posted October 28, 2018 03:33 PM            

So, what happens when the chart ruler is in the transcendent, egoless 12th House? What’s your role, then? Well, this actually means that you are supposed to stretch yourself far beyond the role of your Ascendant and its ruling planet. It’s a confusing thing (of course it is; it’s the 12th House!) and it can take a long time for the person to realize that the old role must be released. You have to kind of give up your Ascendant when the chart ruler’s in the 12th. At least, you give up claiming it for yourself; for your ego. You have to surrender and be willing to not necessarily be this planet in an individual way but help your fellow human beings find their way toward this planet.

The 12th House is about the collective. It’s humanity. It’s not about our little egos. That’s what the 1st House and the Ascendant is. It says, “Here I am! This is me!” But, the 12th House cannot say, “This is me!” because that’s ego. It must say, “This is all of us.” Therefore, when your chart ruler is in the 12th, you must come to realize that you cannot claim that planet’s energy for yourself. When you do, there are not only karmic consequences but a terribly overwhelming feeling that comes with it. Your 12th House chart ruler must, in many ways, be surrendered while still acknowledged.

Therefore, you’ll stop seeming like a traditional example of that Rising sign. People might not be able to clearly see that energy in you or pin it down. But, there’s still a part of you that is very attuned to the chart ruler’s energy and you’re here to allow other people to be more attuned to it within themselves. You can draw others back into the tapestry of the collective by guiding them toward your chart ruler’s principles. So, this gives off the subtle impression that you are this energy. But, at the same time, it being in the elusive 12th House doesn’t make itself known too much.

Let's say that you're a Capricorn Rising with Saturn in the 12th. Your life will be more about showing people their inner Saturn: helping them be accountable for themselves, showing them how they can command their destinies, directing them toward a more important purpose. And because of being interested in such wisdoms, there’s still something “wise old-soul” about you. If you have a 12th House Mercury as the chart ruler, you’re not supposed to seek recognition for being intelligent and communicative. You’re supposed to help humanity be more intelligent and communicative, which in the end still gives you a rather smart aura. If Pluto in the 12th is ruling your chart, show your fellow human beings how they’re powerful, instead of trying to gain power for yourself. But, that, in and of itself, is a very powerful thing.

When it comes to yourself, that chart ruler in the 12th is supposed to be a way to recharge your batteries and withdraw. It’s made for your inner world. It's not supposed to be established fully in the outer world. It’s probably even a powerful source of your art, your fantasies, and your dreams. This is how it’s experienced; in an unworldly fashion. It might take a lot of suffering for you to realize that you just cannot express your Rising sign in a ways that serve the self and the ego; that’ll make people say, “You’re a Scorpio Rising, aren’t you?” Through this realization and this state of surrender, you find that 12th House redemption. This is true even if your chart ruler in the 12th happens to be conjunct your Ascendant, as I think 12th House planets rising are much different than 1st House planets rising. They’re meant to be very internalized and private.

You can see this in many celebrities who have/had their chart ruler in the 12th. Heath Ledger was not your typical Aries Rising. He was shy, reserved, kept to himself. And his chart ruler, Mars, was in the 12th. Yet, look closely and you still see a smoldering inner Martian fire beneath that shyness that made him the force of nature that he was in the acting world. Meryl Streep makes for quite a low-key, self-effacing Leo Rising. Her chart ruler is the Sun and it’s in the 12th. But, beneath the surface of that unshowy demeanor is a powerful glow, a dignity, and a light that screams Leo. Yet, like Heath’s energy, it’s very subliminal and seems to elude you as soon as you see it.

If the chart ruler determines what kind of life you have, then having your chart ruler in the 12th means living a life of being unknowable or incomprehensible, in some manner. And if the Rising sign gives other people an immediate impression of who you are, then having a 12th House planet ruling your chart means that their immediate impression is, “Who are you? Cause I’m not really sure.”
http://astroarena12.blogspot.com/2015/08/chart-ruler-in-12th-releasing-role.html?m=1

posted October 28, 2018 04:13 PM            

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I don't like this interpretation at all. It's incredibly wrong for me because if I did exactly this everyone would walk all over me and I would never get anywhere with my life.

My Mars is conjunct my Scorpio Asc in the 12th but under a degree. It falls in my first house in whole signs. I don't resonate with this at all.

