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Author Topic:   Is a Retrograde planet stronger when it's conjunct the Ascendant?
Lerena
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posted December 15, 2016 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if I'm speaking complete nonsense, but I'm wondering if a Retrograde planet can be more easily expressed if it's conjunct the Ascendant. What is your opinion?

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yungang_grotto
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posted December 15, 2016 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What have you noticed?

I know that a planet which is just one degree ahead of the ascendant (in the 1st house) expresses entirely differently than one which is one degree behind... That we can easily bring forth the energies of the 1st house, and the ones in the 12th take time to uncover and blossom but then can have great integrity and depth. That's a different matter though.

As for retrograde planets... I think it's safe to say that anything conjunct the ascendant is going to be a keynote of the individual's life, and a major factor in the environments in which they find themselves. Again it depends hugely whether they're ahead or behind the ascendant, and a planet traveling retrograde will have extra momentum backwards through the houses as the chart progresses, so the development would still be particularly internal, the gestation of those planetary energies might be more thorough and could be difficult but ultimately revelatory. . Especially if it's an inner planet and eventually turns direct by progression within the person's lifetime.

As for reading the way that planet is expressing energy, it is always useful to look into their dispositorship, aspects, whether they are dignified, etc. All these things will influence it.

I think the conjunction with the ascendant of a retrograde planet is definitely an important consideration. I haven't observed it enough to be able to say anything conclusive about it. In synastry, when somebody's retrograde planet is conjunct my ascendant, I notice there's a particular emphasis on the challenge of bringing those planetary energies into the conscious awareness of the retrograde planet person, but when it happens it is particularly deep and rewarding for them and for me.

I think the meaning of the retrograde planet will remain essentially the same and be magnified by the conjunction with the ascendant. This could indeed make the energies more forthright. The retrograde planet still expresses itself but in a more internal way which can actually be more integrated, and when the energy manifests outwardly it has always been really thoroughly processed. . For better or worse!


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Lerena
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posted December 15, 2016 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
What have you noticed?

It doesn't seem to be common for a Retrograde planet to conjunct the Ascendant. Additionally, because it's not as common, I have only noticed this in my own chart and I can only base my answer on a subjective experience.

My Pluto is Retrograde, and although it is not as outwardly expressive as it would be if it was direct, I feel like I can use Pluto energy if I decide to. To a certain extent, I feel like I'm better at handling situations associated with Pluto simply because my Pluto is Retrograde and conjunct my Ascendant. Pluto's Retrograde status results in me being more likely to think about how I handle situations involving my Pluto, and as a result, I am less likely to run into severe issues with its energy. If necessary, I am willing to behave as if my Pluto is Direct. Granted, it took me a while to get to this point. Still, it being Retrograde doesn't mean I don't have the ability to bring it outward when a situation calls for it.

Anyway, Pluto isn't Direct by progression in my progressed chart. The only Direct/Retrograde change so far is my Saturn becoming Retrograde by progression.

And speaking of Saturn, I have become a bit more disciplined, which wasn't the case until it went Retrograde by progression. I won't say it was easy, but something about Retrograde energy seems to result in me being able to learn the planet's lessons more easily.

I'm not sure if my subjective opinion is accurate or just unique to me. It just seems like I can channel Pluto's energy into whatever I want. I won't say that I never have any issues with Pluto. All I'm saying is I feel like I can express it externally depending on if I want to or not.

I have Pluto in 12th house, which is supposed to be a difficult placement, but I think I experience some positives with it too.

I'm curious if anyone else experiences a similar feeling with Retrograde planets conjunct their Ascendant or if they've noticed this about someone else.

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yungang_grotto
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posted December 15, 2016 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you know what you're talking about. Of course you can express your Pluto! and have an extra good handle on it even. I don't think retrogradation debilitates a planet at all; it can indeed even make it's energy more potent/accessible for the person who was born during the retrograde. And yeah from what you've said and tapping into the energy of what you're putting out, it seems likely that the conjunction to the ascendant would further purify the Pluto energy... whatever outer planet is conjunct the ascendant is usually operating TURBO in the chart, and manifesting some kind of extreme facets of that energy... depending very much on other factors of course.

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Ami Anne
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posted December 15, 2016 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the word "stronger" is a misnomer. The retro planets recycles, like when you see water in a fountain, the same water keeps going round and round lol
The ASC placement would make people see it and you would feel the effects of the planet strongly, due to the ASC placement, but it will not change the NATURE of the Retro, which is a circular kind of path vs Direct which is direct path/direct, forward expression

I have several articles on Retro planets that explain it better than these few sentences.

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Lerena
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posted December 16, 2016 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The ASC placement would make people see it and you would feel the effects of the planet strongly, due to the ASC placement, but it will not change the NATURE of the Retro, which is a circular kind of path vs Direct which is direct path/direct, forward expression

Thing is, I don't experience Pluto as a circular path. If the situation calls for it, I can express my Pluto in a direct, forward fashion. It's just not always a good idea so I don't default to expressing it directly, but I can do it in situations where it's appropriate.

Most people probably can't tell my Pluto is Retrograde unless I talk about it being in Retrograde or I put up my chart.

To be honest, it's hard to agree with you when it comes to Pluto in Retrograde, mostly because I don't understand what you're talking about when you discuss it. I think the reason for this is that I don't relate to what you say on the subject.

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Ami Anne
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posted December 16, 2016 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does your Pluto make trines to the Sun or other planets, Lerena?

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Lerena
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posted December 16, 2016 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Does your Pluto make trines to the Sun or other planets, Lerena?

The tightest trine that Pluto makes is to my Mars, which I don't count.

"Mars trine Pluto" has an orb of 8 degrees and it's a separating aspect so it isn't closer by progression.

Edit: Although, to be honest, both Pluto and Mars aspect my Ascendant. Pluto makes a conjunction and Mars makes a trine - orb of 2. Does this mean anything? I'm just asking, because I'm reading descriptions of "Mars trine Pluto" and I relate to the things being said about it.

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GrandFireT
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posted December 16, 2016 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GrandFireT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What orb qualifies here as conjunct Asc?

My Mars is retrograde in Aires, seven degrees into the 1st. When experienced practitioners looked at my chart decades ago, they regarded this as conjunct.

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Lerena
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posted December 16, 2016 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GrandFireT:
What orb qualifies here as conjunct Asc?

My Mars is retrograde in Aires, seven degrees into the 1st. When experienced practitioners looked at my chart decades ago, they regarded this as conjunct.


The orb for my Pluto-Ascendant conjunction is 6 degrees.

Some astrologers will accept conjunctions up to 10 degrees, especially when the Ascendant is involved.

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Ami Anne
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posted December 17, 2016 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is the mars making you feel the retro less imo

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