posted October 29, 2016 09:48 AM            

Let's say you are dealing with someone who has a troubled natal chart. E.g. Chronic mental illness. would you give them a chance if you see that they are willing to evolve as opposed to not?

posted October 29, 2016 10:24 AM            

I think that I am one of those people.
Things in my chart that I think contribute:

A LOT of mutable energy. A lot... though not entirely mutable.
My Virgo (mutable) mars tightly conjunct my Virgo Asc. Giving drive and action to this change.

My pluto in my first house. To me, this is the house of self and also kind of sets the tone for the rest of the chart. Not that it overpowers it as we often seem to indicate when we talk of pluto. But I think it's important here, in this case.
It gives me not only a willingness, but a desire, almost obsession for personal change, personal growth. The "death" of old ways and old habits and the "rebirth" of those changed habits, or new habits. Not just habits, but just an evolution of self. "What's my next self-growth project? What's holding me back?"
My mind continually asks me that. I can't stress that enough.

Now, some important things are that it's not easy for me. Definitely not easy. It REQUIRES an obsession for it and it takes a LOT of work for me... a lot. It's tiresome sometimes. It's so much work.
It takes a long time, at least for me. Though I've personally witnessed someone who got drunk EVERY - SINGLE - DAY just quit. Just dropped it like it was nothing. That's amazing to me.

I like to think that some members here who I'm close to, even if we don't talk THAT much, such as Faith, Violets, Gabby. I like to think that they've witnessed some of my evolution and witnessed my efforts.

It's always a threat, to me, that I can relapse you might say. Failure is always an option and I do fail.

posted October 29, 2016 10:38 AM            

over a rather long time I dealt with someone who has been suffering from chronic depression and bipolar disorder since his early teen years. he always bounces back though and I have watched him evolve immensely. he's an ex I dated for a few years. I met him when we were both 19 and now after six years, we're good friends. his moods fluctuate a lot and he goes from hysterically happy to extremely depressed in minutes.

posted October 29, 2016 10:41 AM            

Good points.

Jupiter literally makes contact nearly everywhere in my chart, in some way. (Declination also) Only a few outer planets are not hit by it and of course angles. But it does trine my asc.

Pluto also aspects my sun, one is in declination (Parallel)

posted October 29, 2016 10:54 AM            

@ DopGang-- Oh yeah, of course I see that in you! You're very introspective, and I even remember our first interaction on here.

We were both being a bit touchy about something or other, and then one of us made a joke about ourselves and apologized, and the other did the same thing. It was like we both took a minute to say something to the effect of "Oh, crap...I guess I'm guilty of acting like a jerk sometimes, sorry!" And then we ended up laughing about Beavis and Butthead jokes and Uranus.

Anyway...
I'll have to ponder this, because I also dislike becoming complacent in my life, or feeling like I'm stagnating spiritually, emotionally, or psychologically.

My Pisces Sun is in my 8h, conjunct both BML and Pholus as well. Quincunx Pluto.

I have to wonder about Pholus here, but I'll have to look up the actual myth, as opposed to the notion that it simply "explodes" what it touches.

Pluto and 8h do a lot in my chart, and I also have Cap Mars to insist on bettering myself.
I'm not always up to the task, but eventually, if it becomes obvious and readily apparent that change must happen, I will work for it.

posted October 29, 2016 11:22 AM            

I have pluto conjunct saturn. Pluto is my chart ruler and makes a lot of aspects in my chart such as pluto semi-sextile exact my sun, pluto biquintiles my moon and quintiles Chiron forming a golden yod, it parallels mercury-union-juno, it sextiles Venus and Mars, it sextiles Neptune.

I am a Virgo with mercury in Virgo and mercury sextiles exact Scorpio rising and parallels pluto and Juno and union so I have great capacity for insight including in the area of the subconcious and how it affects our feelings, needs and behavior; pluto falls in my 12th.

With Saturn conjunct pluto I am very committed to confront my fears and things that hold me back and I am very brave about pushing my comfort zones even if I am afraid, I suppose mars in leo and Scorpio rising make me brave. I use astrology as a tool to guide me through this journey and I also pay attention a lot to my wise mind and when my body tells me is time for change.

posted October 29, 2016 11:34 AM            

But even people like that can grow and change it just takes more time and comes with a lot more resistance.

posted October 29, 2016 12:25 PM            

I should respond to these things when I'm feeling a bit better.

posted October 29, 2016 12:58 PM            

OP, yeah I believe Pluto influence/8th house --> periodic transformations (that are HUGE), metamorphoses.

posted October 29, 2016 02:42 PM            

I've a very fixed chart .. Sun in Taurus, Scorpio asc (Uranus conj). Sun and asc/Uranus are in a t-square with Mars in Leo at the apex.

Then I've got sag moon conj Neptune and opp Jupiter in cancer (the mutual reception seems to create a sort of contained feedback loop of energy). Or to just describe .. I used to feel that I could adapt to anything, was responsive to others & my environment, that I could shift in a big way. Very idealistic, belief that anything is possible etc

But I've realised that mutability within an otherwise rigid structure doesn't do so well. It's like a wave machine in a swimming baths - feels much grander than it is, life or death, I'll let myself pulled along and swayed by others but each time it reaffirms my fixed traits.

