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Author Topic:   Grief in the chart - where do we see it?
Stellia
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posted November 04, 2018 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Where in a chart do we see how people process and experience grief?

I'd always assumed that it would be related to the moon, but I'm not so sure. We lost our dad last week after a shockingly quick decline. It's been a very difficult and traumatic time, watching him deteriorate the way he did.

I have moon in leo - a placement I'd expect to generate open sharing of emotions, dramatic tears etc.

But that's not been the case. I've hidden my emotions from my sisters so as not to distress them, choosing to do my crying in the car on my own. Hiding it as best I can.

Many of my family have been seeking out each other's company for comfort. I am craving solitude. And not getting it.

I have aqua ascendant and South Node and it's surprised me how scared I am to feel the emotions - classic Aquarian approach.

So in your experience, where do we usually see grief?

If it is the moon, could a sun-moon square affect that? Or is this a temporary glitch courtesy of t. Uranus which is on my sun and square my moon?

In true Aquarian over-analysis style, this has genuinely puzzled me the last few days 😁

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read that how we deal with grief is shown by the sign we have in our 8th house. I have it in cancer and I tend to deal with grief pretty well, 8th house in cancer sees death as natural is what I read. Add that I have moon in pisces square neptune so I feel this also helps bc I am spiritual and my views also help me see death as something positive and natural.

My partner has the 8th in Sagittarius and he has Jupiter in Virgo conjunct Saturn in Libra. He is an atheist and skeptical, he has a very dark view of death, kind of nihilistic I would say. He has a lot of anxiety around death, a big fear of it. I feel his Jupiter is afflicted since is at fall in Virgo and conjuncts Saturn, he is unable to see the bigger picture and to have faith in a higher power.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stellia:

I have moon in leo - a placement I'd expect to generate open sharing of emotions, dramatic tears etc.

But that's not been the case. I've hidden my emotions from my sisters so as not to distress them, choosing to do my crying in the car on my own. Hiding it as best I can.


I would also check the sign in the IC in addition to the sign in the 8th house. People with IC in virgo or gemini or in an air sign are more likely to not want to explore their emotions too much or to intellectualize them to not feel them.

If you have AC in aquarius you might have IC in Taurus so that would make you more reserved about your feelings, you internalize your feelings more and keep your feelings to yourself, you are more private preferring to grief in private and process your emotions privately, add that scorpio is on your MC probably reinforcing this need to hide your emotions and put on a tough exterior for others.

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Stellia
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posted November 04, 2018 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Hypatia238 that actually makes sense. I have libra on the cusp of the 8th (desire for decorum), my IC is in gemini and MC Sagittarius so I'm a 'learn the lessons and move on' kind of person I guess.

I still feel sad and get upset at odd moments, and the funeral is going to be tough because it's unavoidable then, but in general, I'm not for copious obvious grief it turns out.

The sister who's very weepy has Scorpio rising and pisces on the IC - Gemini on the cusp of the 8th but cancer is completely intercepted in the 8th and a cluster of planets within the house. Death gets into her imagination and subconscious and always has -she's also psychic but tries to block it out as it scares her.

My other sister who has done much of the domestic organising and running around throughout has Saturn tightly conjunct Ceres in the 8th, tightly opposite her moon.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stellia:
Thanks Hypatia238 that actually makes sense. I have libra on the cusp of the 8th (desire for decorum), my IC is in gemini and MC Sagittarius so I'm a 'learn the lessons and move on' kind of person I guess.

Yes IC in Gemini does not feel comfortable delving too deeply into emotions, add that Sag in MC wants to appear happy and optimistic to others. Makes sense with Libra in the 8th you probably don't want to get lost in the grief and want to maintain some degree of balance throughout this process which I think is good, that should help you stay somewhat centered in spite of the pain.

I also feel bc moon in pisces rules my 8th that the go with the flow trait of pisces helps me move on when someone dies and not get stuck in the grief like is easier for me to radically accept it and move on. I could see though how pisces could also get lost in the grief, I feel it for a moment when someone I care for passes that potential of getting lost in the loss but I don't let myself get lost and see that boundary and don't cross it and instead tap into the more positive traits of pisces, seeing this as natural, accepting it and going with the flow allowing me to move on with ease.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stellia:

My other sister who has done much of the domestic organizing and running around throughout has Saturn tightly conjunct Ceres in the 8th, tightly opposite her moon.

