posted October 23, 2018 06:25 PM            

I prefer the analogy of body structure. The Asc/1st house is where the persona takes on the structure of biology. Then that becomes the medium through which self-expression takes place. There is still pretty wide latitude in how one can express themselves within one rising sign mode and even through the accompanying set of aspects by Asc to plaents.

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"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts

posted October 24, 2018 02:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I constantly see people downplaying the Asc and its influence on a chart. Often they call it just a mask, a superficial layer that someone just throws on when you first meet them. I've even seen people who have called the Asc fake and that you are a fake version of wherever the Asc is placed in the chart.

I disagree. Your thoughts?

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disagree too.

The ascendant ruler is the owner of the chart.

I'm more into Vedic so I would give my thoughts with respect to that.

whenever I examine a natal chart, the first thing I see is how strong or how afflicted the ascendant ruler is. The ascendant ruler is not a mask, it is not just a planet that rules how people sees you. It is you, it is the owner of the chart, it is the one planet in a chart that's never inimical to the native, regardless of the nature of the planet.

posted October 24, 2018 07:18 AM            

So the mask thing, is a very sloppy way to put it.

We have to go to the root case of this question circulating this much.

The reason some get confused is:
Thats how 1th house is explained! And some newer people to astrology then intepretent is unimportant? Must be.
1 house is explained as how we present us to new situations and people.

No astrologer ever says Asc is only the mask though, so I think its just a misinterpretation by newer people to astrology thats all^^

posted October 24, 2018 05:15 PM            

I think of the Asc as your default mode. As the thought behind the thought behind the thought. The first thought really: unblemished and ungarnished.

Aries rising: be yourself unapologetically and let none get in the way of that. Face forward and don't look back.

Taurus rising: maintain inner peace in a changing world. Don't be swept off in outer "chaos" at the cost of inner stability.

Gemini rising: there is meaning and beauty in expressing your thoughts. Pay attention to your choice of words: you can create worlds with them for you to explore and delight in

Cancer rising: a sense of community and belonging cures all worries. Create a sanctuary anywhere because you can.

Leo rising: the inner child and playing reminds us of why we live. Learn to play and play to learn. It is the only way.

Virgo rising:sensitivity to a purpose driven life is what its all about. All of life has purpose for being. Even when you don't initially "see" it.

posted October 25, 2018 08:32 AM            

That sounds like "downtime". Not unusual at all.

I read you have Moon in Sag in another post. Probably that would have your Moon be in the 7th house?

7th house Moon/Sun ,Libra Sun/Moon,7th house stellium people need time away to regroup and refocus

Just like Neptune strong types, their "people accommodating" natures can have them be exhausted in assimilating and attending to others 24/7.

I have Venus/Saturn/Pluto in 7th,Mars conj Dsc, Neptune/Sun/Jupiter triple conjunction. I need a lot of peace and quiet when I get home.

If I marry ,my partner MUST appreciate the same. No constant visitors or neighbours just dropping by unannounced to say "hi". Nada!!!

posted October 25, 2018 09:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
@ameliamei

That sounds like "downtime". Not unusual at all.

I read you have Moon in Sag in another post. Probably that would have your Moon be in the 7th house?

7th house Moon/Sun ,Libra Sun/Moon,7th house stellium people need time away to regroup and refocus

Just like Neptune strong types, their "people accommodating" natures can have them be exhausted in assimilating and attending to others 24/7.

I have Venus/Saturn/Pluto in 7th,Mars conj Dsc, Neptune/Sun/Jupiter triple conjunction. I need a lot of peace and quiet when I get home.

If I marry ,my partner MUST appreciate the same. No constant visitors or neighbours just dropping by unannounced to say "hi". Nada!!!

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Agreed. My dad has Moon and Neptune in Sag in the 7th and this is him. He complains about people always wanting to talk his ear off but I always notice that he basically eggs it on because he gets overly social and wordy. He comes across as more sociable than he realizes in himself.

posted October 25, 2018 09:54 AM            

Though I must also add that to most people,the 7th house Moon/Sun/Stellium individual is so nice.

The reason that is so is because it is the 7th house person who will assimilate themselves (just like Venus/ Neptune strong people) to accommodate others.

How wonderful it is for another to bend over backwards to accommodate and listen to you(Venus strong people often have lower back related ailments). Such an individual would be thought of as "nice" by anyone.

But what Venus/7th house individuals are also looking for is reciprocity. In that if there is none, they will avoid those "demanding" people.

The reason you think your Dad's "egging" others on(which he probably is), is that he may initially believe that they will return the gesture in kind.