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posted October 28, 2018 05:43 PM            

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Pluto in the 12th is ruling your chart, show your fellow human beings how they’re powerful, instead of trying to gain power for yourself. But, that, in and of itself, is a very powerful thing.

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Overcoming the limitations of your ego is more about balance and finding a middle ground. To say, "This is all of us" means you must still include yourself in expressing those qualities. You are part of the whole and you still have those qualities yourself and you deserve to noticeably express them as they normally manifest. The only difference is you don't want to be the only person to express those qualities. Other people deserve them too and you want everyone to know that.

posted October 28, 2018 05:55 PM            

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Originally posted by ana_bee:
Is it really so? Or is it maybe a fear of yours, you need to overcome? I don’t think that having mars in 12th house means, you have to be a push-over. It rather means .. instead of wanting to be the first and best in everything, you need to learn to allow other people to reach their goals, too. .. to learn that sometimes being 2nd best with dignity and fairness, holds more power in itself, than being 1st.

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That's definitely not what I am dealing with as of now. It's not a fear either, more like something I struggled with when I was younger because of what happened in my childhood.

posted October 29, 2018 04:13 AM            

What can happen with the 12th house however,is martyrdom. But even in this, there is ego here I.e "I am so selfless, I will save others even if it costs me and everyone will see what a selfless person I am" etc.

Mars in 12th would for instance still have the sharp Mars energy, but it will manifest itself in ways that that have a 12th house signature to it.

With Heath Ledger(example used) if Mars is indeed in the 12th house with the accurate Asc, the placement of Mars here would suggest someone who may be an activist(Mars) for the underdog(12th) or the fringe people of society(12th).

It could also suggest an ability to see with incredible precision or startling insight(Mars), the psychological undertones or hidden aspects(12th) of subjects/people.

I see this evidenced in Heath when he took on the role of a sensitive cowboy in Broke back Mountain and the deranged lunatic "The Joker" in "The Dark Knight". Even the awkward cast out who dreams of being a Knight in " A Knight's Tale".

In most of his roles,i inferred someone who liked playing "ordinary", " self doubting" or "emotionally scarred" individuals(who have Pisces/12th house or Neptune themes to them)

He avoided roles where he was the " hunk" or "romantic hero" etc. Except perhaps in "10 things I hate about you"? But even in that, there was not that " Jock" feel. But rather an independent rebel who falls for a cynical girl.

Maybe it was because Heath had Mars in Pisces(I think). And so it made him attracted to such characters?

Typically though, Mars in 12th or Mars ruling the 12th would be the type of person who identifies(12th) with the ordinary folk(which is the masses really).

People who have 12th house emphasis tend to dislike(even hate) "elitism". So its not that they are without ego, they just become the " microphone" or "voice" of many. So a "Jesus" complex i.e "I can save anyone" can also become their weakness.

posted October 29, 2018 08:20 AM            

But I don’t think this contradicts anything that was written in the article. That’s actually how I interpreted the article, to begin with.

posted October 29, 2018 08:41 AM            

i wouldn't say libra energy wasnt expressed or pronounced since thats the one people notice the most often

my sun not so much regardless of system

with the ego thing...

posted October 29, 2018 08:45 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Ha my chart ruler is Jupiter conjunct Uranus in the 12th...I help others get in touch with what makes them unique and accept themselves as they are, I help others get in touch with hope and their optimistic side, I help others get in touch with their open minded side, I help others get in touch with their rebellious and activist side, I help others get in touch with that side of them that questions the status quo, I help others get in touch with their curious side that wants to explore new things and craves change, I help others get in touch with their adventurous spirit, I help others get in touch with their philosophical side, I also perhaps help others get in touch with that side of them that likes to flirt with disaster and take risks (this one I have to be careful with and try hard to use my power to influence others in a positive way)...

Great article, thanks for sharing!

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posted October 29, 2018 09:11 AM            

But i view ego as necessary and is survival. And it is rather its more extreme qualities that people speak of when they think of "ego" i.e being obnoxious, overly bombastic,extremely selfish, too self important and conceited etc.

Ego is the separation from nothingness. And in the state of nothingness, one is a void,nameless, is potential personality but without form.