Interesting, makes sense she copes with grief by supporting others by doing the things others don't want to think about or do during such a tough time, saturn values structure and been there for others in a concrete way. Hopefully Saturn will keep her strong, she probably feels she has to be strong for you guys but she also needs to process what is going on and emotional support and permission to fall apart a little.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stellia:

The sister who's very weepy has Scorpio rising and pisces on the IC - Gemini on the cusp of the 8th but cancer is completely intercepted in the 8th and a cluster of planets within the house. Death gets into her imagination and subconscious and always has -she's also psychic but tries to block it out as it scares her.

So she is the deep feeler out of the three of you. She needs help with grounding and not getting lost in the grief. She probably concerns me the most out of the three of you. Hopefully she doesn't deal with this by drinking and turning to alcohol.

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Lerena
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posted November 04, 2018 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I read that how we deal with grief is shown by the sign we have in our 8th house.
It seems that I think about death without involving an emotional aspect. I know and understand that death is part of life and someone in their 70's dying just makes me acknowledge they lived a full life and I understand their time on this planet had to end. People die and that's normal. I'll die one day as well. Gemini is the ruler of my 8th house and my Gemini Moon is in 8th house too.

quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
8th house in cancer sees death as natural is what I read. Add that I have moon in pisces square neptune so I feel this also helps bc I am spiritual and my views also help me see death as something positive and natural.
To me, death is not the end of someone's existence. Their life ending on Earth opens them up to the beginning of another life elsewhere. I'm probably able to be as emotionally detached about death, because I'm extremely spiritual and I don't believe you die and that's it. I believe in reincarnation and other lifetimes. Cancer is also in my 8th house.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted November 04, 2018 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My condolences and sympathies on the loss of your father.

You had it right the first time, the Moon. Look to see if your natal Moon is getting a quincunx transit from Pluto now at 19° Capricorn. Or if it is in early Leo, it may be higher in declination (21-22° north), which is being transited by contra-parallels from Saturn and/or Pluto. Those two planets relate to internal, contained processing of feelings when in aspect to Moon. You're speaking of a current life process. So it always helps to see the current transits.

Saturn and the 12th are also mentioned, but death is really what we're talking about is death and loss, which show in the houses of endings. But of course, Moon relates to all of our feeling nature.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lerena:
To me, death is not the end of someone's existence. Their life ending on Earth opens them up to the beginning of another life elsewhere. I'm probably able to be as emotionally detached about death, because I'm extremely spiritual and I don't believe you die and that's it. I believe in reincarnation and other lifetimes. Cancer is also in my 8th house.

I feel that way too! You are saying you have both gemini and cancer in the 8th am I right?

Maybe cancer in the 8th sees death as "coming home" in some level, after all our time here is temporary so this is not truly home bc of that so we don't fear it as much and see it in a more positive light.

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hypatia238
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posted November 04, 2018 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The beauty of grief is that you had something to lose in the first place, something that truly mattered to you and that you valued. I guess this why the 8th, the house of loss and death, is at the opposite of the 2nd house (gains).

I don't know if it is this thread but it has put me in the mood to grief, when you grief you feel nostalgic but you are also celebrating the past too in a sense, celebrating what you once had that you carry with you that will always be a part of you.

That is so moon in pisces (8H ruler) square neptune of me to romanticize loss.

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Lerena
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posted November 04, 2018 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I feel that way too! You are saying you have both gemini and cancer in the 8th am I right?
Yes. Gemini rules my 8th house, but Cancer is in there too. I actually still feel the Cancer part of my 8th house at times even though the house's actual ruler is Gemini.

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Plut0nian2
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posted November 05, 2018 03:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Plut0nian2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
The beauty of grief is that you had something to lose in the first place, something that truly mattered to you and that you valued. I guess this why the 8th, the house of loss and death, is at the opposite of the 2nd house (gains).