When they don't however, your Dad may end up feeling exhausted by people. In his mind, they "take,take,take" without end. But the irony is that even with his avoidance of people, they will seek him out wherever he is to "take" some more.

posted October 25, 2018 09:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
@ameliamei

That sounds like "downtime". Not unusual at all.

I read you have Moon in Sag in another post. Probably that would have your Moon be in the 7th house?

7th house Moon/Sun ,Libra Sun/Moon,7th house stellium people need time away to regroup and refocus

Just like Neptune strong types, their "people accommodating" natures can have them be exhausted in assimilating and attending to others 24/7.

I have Venus/Saturn/Pluto in 7th,Mars conj Dsc, Neptune/Sun/Jupiter triple conjunction. I need a lot of peace and quiet when I get home.

If I marry ,my partner MUST appreciate the same. No constant visitors or neighbours just dropping by unannounced to say "hi". Nada!!!

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posted October 25, 2018 10:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
Agreed. My dad has Moon and Neptune in Sag in the 7th and this is him. He complains about people always wanting to talk his ear off but I always notice that he basically eggs it on because he gets overly social and wordy. He comes across as more sociable than he realizes in himself.

Part of me believes that it is also a lack of self-awareness though.

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Yap its the same with my friend who has 7th house sun, mercury and venus. He "eggs on " people! Now when I have gotten to know him well, I know he often does not give a damn when it comes to some of our friends!

He just can't help being super charming and genuine with "And then what happened?" " Oh yeah thats great, how interesting, and then what?" etc etc.

We have a compulsive talker friend (seriously, he has ocd for reals!), and this 7th house guy will egg him on. And then complain later, very low key "yeah, he had a lot to say, even when I looked uninterested". I was like "Hello!? You egg him on then complain?"

posted October 25, 2018 10:58 AM            

never seen anyone point that out before

i have an aries moon/north node conjunct my descendant (pisces all in revati, for vedic) opposite a libra venus conjunct my ascendant (in vedic it's virgo hasta venus and chitra ascendant and ketu) that's part of a kite with mercury and uranus (and a t-square with venus and mars ... if you throw in chiron im pretty sure the mystic rectangle in my chart hits both my moon and venus too)

and i can talk to someone all day every day and hate them

they'll probably know i don't like them, but ive never seen why that matters when you have a conversation and sometimes im just bored or can feel that people want to just talk so i let them because it doesnt make much difference to me if im there anyway and they want to

doesnt mean i dont pay attention to the quality of the conversations i have just because i have them

i dont feel very good about just shutting other people down or ignoring them, so i wont

edit:

as for the other stuff i'd argue ascendant and moon were more important than sun since theyre more personal and offset the expression of things so much

the ascendant doesnt just show you how the world sees a person it sets the way their life plays out

posted October 25, 2018 04:15 PM            

Anyway, that being said, the ASC is like several different masks. The planets are the true essence. The ASC colors those essences with little masks. We can all have a Sun in Leo, but the Taurus ASC puts a little 4th house mask over that Sun in Leo. We can all have a Sagittarius Moon, but the Taurus ASC puts a little 8th house mask over it.

posted October 25, 2018 09:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
^^^true.

Though I must also add that to most people,the 7th house Moon/Sun/Stellium individual is so nice.

The reason that is so is because it is the 7th house person who will assimilate themselves (just like Venus/ Neptune strong people) to accommodate others.

How wonderful it is for another to bend over backwards to accommodate and listen to you(Venus strong people often have lower back related ailments). Such an individual would be thought of as "nice" by anyone.

But what Venus/7th house individuals are also looking for is reciprocity. In that if there is none, they will avoid those "demanding" people.

The reason you think your Dad's "egging" others on(which he probably is), is that he may initially believe that they will return the gesture in kind.

When they don't however, your Dad may end up feeling exhausted by people. In his mind, they "take,take,take" without end. But the irony is that even with his avoidance of people, they will seek him out wherever he is to "take" some more.

Its exasperating

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That's funny because my dad has an exact Venus-Neptune square. He also has Mercury conjunct Venus also squaring Neptune.

posted October 25, 2018 09:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Melinn:
Yap its the same with my friend who has 7th house sun, mercury and venus. He "eggs on " people! Now when I have gotten to know him well, I know he often does not give a damn when it comes to some of our friends!

He just can't help being super charming and genuine with "And then what happened?" " Oh yeah thats great, how interesting, and then what?" etc etc.

We have a compulsive talker friend (seriously, he has ocd for reals!), and this 7th house guy will egg him on. And then complain later, very low key "yeah, he had a lot to say, even when I looked uninterested". I was like "Hello!? You egg him on then complain?"

And he does it so well, I don't think he is aware how genuine and caring he sounds when he is on full libra mood. Only I can see through him.

