posted June 14, 2017 10:43 PM            

What aspects denote someone who is a liar/cheater/swindler? Also, someone who plays "dirty tricks", that aren't necessarily illegal?

posted June 14, 2017 11:10 PM            

It's different strokes for different folks. Some may not be a 'one woman man' made for conventional relationships of monogamy. It is up to them to know that, or at least those around to pick up on it.

You can tell if someone has a tendency for high confidence, gift of persuasion/salesmanship, people skills, etc (ala David 'Avocado' Wolfe), but such aspects or astrological features do not 'make' them liars, cheaters, or swindlers.

posted June 14, 2017 11:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
No such thing. The astrology of our birth charts does not sabotage our character before we have a chance to develop it. It does not pre-destin anyone to this. That is called [b]determinism and if it can be flushed from protestantism (Calvanism) many years ago, then it can be flushed from astrology.

It's different strokes for different folks. Some may not be a 'one woman man' made for conventional relationships of monogamy. It is up to them to know that, or at least those around to pick up on it.

You can tell if someone has a tendency for high confidence, gift of persuasion/salesmanship, people skills, etc (ala David 'Avocado' Wolfe), but such aspects or astrological features do not 'make' them liars, cheaters, or swindlers.

[/B]

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Thanks for the reply!

As a Determinist, I can tell you that Determinism isn't about being destined to do something. That philosophy is called "Fatalism." Determinism simply means that you believe that choice is influenced by factors outside the will of the individual. For example, how brain states and genetics can impact the types of thoughts and emotions an individual receives, which impacts their choices. While, Free Will claims that a person makes decisions "free of influence." Fatalism is very similar, but a Determinist is not automatically a Fatalist. It might seem that way, since a Determinist would argue similar things. However, in Determinism there is room for choice, just not "Free Choice" or "Free Will."

Anyways, the question was pertaining more towards the "likelihood" of someone being a liar/cheater/swindler (or alternatively, "correlating with those who are..."). Which aspects (if any), would put someone at risk for doing those things?

Is that a clearer way of wording that? Also, do you still disagree that it's possible?

posted June 15, 2017 07:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

It's different strokes for different folks. Some may not be a 'one woman man' made for conventional relationships of monogamy. It is up to them to know that, or at least those around to pick up on it.

You can tell if someone has a tendency for high confidence, gift of persuasion/salesmanship, people skills, etc (ala David 'Avocado' Wolfe), but such aspects or astrological features do not 'make' them liars, cheaters, or swindlers.

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posted June 15, 2017 08:00 AM            

1. talent for lying: look at mercury sign, ruler aspects, 3rd house. there are many ways of defining lying, but lets say that some people are more "flexible" in their approach of comunicating. mercury in aries you would expect someone very straighforward. but this mercury in aries square or even trine neptune and you have something totally different. you will have someone with the talent to mislead and put a veil of misterious in what they say and how they perceive reality. now, that mercury in piscis conjunct uranus-mars... you beat that this person need to kill the bullsh.. ouf of the communication. they even shake you up just for the sake of testing your reaction. planets contact are more important than the sign mercury is. rulers aspects are also important. immagine mercury in scorpio and mars/pluto (rulers of scorpio) aflicted by neptune or jupiter... neptune is 3rd gives a talent as well

2. talent for cheating, that is beyond lying. this means able to act (mars) in a certain way that goes against the moral/beliefs/principles (jupiter) or the society rules (saturn). here look at mars, jupiter and saturn sign, rulers and aspects. which planets are deposited by these planets
mars oppose/square jupiter suggest a conflict between the need to act and the moral principles. depending which planet is stronger in the chart, you may have jupiter or mars win, or a back and forth between morals and the will. when saturn is strong or aspect mars it put a brake on mars will and tend to instill fear of being caught or also the fear of going against societal rules. in the case of saturn, if the person lives in a society where for a man is ok to have more than one woman (even it unsaid rule), then saturn will have little weight and perhaps only the fear of being caught can prevent that mars. look for the rulers of these planets and what they are doing in the chart.

mars-neptune is also important here. i have seen in misleading, and the typical good guy who end up with the surprising news of leaving you after he realized he is in love with someone else (hiding the fact that he was 6 months dating her). this aspect per se is not to be blame, but these people do not like to upset the apple cart and in trying to go with the flow (not asserting themselves as they are, but in the way they think they please you) they fail to be honest. normally intentions are not bad, but these people suffer of conflict between the need to assert and the need to be part of. they will do what they want with total honesty only if they feel 100% accepted. that means if they have an inclination for non standard relationships, they will try to pursue their needs without trying to hurt anybody, but at the end they hurt all with the misleading jerky way.

3. culture/peers/education level and other environmental factors
saturnian people will not cheat (on most cases) in situations where cheating is culturally penalized even if they had the inclination for polyamorous relationships.
jupiter moral values are framed by the culture/religious influences. so cheating may be a strong value in one culture and not so in other. well aspected jupiter may not deter cheating if that is not part of the moral value system. so it depends on the value, which in turn are societal framed.

posted June 15, 2017 10:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by nordicsoul:
disclaimer.. i never check grammar or spelling and English is not my first language... thanks for understanding!

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posted June 15, 2017 10:18 AM            

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posted June 15, 2017 10:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Bilk conj the Sun.

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I'd never heard of that asteroid, but I just read a little on it.
Bilk is prominent in the charts of con men, people who commit fraud, take advantage of others, ect.

