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Author Topic:   If the 8th house rules procreation
ChildofVenus
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posted November 30, 2018 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChildofVenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Then why is it never mentioned in regards to couples having children? In synastry and composite it's always about Moon/Mars. But nothing about the 8th house.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moon is fertility and Mars is sex drive but 8th house/Pluto is procreation. They're all different things. Procreation simply means the process of sexual intercourse for the sole purpose of creating progeny in marriage. 8th house sex and children is not really about love and lust, it's about the psychological pleasure behind knowing you have descendants to inherit your traits and identities once you're gone. The 2nd/8th axis deals with pleasures. The 2nd house is physical and material pleasures like food and sex and luxuries like cars and houses, where the 8th house pertains to pleasures of a deeper, psychological web. Something very heavily intertwine. Procreating means you pass on the family traits, you're having sex to keep the deepness and complexity of the family line in tact. It's psychological pleasure to know your flesh and blood is alive decades and centuries into the future. Some people get high off of that, it gives them a little thrill. Thinking of like royal families across the globe, they procreate for the sake of keeping the bloodline intact.

That's why this house can also be connected to rape. A lot of rapists admit that the reason they rape women into pregnancy is because they want to keep their bloodline intact. It's nasty, in that case. But it's not always the case for 8th house couples, of course. That was just an example to put it into perspective for you.

You will also see 8th house people tend to have a very deep connection with their grandparents and other elderly in their family, because the more old people alive in your family means the more complex and deep your family is. This house is also common in politics because politics is something that runs deep and heavy over a complex web of years and years.

Hope this helps.
*had to keep editing bc I left stuff out lol*

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Aries23Degrees
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posted November 30, 2018 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Really? 8th house is about procreation?

I thought Sun was more about procreation and its subsequent 5th house associated with children. But I have also observed that Sun in 5th does equate to a big family(barring aspects to Jupiter)

And in Chaldean astrology,its Venus. As Venus rules a man's sperm count. So when Venus is in the 5th house(interestingly enough),it suggests a love of children (barring aspects with Saturn or in Cap/Aqua).

Whilst Moon in 5th suggests that fertility is high and the need to have a family/home life is quite strong(barring once again Moon in Cap/Aqua or in aspect to Saturn)

Now the 8th is also co-ruled by Mars (traditionally). But Mars is about (to be blunt) "cumming". But not necessarily procreation.

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ChildofVenus
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posted November 30, 2018 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChildofVenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I still think there are more aspects that can contribute to this. Not just Moon/Mars. I have a desire to have children with someone but their Mars inconjuncts my Moon. And I've read that inconjunctions don't count.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
5th house is children and recreational sex but I've never heard of it being procreation. Procreation is something completely different.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hm. I looked it up and it seems like people say one or the other. Weird. I've always heard it was a Pluto and 8th house thing, but I guess it depends on who you're talking to and what type of astrology they use.

Frankly, I think it makes sense that 8th is procreation and 5th is recreational sex. The 5th house is a passion and lustful house, the sex done here is done for the simple enjoyment and power that sex gives. Children are not typically thought of with regards to sex in this house but this house is associated with children nonetheless due it being the "fun" house. This house has the domain of all things that are done for the thrill and the risk and the passion and happiness it brings. Children are often considered bundles of happiness and joy, so that's where the correlation stems here. I want the sex for the fling, the affair, the fun and passion of being tangled in your arms. I want the sex for the bubbly children we can have and bring more fun into our lives through them. It's all fun!

But 8th house is more about having children for the sake of keeping the depth and complexity of one's self alive. This is a sex house also but it's sex for the depth. I don't want a fling, or an affair, or a quickie after you come home from work. I have sex with you because I want something deeper out of this relationship. I want my bloodline to prosper. I want my psychological state to blend with yours. I want the power that sex brings. The powerful family ties, the powerful orgasms, the powerful control over another person.

I think there are many sex houses because there are many types of sex and many reasons why we go about having sex. There is really no one house for it. 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 8th are all sex houses in some regard. Though, 5th and 8th are shown explicitly as sex houses more frequently.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted November 30, 2018 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
5th house is children and recreational sex but I've never heard of it being procreation. Procreation is something completely different.

Doesn't "recreational sex" lead to procreation though?

I thought the 8th house has more to do with one's psychological view of sex-sexual orientation,fetishes,sexual impulses and hangups etc. Its the sex we want in a committed relationship

The 5th I have always taken to be where we go out partying, get drunk and get laid. Wake up the next day and leave. Then someone calls much later to tell us that they have a bun in the oven etc.