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LOL that's exactly how my dad is. He'll go out and about talking to strangers and having conversations with them and laughing with them, but then he'll turn around and be like, "I just want to be left alone, why does everyone want to talk with me?!"

posted October 25, 2018 09:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
It is definitely a mask. If it wasn't, then it would be a planet, but it's not. Planets and their placements are our true essence. Planets are not masks, we are always our planets, because they radiate energy within us in varying chunks. The ASC is not a physical body in space, it's just a point so it allows us the power to radiate from outside of it, rather than from within it. The ASC is the mask we wear to help shape those essences. We cannot have one without the other. The planets need sign and house placements to shape our true essence, the ASC provides those placements. We are not always our ASC, because the ASC is just like a stepping stone.

Anyway, that being said, the ASC is like several different masks. The planets are the true essence. The ASC colors those essences with little masks. We can all have a Sun in Leo, but the Taurus ASC puts a little 4th house mask over that Sun in Leo. We can all have a Sagittarius Moon, but the Taurus ASC puts a little 8th house mask over it.

If that makes sense.

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts but I have to disagree with the ASC being a mask. In my experience in studying astrology, the ASC is always present in someone regardless of the circumstances. My conclusion of it is a hubris in which the personal planets express themselves; I have never seen the ASC just disappear when getting to know someone, ever.

posted October 25, 2018 10:39 PM            

You have to imagine it like this: The planet is the little kid running around. The ASC and the house placements it gives are the houses containing the child, keeping it from running into the street and other people's home. Hence someone with Sun in Leo (little kid running around) and Taurus ASC having the Sun in 4th house (the house embodying that child running around).

The energy (planet) is always there but that house is just a mask to guide and protect the energy from going wild in all areas of life. The energy must be focused and that is what the ASC is for, to help our planets find focus. We always have the planetary energies roaming in us but the ASC is something that is just there to help cloak those energies and put them to a more focused use. Thus, our ASC is always there, but we are not always our ASC. Just when it's useful and convenient to our planetary energies.

posted October 26, 2018 12:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
we do not ALWAYS wear it,

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posted October 26, 2018 06:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i have a 7th house moon and do that, whether or not i care i'll keep engaging someone in conversation just for the sake of it

never seen anyone point that out before

i have an aries moon/north node conjunct my descendant (pisces all in revati, for vedic) opposite a libra venus conjunct my ascendant (in vedic it's virgo hasta venus and chitra ascendant and ketu) that's part of a kite with mercury and uranus (and a t-square with venus and mars ... if you throw in chiron im pretty sure the mystic rectangle in my chart hits both my moon and venus too)

and i can talk to someone all day every day and hate them

they'll probably know i don't like them, but ive never seen why that matters when you have a conversation and sometimes im just bored or can feel that people want to just talk so i let them because it doesnt make much difference to me if im there anyway and they want to

doesnt mean i dont pay attention to the quality of the conversations i have just because i have them

i dont feel very good about just shutting other people down or ignoring them, so i wont

edit:

as for the other stuff i'd argue ascendant and moon were more important than sun since theyre more personal and offset the expression of things so much

the ascendant doesnt just show you how the world sees a person it sets the way their life plays out

houses can make a huge difference in the way a chart reads and how much weight certain things have

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posted October 26, 2018 09:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lerena:
I disagree. I am always my Ascendant no matter what time it is. Saying it's a mask still implies it's fake and not a true part of you. I disagree with this concept. My Ascendant is a legitimate part of how I identify myself and those traits are mine 24/7. I'm not able to just put those traits on pause or take them off at will, because my Ascendant is so deep and engraved into my identity that I cannot help but disagree with your reasoning. It's at the same level of my identity as my Sun is.

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agree with you here, people always notice the libra, and i'm not the kind of person who has a filter or even thinks to act a certain way or present a certain image

it's not a mask, it's as much a part of me as anything else

posted October 26, 2018 09:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ameliamei:

I’ve never seen it pointed out either but now that it has been I’m like “Eek. Guilty!” 😬 Sounds like you have a really interesting chart!

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my chart has a lot going on (https://imgur.com/a/sjHmoeS ... i prefer whole sign houses and have no preference for sidereal or tropical, but people here seem to generally prefer placidus/tropical so here)

posted October 26, 2018 09:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lerena:
I disagree. I am always my Ascendant no matter what time it is. Saying it's a mask still implies it's fake and not a true part of you. I disagree with this concept. My Ascendant is a legitimate part of how I identify myself and those traits are mine 24/7. I'm not able to just put those traits on pause or take them off at will, because my Ascendant is so deep and engraved into my identity that I cannot help but disagree with your reasoning. It's at the same level of my identity as my Sun is.

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