I don't know if it is this thread but it has put me in the mood to grief, when you grief you feel nostalgic but you are also celebrating the past too in a sense, celebrating what you once had that you carry with you that will always be a part of you.

That is so moon in pisces (8H ruler) square neptune of me to romanticize loss.


Hey fellow Piscean Moon.
That was a painfully sweet description, I wish I could feel it that way too. I can't help seeing it all black when it comes to losing people I love which most of the time happens too early for me.

I was going to comment about 8th H too.
Especially when it comes to death. Having Saturn in there conjucting my 8th H cusp takes way too much time for me to kind of heal even though 8th H cusp is in Aqua.
However I have too much water (Sun, Mercury, Asc in Cancer, Moon in Pisces) and even Venus, Mars and Jupiter that are in Leo square Pluto so..

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Melinn
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posted November 05, 2018 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Melinn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your question has many layers to it. Grief is an emotion, how we experience emotions is due to many complex factors.

How we process grief, how we process feelings and emotions is again very complex and varies depending on many factors. Its a hard question. Also what kind of grief?

One that strucks you out of no where so to speak?

One you have carried for a long time but denied, and letting it out now?
One that is attached to trauma?
Or a loss?
Or a percieved loss?
Grief is connected to many things.


For emotions, look at the moon.
For how we process them, look at the moon.
(Also the progressed, transits etc).
How we go on strong (or not) after a heavy period of grief, look at the whole chart and transits etc.

The sun, the mars, saturn.
Mercury if you are a thought guided person etc. Many things to weigh in

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Ami Anne
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posted November 05, 2018 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is an asteroid and I have it conj the ASC--sigh-. I will have to check my list and tell you

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hypatia238
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posted November 05, 2018 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Plut0nian2:
Hey fellow Piscean Moon.
That was a painfully sweet description, I wish I could feel it that way too. I can't help seeing it all black when it comes to losing people I love which most of the time happens too early for me.

I was going to comment about 8th H too.
Especially when it comes to death. Having Saturn in there conjucting my 8th H cusp takes way too much time for me to kind of heal even though 8th H cusp is in Aqua.
However I have too much water (Sun, Mercury, Asc in Cancer, Moon in Pisces) and even Venus, Mars and Jupiter that are in Leo square Pluto so..


I like to make things sound nice but I do feel pain deeply so don't be fooled by my mercury in the 9th widely square neptune at the GC on my AC.

Its odd so far when people die in my life I really have coped with loss/grief very well and am able to radically accept the death and move on, I genuinely feel that they are no longer suffering and feel a sense of peace bc of that, I genuinely see death as very natural but I do worry and wonder how I will cope when my parents pass away or my husband, specially my husband bc I live with him and he is part of my day to day and I worry about how big that void will feel and that scares me the most losing someone that is such a big part of my life and day to day. I feel it could go either way, I could grief at first but then move on like I tend to but with him I wonder if it will be different, I wonder if I will feel guilt and if it will haunt me if he were to pass prematurely, loss can be scary for sure. But I have a strong survival instinct which pushes me to radically accept, let go and move on and perhaps that is my saving grace when it comes to loss and grief. That is the dichotomy of the 8th house, is a scary house but is also very resilient so if I tap into the survival instinct of the 8th house I will be fine.

Now grief is a part of my life, even day to day if we expand its meaning to include the loss of innocence, the loss of different phases of life, the end of significant relationships etc....I am very nostalgic, I am very attached to the past and never forget the people I have developed strong bonds with along the way, so I get nostalgic, I think of my childhood, my teen years, my 20s and I grief each of those phases and chapters in life, I also will always grief my ex who will always be a part of me even after I pass away. I guess moon ruling the 8th is nostalgic by nature, doesn't let go of the past ever completely in a sense.

I described myself with three words the other day: free spirited, unconventional thinker, and nostalgic.

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hypatia238
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posted November 05, 2018 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Melinn:
Your question has many layers to it. Grief is an emotion, how we experience emotions is due to many complex factors.

How we process grief, how we process feelings and emotions is again very complex and varies depending on many factors. Its a hard question. Also what kind of grief?

One that strucks you out of no where so to speak?