Birth gives ego in that the "God in you". So as much as you are a part of "Godhead". You are also apart from " Godhead"

Ego gives likes,dislikes ,wants,needs, desires,perceptions,skin tone,mind and is the very essence of what we mean by "Sun sign" personality

So even Sun in 12th doesn't mean the "absence" of ego or even the "transcendence" of it. But rather the perspective the ego has relative to 12th house matters.

Here the ego sees the connection with others and is influenced by the external as much as it influences the external(reciprocity is the nature of an ego)

It seems "selfless". But in actual fact, its "self" is the expression of constantly wanting to identify "with" the many. In that multiple identities doesn't mean "transcendence".

It just means many viewpoints and outlooks (Gemini, Sag being similar) as opposed to a singular one(the presumed definition of "ego")

Even monks at a "holy" temple get into fist fights because of differences of opinion. So even these so called "enlightened" people who speak of "dissociating with ego" have yet to get rid of their own i.e as long as they know what they agree with and what they do not agree with. The ego is there.

An "egoless" person would hypothetically agree with everything and nothing, have no opinion and all opinions all at the same time. And anger(a symptom of ego presence) would be impossible for such a person. As would be any emotion on the whole.

posted October 29, 2018 10:11 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Perhaps its just the presumed definition of "ego" that I disagree with. In that many believe that to have one(ego) is detrimental i.e "my boss has a huge ego" etc.

But i view ego as necessary and is survival. And it is rather its more extreme qualities that people speak of when they think of "ego" i.e being obnoxious, overly bombastic,extremely selfish, too self important and conceited etc.

Ego is the separation from nothingness. And in the state of nothingness, one is a void,nameless, is potential personality but without form.

Birth gives ego in that the "God in you". So as much as you are [b]a part of "Godhead". You are also apart from " Godhead"

Ego gives likes,dislikes ,wants,needs, desires,perceptions,skin tone,mind and is the very essence of what we mean by "Sun sign" personality

So even Sun in 12th doesn't mean the "absence" of ego or even the "transcendence" of it. But rather the perspective the ego has relative to 12th house matters.

Here the ego sees the connection with others and is influenced by the external as much as it influences the external(reciprocity is the nature of an ego)

It seems "selfless". But in actual fact, its "self" is the expression of constantly wanting to identify "with" the many. In that multiple identities doesn't mean "transcendence".

It just means many viewpoints and outlooks (Gemini, Sag being similar) as opposed to a singular one(the presumed definition of "ego")

Even monks at a "holy" temple get into fist fights because of differences of opinion. So even these so called "enlightened" people who speak of "dissociating with ego" have yet to get rid of their own i.e as long as they know what they agree with and what they do not agree with. The ego is there.

An "egoless" person would hypothetically agree with everything and nothing, have no opinion and all opinions all at the same time. And anger(a symptom of ego presence) would be impossible for such a person. As would be any emotion on the whole.

In short...a robot.[/B]

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there isn't anything wrong with ego, it's just something people naturally have yeah

it's the filter we experience the world through and it's important on that level

so i agree with you there

but with the issue of the void i'd argue that being without form is the same as being everything rather than nothing (though it's sort of both simultaneously really) because everything is connected

even being "separate" defined by ego those definitions and distinctions are dependent on the connection and fit into the overall picture

so theyre really the same in a lot of ways ulimately anyway, aside from perception at any given time which is sort of fluid anyway and ultimately also irrelevant

since you cant even have a self without larger parts of whole to give it form and definition

people generally just mean attachment to ego rather than the state of having one anyway though

everyone is themselves of course thats just existing, but our attachment to ourselves and the weight we give our desires and the ways we do or dont see how all things are connected etc is the more esoteric way of speaking about ego and lack thereof

those monks might fight within a moment because they're human, but that doesnt mean it will be processed in an ego driven way afterwards and that's more the difference

posted October 29, 2018 11:38 AM            

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
we should start a cult together

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hahaha Nooooo

I am actually very mindfulness around power and the misuse of power.

We could influence others to vote to get rid of or change laws we don't agree with but I don't like using manipulation to achieve that either. I can influence others to get in touch with their non-conformist side but that doesn't mean that they will have similar views to me but I trust in the end everyone plays a role and having different views just helps us all be kept in check so we don't go to one extreme or the other, keeps us all honest in a sense since humans are naturally biased.