I have never taken the 5th as 'deep' or psychological at all(barring Moon/Venus/ Pluto/Neptune there). It's the "quickie" sex and usually has no strings attached or any heaviness.

As with Neptune in the 5th, the native may have fathered someone but is blissfully unaware whilst with the female, she may not know who the father of the baby is...paternity court situation..lol

Whilst with Pluto there, sex gets very serious. This native will not do what I suggested above as the idea of sleeping drunk with a total stranger scares the daylights out of them.

Moon/Venus in 5th want a relationship after the sex. They want to try dating. They tend to romanticise sex and want a more "bonding" attachment afterwards ime "strings are attached".

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hypatia238
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posted November 30, 2018 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also thought the 5th house ruled procreation bc it rules the creative process, children, and romance but the 5th is also associated with casual sex and sex before marriage (7th house) so I always thought it was out of place that the 5th rules procreation since people often wait till they get married to have kids to increases the chances of survival for the offspring, the 8th also rules joint resources so having babies when you have reached that point in a relationship again increases the chances of survival and that there is a deep enough bond and commitment between the couple that will help ensure they stick around through the bad times to raise a child together.

So I like this idea of the 8th ruling procreation even though I never heard this before , but it makes more sense to me.

Maybe the 5th is procreation before marriage hence the horrible term B*stard and the 8th is procreation after marriage.

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ChildofVenus
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posted November 30, 2018 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChildofVenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Doesn't "recreational sex" lead to procreation though?

I thought the 8th house has more to do with one's psychological view of sex-sexual orientation,fetishes,sexual impulses and hangups etc. Its the sex we want in a committed relationship

The 5th I have always taken to be where we go out partying, get drunk and get laid. Wake up the next day and leave. Then someone calls much later to tell us that they have a bun in the oven etc.

I have never taken the 5th as 'deep' or psychological at all(barring Moon/Venus/ Pluto/Neptune there). It's the "quickie" sex and usually has no strings attached or any heaviness.

As with Neptune in the 5th, the native may have fathered someone but is blissfully unaware whilst with the female, she may not know who the father of the baby is...paternity court situation..lol

Whilst with Pluto there, sex gets very serious. This native will not do what I suggested above as the idea of sleeping drunk with a total stranger scares the daylights out of them.

Moon/Venus in 5th want a relationship after the sex. They want to try dating. They tend to romanticise sex and want a more "bonding" attachment afterwards ime "strings are attached".


Are you referring to the natal chart? Or synastry?

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hypatia238
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posted November 30, 2018 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"You read in astrology that sex is associated with both the 5th and the 8th house. This is confusing to the beginner. I can simplify it for you.

The 5th house rules sex for recreation. The 8th house rules sex for procreation. If you have an emphasis on the 5th or the 8th house in your chart, you can probably relate to this.

For example, I have a packed 8th with nothing in the 5th. I donít ďplayĒ sex. I say that without passing judgement. I know a lot of people who have sex for fun and recreation and see no problems with it. I just know itís a different function. Understanding this can be empowering."

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/sex-5th-house-vs-the-8th/

8th-sex, death, rebirth

The rebirth is perhaps the procreation process, you literally procreate while you have sex and give birth to new life (rebirth).

oxytocin is the love hormone which is produced during orgasm, labor, while nursing your baby which all involve the sex organs.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aries, well all sex can lead to reproducing children, but that doesn't mean recreational sex and procreational sex are the same. Recreational sex is for the fun and the passion, there is really no end goal other than to orgasm because orgasm is fun. Children are fun too but that's typically not the end goal for recreational sex. Procreational sex is for the sole purpose of having progeny. Which is why I don't think this is a 5th house issue.

I think a lot of people who associate it with the 5th house are wrongly assuming the definition of procreation. Procreation is not defined as just having children, which is a 5th house thing, it's having children for the sake of keeping the power balanced and in place in one's family and society. It's about establishing and furthering the genetic connection of the social and familial layer.

I don't think many 8th house people are the type to adopt for these reasons, they see having children as something that is genetically/biologically influenced. Children give a very deep tie and sense of security for them and if they do adopt it would take lots of deep thought and consideration on their behalf. It's a house of sharing but they find it hard to share their own flesh and blood with people outside the close familial circle. It upsets them to know they can't have children of their own DNA.