Interesting...

posted June 15, 2017 09:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by nordicsoul:
for a person to lie/cheat it must be a combination of personal and environmental/cultural factors in interaction. you may have a person with same chart living in a different cultural environment and behave totally different. I agree with kannon about tendencies for non-traditional one-to-one relationships, or talents for "selling" etc. these are not per se sigs that people will cheat or lie, but with the right combination of factors, the probability is higher.. here some factors

1. talent for lying: look at mercury sign, ruler aspects, 3rd house. there are many ways of defining lying, but lets say that some people are more "flexible" in their approach of comunicating. mercury in aries you would expect someone very straighforward. but this mercury in aries square or even trine neptune and you have something totally different. you will have someone with the talent to mislead and put a veil of misterious in what they say and how they perceive reality. now, that mercury in piscis conjunct uranus-mars... you beat that this person need to kill the bullsh.. ouf of the communication. they even shake you up just for the sake of testing your reaction. planets contact are more important than the sign mercury is. rulers aspects are also important. immagine mercury in scorpio and mars/pluto (rulers of scorpio) aflicted by neptune or jupiter... neptune is 3rd gives a talent as well

2. talent for cheating, that is beyond lying. this means able to act (mars) in a certain way that goes against the moral/beliefs/principles (jupiter) or the society rules (saturn). here look at mars, jupiter and saturn sign, rulers and aspects. which planets are deposited by these planets
mars oppose/square jupiter suggest a conflict between the need to act and the moral principles. depending which planet is stronger in the chart, you may have jupiter or mars win, or a back and forth between morals and the will. when saturn is strong or aspect mars it put a brake on mars will and tend to instill fear of being caught or also the fear of going against societal rules. in the case of saturn, if the person lives in a society where for a man is ok to have more than one woman (even it unsaid rule), then saturn will have little weight and perhaps only the fear of being caught can prevent that mars. look for the rulers of these planets and what they are doing in the chart.

mars-neptune is also important here. i have seen in misleading, and the typical good guy who end up with the surprising news of leaving you after he realized he is in love with someone else (hiding the fact that he was 6 months dating her). this aspect per se is not to be blame, but these people do not like to upset the apple cart and in trying to go with the flow (not asserting themselves as they are, but in the way they think they please you) they fail to be honest. normally intentions are not bad, but these people suffer of conflict between the need to assert and the need to be part of. they will do what they want with total honesty only if they feel 100% accepted. that means if they have an inclination for non standard relationships, they will try to pursue their needs without trying to hurt anybody, but at the end they hurt all with the misleading jerky way.

3. culture/peers/education level and other environmental factors
saturnian people will not cheat (on most cases) in situations where cheating is culturally penalized even if they had the inclination for polyamorous relationships.
jupiter moral values are framed by the culture/religious influences. so cheating may be a strong value in one culture and not so in other. well aspected jupiter may not deter cheating if that is not part of the moral value system. so it depends on the value, which in turn are societal framed.

4. individual are unpredictable. factor X is always present. you have all the aflictions, all the cuture supporting and you have an honest person unable to cheat or lie... it is not so easy as to look for "factors". at the end of the day we are not machines and are so complex to predict with certainty. i shy away of anticipating behaviours based on the chart, but if i suspect my man is cheating and I see a mars-neptune square, well...

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Thank you for your very thorough reply!!

To give some context, in this situation, there has been a horrible act committed. However, it is unknown who exactly did it. I'm looking at the charts of 5 people, without birth times (sadly).

One of them is unlikely to have committed the act, due to both personal and Astrological reasons.

Another has Saturn conjunct the South Node, which is potentially alarming, because the situation involves authority. I'm not the type of person to view Saturn or the South Node negative, like quite a few people do. However, Saturn conjunct the South Node shows that the person needs to more away from Saturn-like characteristics, which could maybe show that the person strives for authority too much. Yet, the rest of the chart is pretty good, including Mercury. Mercury is fairly strong, and in Aries.

Another person has Mercury conjunct Neptune, in Sagittarius. Both square his North Node. He has Neptune square Saturn also.

One of them seems to be pretty fine. Only a square from Mercury to the North Node. Nothing else.

The last chart seems very alarming, especially because the person is an unexpected suspect (which matches the Astrology, actually). Their Sun, Venus, Mercury, and Neptune are in Scorpio. Venus, Mercury, and Neptune are conjunct. All of them square his Mars in Leo. Saturn is also conjunct the South Node. Jupiter opposes Uranus, which could maybe show ethical or philosophical values suddenly being changed/compromised.

I was reading about the above aspects last night. I can't remember which one it was, but one of them really shocked me. It mentioned how the person eventually is discovered by people as being untrustworthy, even though they seem very gentle on the outside.

All in all, awful situation. In this case, there is no hope for finding out who truly did it, based on logic or inquiry alone. However, Astrology could help me find the answer, and help me be more skeptical towards the person in the future.

posted June 15, 2017 09:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Snow Dragon:
Mercury in Pisces is something I noticed people have when they lie a lot.. especially when it is afflicted by other planets.

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posted June 16, 2017 04:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Snow Dragon:
Mercury in Pisces is something I noticed people have when they lie a lot.. especially when it is afflicted by other planets.

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posted June 16, 2017 04:36 AM            

I find it hard to identify the perpetrator using the charts, specially without TOB, but we could look at the suspects astrological placements and theorize.

if you feel like it, post the 5 charts and we can look at it and maybe to score them in terms of more likelyhood based on the suspect aspects.

you mention southnode-saturn aspect as a suspect. I have never heard of it (not that I have studied this matter at all) just curious if you could link to post or articles where you have found it.

if you could list the aspects you think are important, i could look at charts of people i know to test for them in their charts.

posted June 16, 2017 05:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Bilk conj the Sun.

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