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Author Topic:   Anti-Vertex vs. Vertex?
capricorncheriscty
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posted September 27, 2018 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, I read that the Vertex is like 2nd the Descendant and the Anti-Vertex is like the 2nd Ascendant. They call the Vertex the "counter ascendant" for this reason and the descriptions for it are often talking about interrelations rather than matters of the self.

Therefore, wouldn't the Anti-Vertex be more important? While I'm aware interrelations are important to our development, development all starts within us and us alone so would the anti-vertex not be more important? Often, when I see astrologers using it in synastry or transits, they are noting the opposition is present, meaning that the planet in question is actually conjunct the anti-vertex! So what is the point of having the vertex the main used in interpretations? Why not the other.

Astrotheme's interpretation of the Vertex:

"The Vertex, sometimes called counter-Ascendant, is a fictitious point which is at the intersection of two great circles, the Ecliptic and the great vertical circle (Prime Vertical) in the West of the birthplace, linking the East, the Zenith, the West, and the Nadir. It is always located in the West of the chart around the Descendant.

It is the chart's fifth angle, so to speak, less important than the other angles. Its interpretation is controversial, because certain astrologers pay no attention to it.

The Vertex is sometimes considered to be the second Descendant because, like the latter, it is related to communication and exchanges.

It has to do with associations and fated encounters, those that are not chosen, and reveals the type of sensitivity and reactivity we have in our dealings with other people: a refined and tolerant way in Libra, straightforward and spontaneous in Aries, etc."

Cafeastrology:

"The Vertex is a point located in the western hemisphere of a chart (the right-hand side) that represents the intersection of the ecliptic and the prime vertical. In astrology, it is considered an auxiliary Descendant.

The Anti-Vertex is the point that is exactly opposite the Vertex. Some astrologers refer to the Vertex as the “third angle” of a chart."

TheAstroCodex:

"The Vertex is a mathematical point in the chart of the native, always located at the right-hand side of his chart. It is the intersection of the ecliptic and the prime vertical, and astrologers tend to argue whether it is very important or not at all.

The exact opposite point is called anti-vertex, but most astrology researchers tend to not pay attention to it. As an astrological point, it is connected with karma and fate, and it functions when triggered by planet transits.

The transiting aspect that is mostly to be observed is the conjunction, and slow moving planets are the ones that will mainly influence the native’s life. The Vertex is also widely used in synastry charts, as it is responsible for major changes, especially in relationships, births, and deaths of people – while also in important business partnership beginnings or endings.

This can be easily explained by the fact that the Vertex is always located somewhere between the 5th and the 8th house, which are responsible for such kind of issues."


Cafeastrology also says it is our destiny's gate and wish fulfillment point, but I don't see how a gate that depends on interrelations could be where my wishful destiny lies. Would it not be that our answers and paths to our wishful destinies lie within ourselves, or the Anti-Vertex? If that makes sense to anyone lol I hope.

Also, by TheAstroCodex's definition, this would mean the anti-vertex is almost always in between the 11th and 2nd houses, all of those houses which are far more important in our karmic fulfillment and the universe materializing spiritual wishes being fulfilled and given to us through our walks through life.

What do you think?

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Selenite
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posted September 27, 2018 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selenite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you have a point, but since the Vertex has to do with 'fate,' it is more circumstantial (being determined by the other angles), so putting more emphasis on the anti-vertex makes less sense since we can not 'self actualize' in this area the way we can with our ascendant or midheaven. Situations or people are just 'given to us' with the Vertex so the opposite of that would have to be personality traits or something ascendant-related that just appears out of nowhere with a certain transit or activated by synastry.

However, all of astrology is based on circumstances beyond our control anyway so it's a grey area. I think there's a consensus that the Vertex is generally misunderstood. Idk, anything that has to do with 'fate' is a tricky subject for me.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted September 28, 2018 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't think of it like that Selenite! You're right, it would make more sense in that way. I guess it wouldn't make sense to just actualize new, life-changing personality traits but maybe it is possible? I wonder. I do think the anti-vertex is more important than people give it credit for though. Because, at the end of the day, once we do meet these fated encounters (vertex) it is up to us to take on the opportunities from those encounters to grow in our path to enlightenment towards our fated destiny (anti-vertex).

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pire
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posted September 28, 2018 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The vertex is something I am trying to understand, and so far I have the impression that the anti vertex is a "cause" while the vertex is a "consequence"

As if we are rooted in the antivertex to the point where other /life/ fate ask us to experience anti vertex

Something like that

A sort of north and south node but to do with our spiritual development, a vertical development of the self

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capricorncheriscty
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posted September 28, 2018 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pire:

As if we are rooted in the antivertex to the point where other /life/ fate ask us to experience anti vertex


Could you elaborate this part? I am interested to hear what you mean by this.