I think 5th house people are more likely to adopt because they just love children in general and see family less as some sort of cult to build within its own walls and more as a fun, adventure-filled thing and so they love the idea of bringing more happiness into their life with adopted children. They probably wouldn't think twice about adopting, they'd be glad to take in adopted children. It's not to say 8th house people are ***holes who don't want adopted children, but because sex and procreation are so closely tied for them it makes them consider these things harder and longer. Children are blood ties to someone else and blood is so sacred to them. They are life and death people.

Notice that a lot of Leo influenced celebs have adopted babies and take sex and giving birth less seriously. They are not usually the type to be horribly upset that they can't have biological children. They see the fun and happiness to be found in adopting. Procreation is not something they really stress over. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, they typically find a way around it aka adoption. Aquarius also, they like to adopt.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But I do agree that sex is honestly something that can be found in many houses. It is hard to pin down to one house because there are so many different reasons to have sex and people also have so many different expectations for sex. Some want children, some just want the orgasm, some just want to see what it feels like. Some do it for a job, some do it to keep from getting bored, etc...

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capricorncheriscty
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posted November 30, 2018 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Well I still think there are more aspects that can contribute to this. Not just Moon/Mars. I have a desire to have children with someone but their Mars inconjuncts my Moon. And I've read that inconjunctions don't count.

I think if its aspecting it should count. The aspect simply tells how long it could possibly play out and if it would play out positively or negatively. No aspect present means it doesn't pop up as frequently in day to day life.

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hypatia238
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posted November 30, 2018 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
But I do agree that sex is honestly something that can be found in many houses. It is hard to pin down to one house because there are so many different reasons to have sex and people also have so many different expectations for sex. Some want children, some just want the orgasm, some just want to see what it feels like. Some do it for a job, some do it to keep from getting bored, etc...

Some do it for romance and to feel more deeply connected to another human being as you surrender to them invading the most private parts of your body and that act can be so powerful when you see it like that.

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hypatia238
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posted November 30, 2018 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Aries, well all sex can lead to reproducing children, but that doesn't mean recreational sex and procreational sex are the same. Recreational sex is for the fun and the passion, there is really no end goal other than to orgasm because orgasm is fun. Children are fun too but that's typically not the end goal for recreational sex. Procreational sex is for the sole purpose of having progeny. Which is why I don't think this is a 5th house issue.

I think a lot of people who associate it with the 5th house are wrongly assuming the definition of procreation. Procreation is not defined as just having children, which is a 5th house thing, it's having children for the sake of keeping the power balanced and in place in one's family and society. It's about establishing and furthering the genetic connection of the social and familial layer.

I don't think many 8th house people are the type to adopt for these reasons, they see having children as something that is genetically/biologically influenced. Children give a very deep tie and sense of security for them and if they do adopt it would take lots of deep thought and consideration on their behalf. It's a house of sharing but they find it hard to share their own flesh and blood with people outside the close familial circle. It upsets them to know they can't have children of their own DNA.

I think 5th house people are more likely to adopt because they just love children in general and see family less as some sort of cult to build within its own walls and more as a fun, adventure-filled thing and so they love the idea of bringing more happiness into their life with adopted children. They probably wouldn't think twice about adopting, they'd be glad to take in adopted children. It's not to say 8th house people are ***holes who don't want adopted children, but because sex and procreation are so closely tied for them it makes them consider these things harder and longer. Children are blood ties to someone else and blood is so sacred to them. They are life and death people.

Notice that a lot of Leo influenced celebs have adopted babies and take sex and giving birth less seriously. They are not usually the type to be horribly upset that they can't have biological children. They see the fun and happiness to be found in adopting. Procreation is not something they really stress over. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, they typically find a way around it aka adoption. Aquarius also, they like to adopt.


Great analysis.

Its interesting I have venus conjunct mars in leo in the 8th and to me bringing children to the world is super serious and sacred but I am open to adopting. I HATE though how casual people are about procreating, its a huge pet peeve of mine.

When I was younger I had a super super super strong instinct and desire to procreate, so powerful and there is one person that I loved with all my heart and soul and he is the only person I truly have wanted to procreate with and since I take procreation so seriously I cannot just have a baby with anybody, I have to want to merge and become one with them and love them with all my heart, if not it feels I am not honoring how serious this act is.

Venus rules my 5th too btw; again venus conjunct mars in leo in the 8th.

