angry enough to do something similar (a classmate turned to us and said, "Dude, that's everyone I know!" ) I didn't think anything of it when an ABC teacher came to take me to the office and glared at me with such hatred as she dug her nails into my arm hard enough to leave bruises (which, in retrospect, is why I believe the police weren't called on me later) and I shoved her back into the wall and said in a no nonsense ways, "Don't touch me."

Having been a runaway, I learned how to fight back. I had been patient with the adult incompetence and malice until then as I didn't expect any better, but digging her nails into my arm was crossing a line I was not going to tolerate. She went from glaring at me balefully to looking terrified which bemused me (I later realized she thought, "It's Columbine all over again! I'm going to die!") And in the office was the idiot counselor who thought I was a Satanist with the principal and my mother, and a copy of that zine folded to where the altered story began (my co-author, creator of that zine, hadn't shown up to school that day).

This kind of crap died down once I was into my 20s (in part it could be because I adopted a much more normal, feminine appearance--it was also funny that even at age 22 I sometimes got carded to get into an R-rated movie, but once I stopped getting around everywhere on a skateboard and wore more feminine attire then that stopped, among other things, and meanwhile transiting Pluto was also distancing itself significantly from my Sag stellium).

There were incidents as an adult but it became rarer and rarer (and again, the delusions could portray me as a saint as much as a monster). I'll see if I can find where I shared of one hilarious incident that happened a little over 5 years ago (I think right after my Saturn return) on LL before and then come back to this.

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PixieJane
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posted October 04, 2016 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DP

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PixieJane
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posted October 04, 2016 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That incident a few years ago...quick background: a guy who taught computers at a community college loved getting all sorts of gadgets, and one was a phone with vox so he could "cut down grocery shopping time" by coordinating with his wife through the vox, but he couldn't get it to work and had given up on it. I said I'd fix it for $20 and he agreed.

So first thing I did when I got it home was call up the manual OL (my plan was to go to a nearby Radio Shack and ask one of the guys there if they could get it to work for me but I wanted to ask something more intelligent than "can you make this work") and I was inspired right away as I scrolled through the "don't be stupid" section (you know "If there's no power then check to make sure it's plugged in" part) to make sure the screens matched on both phones...going through all of them (one phone in each hand) I found one screen that didn't matched and adjusted it so it did...and the vox then worked! Easy money.

So later my (not biologically) then 12-year-old girl is visiting a friend at the same complex where they're on the computer in the living room, the same one her friend's mother used who was present. Her friend wanted to show her a YT vid but couldn't find it so my girl found it through the history logs...but as the mother was the last one signed into YT the video was still in her account and when the mother noticed she threw a fit (and was unable to understand what happened) accusing my girl of hacking her account!

This mother demanded to know where she learned to "hack" computers and she said I'd shown her how to access the history logs (apparently this child explaining it to her in even simple terms must've sounded like tech talk and hacker slang, and as understandable to the mother as Ancient Greek ) and when the mother asked what else I'd taught her she replied how to do all kinds of research. Being a little girl she focused on different things than adults do so started talking about the then popular Taylor Swift video You Belong With Me and said the guy Taylor's character liked looked familiar and she said I was really fast on the computer and found out he was the actor in the Hannah Montana movie who played the love interest of Miley (and it was where he and Taylor first met while making the movie together and she invited him to be in her music video), and when the mother asked how fast she said "like Wade " (and then explained he's the "computer hacker who helps Kim Possible"). And that was all the mother had to hear.

The mother started calling neighbors asking about me and that included the wife of the man--an instructor who taught a class on computers--whose vox I'd fixed and that cinched it, it was spread that I was a computer hacker that even computer experts paid to help them, and I was teaching the kids how to crack computers (possibly for my own criminal ends) and then my girl (the boy just played games if he got on a computer) was watched closely if she was allowed in (or on a computer) at all.

I'm glad my girl had a sense of humor about it and given something else going on at the time it wasn't that big of a deal...when I told her about how some idiot adults thought I was a Satanist when I wasn't much older than her she asked to borrow my copies of The Satanic Bible and the Satanic Witch (which I refused since I knew she just wanted them to mess with the heads of the adults...fun, yes, especially at that age, but not something I should encourage).

Though also worth noting is that many of those people who thought I was a hacker were also sure my BFF (with 5H Pluto) was a drug dealer, which is absurd, and I saw a woman flinch when my BFF reached into her purse. Granted, my BFF is black (which tends to make other people stupid in their assumptions), but dang. She and I can commiserate in how people sometimes react to us (though she said people thinking I killed people in the name of Satan beat all her experiences ).

Again, some see me in a good light, even a kindred spirit. Should I try to explain I was more complicated or different then how they envisioned me, they could even argue me. (One goth even kinda convinced me I was a goth though I told her I wasn't really, even if shared plenty of interests and could pass as one. She was not going to take my word for it that I wasn't one, even saying that my denial was just further proof. )

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Hemilla
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posted October 05, 2016 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well mine is in 5th i could be one of those paranoid parents in the future def'o

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BeholdAstarte
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posted October 05, 2016 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chaos:
Not to quote BeholdAstarte, it's a long post, but I can relate, got a 7H Scorpio Pluto, and 1st-7th are intercepted, it sucks major balls...

Aahhh it's such an intense placement! Would you consider yourself a loner? And relationships have big lesson themes?

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starr33
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posted October 07, 2016 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starr33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My God, Pixie!

[You saw me killing cats and didn't try to stop me!? YOU'RE SICK!]