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pire
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posted September 28, 2018 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry I meant :

As if we are rooted in the antivertex to the point where other /life/ fate ask us to experience vertex

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capricorncheriscty
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posted September 28, 2018 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, in that case I am not sure I can relate. I personally do not think my anti-vertex is something I need to move from, rather something I must go to and achieve in this life time. I feel like I am too rooted in the fatedness (often negative fates at that) of my Vertex and need to get closer to the antivertex of fatedness and wishes fulfilled. To be my fated personality (antivertex) rather than the fated me in relationships (vertex). Granted, My Anti-vertex is Taurus and my North Node is in the 2nd house. So maybe that is just me? I don't feel this "cause" vs "consequence" affect, in fact it is the other way around for me. What about you? What is your vertex in and do you feel this "cause" vs. "consequence" thing?

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Ami Anne
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posted September 28, 2018 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are not like the ASC. They are fate points.That which conj the vertex, the world brings to you. That which conj the AV, you bring to the world


I have many articles on the vertex and antivertex and also, how they work in synastry, as well as in the natal chart.

Here is a basic one
http://mychristianpsychic.com/journal/the-vertex-anti-vertex-and-fate/
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Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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pire
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posted September 29, 2018 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding of the vertex is not relying on what I read. Talking fate because every one use that word without giving more sources than a few that keep citing the same sourvces over and over.

I " TRY " to understand it (not sure I do) through interaction i have with people I know. So to a certain extent I take into account the view that the vertex has to do with other people you could say.

Vertex mean turning, or has something to do with TURN in latin.

In mythology, vertumnus was a god that personified seasonal change and changed himself to seduce pomona

From personal experience, a man who changed my views on relationship had his juno conjunct my vertex, his impact on my was deeper than change my views on relationship, and I think the reverse was true too. I still try to understand how this conjunction played out...

Another man who plays a great role in my life has his sun conjunct my anti vertex and his moon conjunct my vertex...

My aunt has her south and north node respectively on my antivertex and vertex.

I try to grasp the meaning of the vertex from real life experiences. It may Still be very far from clear explanation, and definitely not something that I can write many article about, like the previous poster.

I wish I was more enlightened like her.

The vertex is really something I want to understand, And so far I tend to think that it has something to do with vertical wisdom, and I have the impression that the antivertex is more of our natural response while the vertex is sort of proposed to us, asked of us. Not that one has to replace the other, just one is more natural / intuitive...

That my contribution so far

Take care

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Somna7H
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posted September 29, 2018 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Somna7H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When ever any planet transit over Vertex at least something happens. But never found any for Anti-Vertex yet.
Soon Rx Venus will transit over my Vertex(25° Libra 6th). There must be any event related to work life/job ?

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My Chart :
http://imgur.com/hCRDawD

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capricorncheriscty
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posted September 29, 2018 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had Jupiter in Scorpio conjunct my Vertex in Scorpio from the 5th house and then the 6th house but nothing noticeable happened related to either houses or the sign. Uranus in Taurus will soon conjunct my anti-vertex though and I get the feeling something life-changing will happen.

Back when Saturn was in Scorpio, years ago, I also do not recall anything in particular happening when that planet had a conjunct to my Vertex. I just wonder how important this vertex really is. Nothing fated or new happened in my interrelations, from what I remember.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted September 29, 2018 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And now that I think about it, just yesterday and the day before, the transit Moon in Taurus was conjunct my Vertex and there was definitely something drastic that changed in my life. It affected me personally and my interrelations (as it was opposing my Vertex). Basically, a big blow up and lots of dramatic confrontations and some resolutions...Something drastic always seems to happen to me when the transit Moon goes into Taurus, but this time it was heightened for some reason. Maybe because tr Mercury was also square my Sun and Mercury. Hm? Don't know.

And I am not saying the Vertex isn't important, I just think people aren't giving enough credit to the importance of the anti-vertex in that axis. It seems like it works just as well as the vertex conjunctions do for some.

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Somna7H
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posted September 29, 2018 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Somna7H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
I had Jupiter in Scorpio conjunct my Vertex in Scorpio from the 5th house and then the 6th house but nothing noticeable happened related to either houses or the sign. Uranus in Taurus will soon conjunct my anti-vertex though and I get the feeling something life-changing will happen.

Back when Saturn was in Scorpio, years ago, I also do not recall anything in particular happening when that planet had a conjunct to my Vertex. I just wonder how important this vertex really is. Nothing fated or new happened in my interrelations, from what I remember.


My Vertex Conjunct Jupiter too.
6 Deg Orb.
Jupiter in Scorpio and Vertex in Libra.
Recently full moon happened in aries but nothing happened. If Anti-Vertex Opposite of Vertex then mine in 25° in Aries 12th House

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My Chart :
http://imgur.com/hCRDawD

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ReachingForTheStars
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posted September 30, 2018 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReachingForTheStars     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
So, I read that the Vertex is like 2nd the Descendant and the Anti-Vertex is like the 2nd Ascendant. They call the Vertex the "counter ascendant" for this reason and the descriptions for it are often talking about interrelations rather than matters of the self.