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ChildofVenus
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posted November 30, 2018 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChildofVenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
"You read in astrology that sex is associated with both the 5th and the 8th house. This is confusing to the beginner. I can simplify it for you.

The 5th house rules sex for recreation. The 8th house rules sex for procreation. If you have an emphasis on the 5th or the 8th house in your chart, you can probably relate to this.

For example, I have a packed 8th with nothing in the 5th. I donít ďplayĒ sex. I say that without passing judgement. I know a lot of people who have sex for fun and recreation and see no problems with it. I just know itís a different function. Understanding this can be empowering."

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/sex-5th-house-vs-the-8th/

8th-sex, death, rebirth

The rebirth is perhaps the procreation process, you literally procreate while you have sex and give birth to new life (rebirth).

oxytocin is the love hormone which is produced during orgasm, labor, while nursing your baby which all involve the sex organs.



So what when there are 8th and 5th house overlays in synastry? Yeah I can relate somewhat about not having play sex. But I have sex with people who I'm not in a serious relationship with. That's Venus square Uranus behavior though.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted December 01, 2018 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Are you referring to the natal chart? Or synastry? [/QUOTE

I was talking natal there.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted December 01, 2018 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Aries, well all sex can lead to reproducing children, but that doesn't mean recreational sex and procreational sex are the same. Recreational sex is for the fun and the passion, there is really no end goal other than to orgasm because orgasm is fun. Children are fun too but that's typically not the end goal for recreational sex. Procreational sex is for the sole purpose of having progeny. Which is why I don't think this is a 5th house issue.

I think a lot of people who associate it with the 5th house are wrongly assuming the definition of procreation. Procreation is not defined as just having children, which is a 5th house thing, it's having children for the sake of keeping the power balanced and in place in one's family and society. It's about establishing and furthering the genetic connection of the social and familial layer.

I don't think many 8th house people are the type to adopt for these reasons, they see having children as something that is genetically/biologically influenced. Children give a very deep tie and sense of security for them and if they do adopt it would take lots of deep thought and consideration on their behalf. It's a house of sharing but they find it hard to share their own flesh and blood with people outside the close familial circle. It upsets them to know they can't have children of their own DNA.

I think 5th house people are more likely to adopt because they just love children in general and see family less as some sort of cult to build within its own walls and more as a fun, adventure-filled thing and so they love the idea of bringing more happiness into their life with adopted children. They probably wouldn't think twice about adopting, they'd be glad to take in adopted children. It's not to say 8th house people are ***holes who don't want adopted children, but because sex and procreation are so closely tied for them it makes them consider these things harder and longer. Children are blood ties to someone else and blood is so sacred to them. They are life and death people.

Notice that a lot of Leo influenced celebs have adopted babies and take sex and giving birth less seriously. They are not usually the type to be horribly upset that they can't have biological children. They see the fun and happiness to be found in adopting. Procreation is not something they really stress over. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, they typically find a way around it aka adoption. Aquarius also, they like to adopt.


Well, I stand corrected.

Charlize Theron,Sandra Bullock are two Leo females that I know adopted.

Julianna Rancic-after that painful up/down drama of trying to conceive,got a surrogate.

Julianna is a Leo/Sun Leo Moon. And that yummy Taurus hubby of hers is Aqua Moon.

I have Leo 5th and not really sure about the "kid" thing. I swing back/forth as the ruler of the 5th(Sun) is conjunct Neptune.

Would the 5th house denote the personality of my 1st born perhaps?

I have Uranus in 8th house and I have no idea what that means in terms of procreation. But its food for thought.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted December 01, 2018 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ChildofVenus:

So what when there are 8th and 5th house overlays in synastry? Yeah I can relate somewhat about not having play sex. But I have sex with people who I'm not in a serious relationship with. That's Venus square Uranus behavior though.

I think in that case it would just be a mix of both houses qualities in terms of children. It depends on the people, but maybe you desire to procreate but also have more carefree views towards it if it is not possible to do so.

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Capguy75
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posted December 01, 2018 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capguy75     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anecdotal, I guess, however I've seen a tendency for affairs/illicit romances to pop up around 8th house transits and aspects. For example, someone I knew had an affair blow up around the time of an eighth house eclipse. I always put it down to the dark, repressed desire element I've heard can be associated with the 8th house - the taboo, etc.