Good one, very quick witted you are...


[In School Suspension]

I was suspended for a few days because I actually got into a fist fight, but I was home. Is this like detention, where you went into a room with others, like The Breakfast Club? I can imagine your musings from those isolated times.

[she dug her nails into my arm hard enough to leave bruises (which, in retrospect, is why I believe the police weren't called on me later) and I shoved her back into the wall and said in a no nonsense ways, "Don't touch me."]


That teacher/councilor can go to hell!

Where is your Sag Stellium?

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Kannon McAfee
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posted October 07, 2016 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
People respond differently to Pluto depending on whether they feel they are Pluto or Persephone, and where they are with personal empowerment.

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PixieJane
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posted October 07, 2016 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ISS (In School Suspension) was a class which had a very strict no talking rule, and included kids from all grades. Typically a male coach oversaw it, but even he didn't talk or do any teaching other than make sure we obeyed the rules. It was essentially a "time out" in which we got our week's assignments on Monday and turned them in when we got done. Our lunch period was between A & B (that is, we didn't even mix with the rest of the school during lunch).

ABC (Adaptive Behavior Class) also shared the lunch period between A & B and also had a mix of grades (I think of it as they were quarantining us from the rest of the school) that was overseen by 2 teachers, both of whom supposedly had some form of psychological credentials, though a volatile male coach (not the same as the one in ISS) sometimes substituted. Other than the buses, we also didn't interact with the rest of the school, though we were allowed to talk to each other in ABC (and though our schoolwork was somewhat customized to each of us personally, the teachers did act as teachers, including in presentations). ABC was something a lot closer to the Breakfast Club than ISS was, though it was intended for kids who were smarter than most but also disruptive (and over half of us had been locked up in an infamous mental hospital at one time or another and/or had been runaways on the streets). Though ABC was in many ways as Orwellian as it sounds, it also liked to reward us for cooperating, so we got to see a lot of movies that the rest of the school didn't, for example.

ISS and ABC weren't allowed to mix. It was funny the time that most of ABC got stuck in ISS for awhile (about everyone present that day, meaning that ABC had only about 3 while the rest was mixed in with ISS for a couple of weeks). We'd see each other at lunch since both classes were in between A&B Lunches, but we weren't allowed to talk, or even wave at each other. (Again, those in ISS weren't even allowed to interact with each other.)

I have 5H Sag (moon, Mars, Uranus, Neptune, plus asteroids) sextile 3H sun and stellium. My Libra and much of my Sag is on the Scorpio cusp. Pluto was transiting my Sag stellium at the time.

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leo_moon
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posted October 08, 2016 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for leo_moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Progressed pluto is in 9th. I'm at a point where I need to believe in something higher. People and materialism no longer bring a sense of joy or security. Terrifying for an earthly person.

Pluto transiting 12th was not fun. I went through that long transit before I reached adulthood. Had to learn to see through darkness at a young age. Too much awareness too soon.

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Faith
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posted October 09, 2016 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm fortunate (though it always depends on how one looks at things) to live far removed from terrifying situations. I'm shielded and buffered and secure. I don't even allow myself to think about "What if disaster strikes?" if I can help it. Possibly because all the Pluto in my chart comes alive even at the thought, and I don't like the anxious feeling, I hate the feeling of fear.

With transiting Pluto conjunct my sun, I'm wondering if I need to change that, and build up a greater tolerance to fear. Allow myself to engage with fear more directly. Allow myself to come unglued a little more. I literally feel like I am falling apart when I am terrified of something....it's like my energy expands outward like a vase that's been shot and exploding. Must have something to do with my chakras.

But the beauty of that Plutonic feeling is, there is an absolute desperation in it, to make the most of life...and then total gratitude for the people who ease the suffering or at least see it the same way. Nothing is taken for granted, nothing is dull or meaningless.

Anyway, I have 8H moon on the solstice point of Pluto. The orb is only 0.02° if my birth time is correct.

And I just realized something.

I often wake up in the middle of the night, terrified. Not terrified of nightmares. Just of life. I see my life...life in general... with a completely different "filter": I see it through the eyes of fear, regret, instability, and dread.

This is about the complete opposite of my everyday, calm, interior feeling, and the personality that's built upon that.

Just realized that it might have something to do with the fact that I have a Libra IC. And the IC relates to midnight. And I have 3H Libra Pluto. So in those hours that correspond to the middle of the night, I am often awake, living my 3H Pluto with scary thoughts (3H, thinking) and emotionally (because my moon is on Pluto's solstice point.) Maybe that explains it.

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starr33
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posted October 12, 2016 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for starr33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[Just realized that it might have something to do with the fact that I have a Libra IC. And the IC relates to midnight. And I have 3H Libra Pluto. So in those hours that correspond to the middle of the night, I am often awake, living my 3H Pluto with scary thoughts (3H, thinking) and emotionally (because my moon is on Pluto's solstice point.) Maybe that explains it.]


Faith, that is so interesting and thank you for sharing your night terrors with us. I didn't know the IC corresponds to midnight. There's so much about astrology I've yet to learn! I watch a lot of tv. Lol. I blame my 5th house Jupiter in Aquarius.

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Faith
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posted October 12, 2016 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your reply

You got me wanting to explore this more. I realized that Pluto is the first planet the transiting ASC passed over after I was born.

The transiting ASC was conjunct Pluto near midnight, with my sun on the IC. Then at 3 am, the witching hour, the transiting ASC was tightly conjunct my NN in Scorpio.

Hmm, just find that interesting.

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