Therefore, wouldn't the Anti-Vertex be more important? While I'm aware interrelations are important to our development, development all starts within us and us alone so would the anti-vertex not be more important? Often, when I see astrologers using it in synastry or transits, they are noting the opposition is present, meaning that the planet in question is actually conjunct the anti-vertex! So what is the point of having the vertex the main used in interpretations? Why not the other.

What do you think?


The best explanation I’ve found to your question likens the vertex axis to the nodes. SN = Antivertex and thus the point we’ve developed, experienced and need to give less attention to in order to develop the Vertex qualities.

Here it is (Donna Henson):

THE VERTEX: WHAT YOU'RE FATED TO DEVELOP

The Vertex works somewhat like the Moon's Nodes since the Vertex and its opposite point, the AntiVertex is also an axis. We say we have already developed the qualities of the South Node and we get out greatest growth from the North Node. Likewise, we have well-developed qualities of the AntiVertex, and we need to bring forth the qualities of the Vertex.

How aspects to the Anti-Vertex work

Conjunctions to the Vertex are oppositions to the Anti-Vertex. This shows the need to balance and use what you already know with what you are developing by using what both signs signify.

Sextiles to the Vertex are Trines to the Anti-Vertex. While you have the opportunity to develop the qualities of the Vertex, it is easier for you to express those of the Anti-Vertex. If you allow this, it could hold back your efforts to express the Vertex sign. Used constructively, it's a highly harmonious aspect.

Squares to the Vertex are also squares to the Anti-Vertex, so you have impediments in developing the things signified by the Vertex sign and from using the innate talents of the Anti-Vertex. This is the most challenging aspect of all.

Trines to the Vertex are the easiest and usually most favorable aspects. They are also sextiles to the Anti-Vertex, so you have both the ease and opportunity to develop what these signs signify.

Oppositions to the Vertex are conjunctions to the Anti-Vertex. Here you have the strong well-developed talents of the Anti-Vertex, which may overshadow your development of the Vertex sign. Neglecting one over the other is not the best use of this. You may meet opposition from someone else when your fated events occur, or you may take the easier path of the Anti-Vertex.

Quincunxes to the Vertex are also semi-sextiles to the Anit-Vertex. While you're fated to develop the sign of the Vertex, help from your Anti-Vertex is just beginning to develop giving you little help from previous development. This results in minor irritations that could eventually develop into big problems such as health or financial concerns. To handle this you have to adjust to the differences of the two signs.

Lynn Koiner somewhat supports this theory

The Vertex is almost always found on the right or occidental side of the horoscope. The exception occurs in extreme northern latitudes. The occidental side of the horoscope is co-dependent and other-directed so that the Vertex represents characteristics, attributes, qualities and skills to be cultivated in this lifetime through the demand and urging of other people. For those interested in esoteric astrology, my theory is that the Vertex indicates the Ray energy to be cultivated in this lifetime – a shift in the personality, astral or mental body.
http://www.lynnkoiner.com/astrology-articles/the-vertex-in-the-natal-chart

Another good explanation is from Alice Portman. She calls it “the electric axis”. She says:

The Vertex axis is the Electrical Axis of the chart. The Ascendant-Descendant is the Magnetic axis. The MC-IC is the gravity axis.

The Vertex axis functions as an angle, just like the Ascendant and the MC

Each Angle axis has a specific purpose.

The Ascendant axis describes the physical body and brain and the environment in which a child is reared. A child does not see herself or himself as an individual, but as a part of a family and the environment.

As this child grows into an adult, s/he develops a sense of self as an individual, and eventually moves into the world to “make a mark”. This process is described by the Midheaven axis, and in our cultures this process is mainly experienced through a career or avocation.

The Vertex axis stimulates Cosmic Awareness, an understanding that an individual is an integral part of the Universe, not just an isolated, separate entity.

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ReachingForTheStars
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posted September 30, 2018 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReachingForTheStars     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Granted, My Anti-vertex is Taurus and my North Node is in the 2nd house. So maybe that is just me? I don't feel this "cause" vs "consequence" affect, in fact it is the other way around for me. What about you? What is your vertex in and do you feel this "cause" vs. "consequence" thing?

I have the same placements. The upcoming Taurus full moon will conjunct my Antivertex along with the current Uranus transit. Sometimes, It’s only in hindsight that I’m able to fully understand what was going on in my life. This can take years. Lol. Even then, I’m not sure if I have an objective view of events or If my perceptions are colored by my understanding of astrology. Confirmation bias? Sometimes, it’s hard for me to separate one aspect from another! My vertex is at the end of my 5th house in a 3-degree conjunction to Jupiter (my DC ruler). It’s my only planet in water. How do I separate romance and ideals and intensity from the fated quality of the vertex. My husband’s and son’s venuses conjunct my vertex. My husband annoys me. 🤣 It feels like torture not fate. Idk!!! 🤔

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Somna7H
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posted October 01, 2018 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Somna7H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soon(near 17th/18th Oct 18) Transiting Sun will Conjunct my natal Vertex.
Should I expect to meet person with power/authority ?

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My Chart :
http://imgur.com/hCRDawD

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