posted October 29, 2016 03:33 AM            

Julian Assange for example has it, and we know by him releasing stuff via Wikileaks over the years that he has got himself into trouble with governments from several countries. Marilyn Monroe had it as well, and we know that she had problems with U.S government because of her relationship with JFK - possibly she was even bumped off by them. Courtney Love has it too, and despite her talent, she's always been fairly unpopular in the music industry for many reasons (personality; she breaks the stereotype of a demure woman etc.). Then there's Bill Clinton, Joan of Arc, etc.

I have this placement too, and it isn't too badly aspected (apart from Mars Opp Pluto, but this is weak) nevertheless it has caused me problems in groups and organisations before (I took an entire organisation to court for example). I just can't seem to toe the line; and I always end up swimming against the flow.

posted October 29, 2016 08:31 AM            

I get so annoyed on the internet too because it's even more discernible.

So, I suppose I separate myself out as much as am separated,

With the contentions I've had, with a group, it was disagreements with individuals firstly rather than group dynamics but it affected my credibility each individual battle & I questioned myself so the group didn't assert itself so much at first but it came to represent something versus me, later. Though actually there was a kind of Machiavellian rudder to it all that I identified and challenged.

I thought my Pluto might fall into 12th (equal houses) because of all the power battles but this makes me think it is 11th.

My Pluto is opp Mercury too

As to anything positive .. It was exhausting and heartbreaking what I went through - what I can say in retrospect, is that I did change things (rather than stop them - a distinction because I don't think stopping was an option, looking back - like it demanded change) and those people individually are better for it - they changed the structure of their lives and are happier. I also benefited with having whole structures of my life change,p positively and in a way that mattered that continue now.

So I think change is a benefit and it's not just a symptom treated but an illness that's addressed so it can be really big.