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hypatia238
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posted December 01, 2018 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Capguy75:
Anecdotal, I guess, however I've seen a tendency for affairs/illicit romances to pop up around 8th house transits and aspects. For example, someone I knew had an affair blow up around the time of an eighth house eclipse. I always put it down to the dark, repressed desire element I've heard can be associated with the 8th house - the taboo, etc.

I agree 8th house could die for someone they love hard but the desire nature of the 8th and the desire to connect more deeply with another can drive them to infidelity if that need to connect deeply in an intimate way is not been met in their own relationship.

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Hu_w_ryl_A
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posted December 02, 2018 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hu_w_ryl_A     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Aries, well all sex can lead to reproducing children, but that doesn't mean recreational sex and procreational sex are the same. Recreational sex is for the fun and the passion, there is really no end goal other than to orgasm because orgasm is fun. Children are fun too but that's typically not the end goal for recreational sex. Procreational sex is for the sole purpose of having progeny. Which is why I don't think this is a 5th house issue.

I think a lot of people who associate it with the 5th house are wrongly assuming the definition of procreation. Procreation is not defined as just having children, which is a 5th house thing, it's having children for the sake of keeping the power balanced and in place in one's family and society. It's about establishing and furthering the genetic connection of the social and familial layer.

I don't think many 8th house people are the type to adopt for these reasons, they see having children as something that is genetically/biologically influenced. Children give a very deep tie and sense of security for them and if they do adopt it would take lots of deep thought and consideration on their behalf. It's a house of sharing but they find it hard to share their own flesh and blood with people outside the close familial circle. It upsets them to know they can't have children of their own DNA.

I think 5th house people are more likely to adopt because they just love children in general and see family less as some sort of cult to build within its own walls and more as a fun, adventure-filled thing and so they love the idea of bringing more happiness into their life with adopted children. They probably wouldn't think twice about adopting, they'd be glad to take in adopted children. It's not to say 8th house people are ***holes who don't want adopted children, but because sex and procreation are so closely tied for them it makes them consider these things harder and longer. Children are blood ties to someone else and blood is so sacred to them. They are life and death people.

Notice that a lot of Leo influenced celebs have adopted babies and take sex and giving birth less seriously. They are not usually the type to be horribly upset that they can't have biological children. They see the fun and happiness to be found in adopting. Procreation is not something they really stress over. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, they typically find a way around it aka adoption. Aquarius also, they like to adopt.


That's really interesting and I couldn't agree more!

What's interesting is that in another forum I posted a thread because I was having this weird feeling that while children are extremely important to me, I felt like I might never have any (for whatever reason, it was a weird feeling because on the one hand I felt like I was MEANT to have children and I had never questioned it, while on the other hand I am in my mid 20s and I really don't know when the right time will come for me..). So I asked about it.

Anyhow, I was told since my 5th house had no planets in it and its ruler (Mercury for Gemini) was in my 3rd house, having children wouldn't be important in my life and maybe rather extended family (nieces, nephews etc. (H3)) would be in my life.

That made me extremely sad and didn't resonate well with me. Because while I love children in general, I do feel like there is this deep need to have children of my own (and I want 3 )

Now, reading this, I have noticed I have the moon (virgo) on the cusp of my 8th house.. which would make procreating extremely important to me, right?
(On another note, I have asteroid child on the cusp of my 5H so well )

------------------
*DRACONIC SOUL SELF*

Sun + Venus - LEO
Moon + Psyche - SAG
ASC + Uranus/Neptune - ARI

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Hu_w_ryl_A
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posted December 02, 2018 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hu_w_ryl_A     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
But I do agree that sex is honestly something that can be found in many houses. It is hard to pin down to one house because there are so many different reasons to have sex and people also have so many different expectations for sex. Some want children, some just want the orgasm, some just want to see what it feels like. Some do it for a job, some do it to keep from getting bored, etc...

Agreed! I've read somewhere that ruler of 6 in 8 could mean working in the sex industry, as well as venus in 8 (I think?).
And maybe ruler of 2 in 8 could mean having sex for security / self worth reasons?
Ruler of 1 in 8 maybe for your ego ?
Ruler of 7 in 8 for relationship reasons, rescpectively connecting with your partner (I have that, BTW)?
(...)
Ruler of 3 in 8 as a way of communicating / out of curiosity?


I'm just playing around here.. I don't know too much about astrology yet

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*DRACONIC SOUL SELF*

Sun + Venus - LEO
Moon + Psyche - SAG
ASC + Uranus/Neptune - ARI

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