One you have carried for a long time but denied, and letting it out now?
One that is attached to trauma?
Or a loss?
Or a percieved loss?
Grief is connected to many things.


For emotions, look at the moon.
For how we process them, look at the moon.
(Also the progressed, transits etc).
How we go on strong (or not) after a heavy period of grief, look at the whole chart and transits etc.

The sun, the mars, saturn.
Mercury if you are a thought guided person etc. Many things to weigh in


I mean with anything you have to look at the entire chart but she wants some guidance so it makes sense to give her some key things to look at like the 8th house cusp and its ruler, the IC cusp and its ruler and the moon. Grief comes from deep attachment, losing something that you feel attached to that was a part of you. If you are talking about processing trauma and the pain that comes from it even that falls under the 8th too bc the 8th deals with death, loss, trauma, known fears and psychological issues, the scary things of life that we rather not work through or think about. The 8th rules deep bonds and we fear the loss of deep bonds so yes I think the 8th would be a good start when looking at grief and how we cope and deal with loss and grief. Then it makes sense to look at the moon and IC since the moon naturally rules the IC and the moon rules our emotions and the past, attachments as well so that would also make sense to look at.

Taking it further yes looking at mercury or jupiter and the 3rd/9th house rulers would make sense as well since it rules our ideologies, world views and how we process our thoughts and our thoughts and views impact our emotions and how we cope but the 8th is a good place to start.

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mirage29
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posted November 05, 2018 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
{{Stellia! *hug* }}
So sorry for sudden loss... of your own Father!!

If you're not feeling it yet, the tears and grief WILL come. Let it happen. It will happen at the Right time for YOU.

Soo saddened by your loss.

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Melinn
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posted November 06, 2018 05:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Melinn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I mean with anything you have to look at the entire chart but she wants some guidance so it makes sense to give her some key things to look at like the 8th house cusp and its ruler, the IC cusp and its ruler and the moon. Grief comes from deep attachment, losing something that you feel attached to that was a part of you. If you are talking about processing trauma and the pain that comes from it even that falls under the 8th too bc the 8th deals with death, loss, trauma, known fears and psychological issues, the scary things of life that we rather not work through or think about. The 8th rules deep bonds and we fear the loss of deep bonds so yes I think the 8th would be a good start when looking at grief and how we cope and deal with loss and grief. Then it makes sense to look at the moon and IC since the moon naturally rules the IC and the moon rules our emotions and the past, attachments as well so that would also make sense to look at.

Taking it further yes looking at mercury or jupiter and the 3rd/9th house rulers would make sense as well since it rules our ideologies, world views and how we process our thoughts and our thoughts and views impact our emotions and how we cope but the 8th is a good place to start.


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Melinn
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posted November 06, 2018 05:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Melinn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I mean with anything you have to look at the entire chart but she wants some guidance so it makes sense to give her some key things to look at like the 8th house cusp and its ruler, the IC cusp and its ruler and the moon. Grief comes from deep attachment, losing something that you feel attached to that was a part of you. If you are talking about processing trauma and the pain that comes from it even that falls under the 8th too bc the 8th deals with death, loss, trauma, known fears and psychological issues, the scary things of life that we rather not work through or think about. The 8th rules deep bonds and we fear the loss of deep bonds so yes I think the 8th would be a good start when looking at grief and how we cope and deal with loss and grief. Then it makes sense to look at the moon and IC since the moon naturally rules the IC and the moon rules our emotions and the past, attachments as well so that would also make sense to look at.

Taking it further yes looking at mercury or jupiter and the 3rd/9th house rulers would make sense as well since it rules our ideologies, world views and how we process our thoughts and our thoughts and views impact our emotions and how we cope but the 8th is a good place to start.



Ok I understand it better know thank you! <3

Yes our thoughts really does have a major role in how we process things and our thoughts affects feelings, feelings affects thoughts, and they affect behaviour, its a never ending cycle :/.

So I would definitely look at the mercury and 3/9th houses

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Randall
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posted November 11, 2018 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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girlwiththerainysoul
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posted November 12, 2018 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for girlwiththerainysoul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
perhaps neptune?

we usually feel grief at the loss of someone who touches our neptune or a planet of ours touches their neptune

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