I can superficially change PoV whilst retaining my position on something. Sometimes the battle is to evolve when another part of myself isn't aware. Suppose when I do change its very complete though and I become an advocate like a born-again

Really I have to lose or gain a faith in order to change .. Mainly faith in myself. It's not that graceful. Moon changes inwardly but I can't translate that into concrete change so easily. .. I actually do still believe the chart can be transcended and aspects overcome mostly but just can't figure out how to. Sometimes it's the little unassuming battles that matter and my sag doesn't like that bit.

posted October 29, 2016 04:31 PM            

But I do understand with the willingness to want to grow and evolve possibly at a faster rate is good for the soul, I think by our very core we yern to grow and evolve, some are just more caught up in the illusions of this place and get caught up with negativity, distancing the self from the true self.

posted October 29, 2016 04:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by florence:

Not many conclusions as just thinking it out

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posted October 29, 2016 07:36 PM            

So.....the person I am thinking about and wondering as to whether he has willingness has lib/scorp Pluto/Saturn conjunction opposite sun/mars/Mercury in Aries/Taurus.

What do y'all think??

He suffers from chronic depression but "seems" like he has willingness although it's early stages and I'm still trying to figure it out. He told me this morning he had an epiphany after yoga. He looked up into the sky and saw a butterfly. It was flapping its wings so hard. And he thought well this butterfly is either going to fall out of the sky or fly but either way it is still a gorgeous butterfly.

My ex who I was with for 10 years had Pluto trine sun but he seemed so stuck in the past. So stuck in his depression. It was heavy.

I've got Pluto trine sun/Mercury and I think Jupiter in my 12th really helps keep my faith strong that **** will just work out. I've always had that perspective.

posted October 29, 2016 07:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:

It's something that I'm very passionate about. It's something that I think about EVERY - SINGLE - DAY.

It's like, what point is there to anything else if I don't remain open to evolving myself?

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posted October 29, 2016 11:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
I like to think that some members here who I'm close to, even if we don't talk THAT much, such as Faith, Violets, Gabby. I like to think that they've witnessed some of my evolution and witnessed my efforts.

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posted October 29, 2016 11:16 PM            

It doesn't break my relationships because I tend to be accommodating (Pisces moon).

posted October 29, 2016 11:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by EmGem:
I'd like to think that people in my life have a willingness to evolve. This could be what makes or breaks relationships for me st this point in my life. If someone has the tenacity and determination to grow out of their old habits that no longer serve them, the WILLINGNESS, where is this likely to show in a chart?

Let's say you are dealing with someone who has a troubled natal chart. E.g. Chronic mental illness. would you give them a chance if you see that they are willing to evolve as opposed to not?

Its late. My mind is jumbled sorry 😐

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Mutable?

posted October 30, 2016 12:24 AM            

Right now, I'm going through a tough time mentally, and so it's harder for me to reach this stage of evolution that is destined for me. It's quite the struggle, and each and every day I am struggling to make the right changes and move ahead with myself, going forward into the direction I should be going. The only real obstacle is the choices I make and the ideas that I have. Each step I take will be affected by both, and that, along with who I decide to be, is what determines how willing I am to evolve into a more enlightened being.

posted October 30, 2016 01:04 AM            

Without that, there is no willingness.

posted October 30, 2016 01:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
When I think of the willingness to evolve, I often think that it is a subconscious process that we must consciously go through. What I mean by that is that we must be willing to make a change and "try" to push forward into the positive direction. With each and every step towards our newfound goal we reach a new stage of evolution, and that willingness to do the right thing is in the process of evolving all together.

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posted November 02, 2016 05:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by florence:
[b]
Not many conclusions as just thinking it out

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Thank you

posted November 02, 2016 08:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by EmGem:
If someone has the tenacity and determination to grow out of their old habits that no longer serve them, the WILLINGNESS, where is this likely to show in a chart?

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This is going to sound self-serving but most Capricorns I've known are self-aware and trying to get over their demons. The willingness doesn't always translate to success, but the mountain is there and Cap knows they have to climb and climb.

quote:

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Originally posted by EmGem:
Let's say you are dealing with someone who has a troubled natal chart. E.g. Chronic mental illness. would you give them a chance if you see that they are willing to evolve as opposed to not?

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I don't know what you mean about giving them a chance, guess I would just have to meet them and see if we were a good match and the benefits of the relationship outweighed the drawbacks. Then again I know for me it's possible to get sucked into things, which is why I'm kind of a hermit and avoid people.

Anyway, advantages/disadvantages might be something like...

Cardinal signs: Evolve by equipping themselves to be worthy of the leadership roles they seek, not just claiming authority but demonstrating their abilities and influencing their surroundings that way. Fail to evolve when they confuse past successes for present ones, and rest on their laurels thinking they've got it covered when they don't. (I'm a cardinal sign so there is some self-criticism in this...sorry if anyone feels this is harsh.)

Fixed signs: Evolve by staying committed to certain goals and following through. Stagnate when they stubbornly remain on one course of action despite evidence showing it's time change direction or be more flexible.

Mutable signs: Evolve by being flexible and able to change and adapt to various situations. Fail to evolve when they cannot seem to stick to one thing long enough to develop it fully.

A person most willing to evolve might have a good mix of elements to balance each other out. A person who is willing but unable may have too many squares in their chart AND they have not yet mastered them. Once squares are overcome they can be more positive than trines, I think. You just have to kind of watch the squares to see what stage of development they are in.