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Author Topic:   Let's talk about WW3
Queen Salome
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posted December 17, 2018 07:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Queen Salome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you think that we are heading to WW3?
Based on astrology, when do you think it will happen?

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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the involvement of wars spread out throughout multiple continents particularly superpowers involving some of the same countries and plenty of civillian lives lost kind of constitutes as a world war technically

in which case it's here, if you're talking about something definitive that makes people more aware of it

my guess is in about a year or 2 probably spring or late summer there will be a deeper awareness of it

the reality is the us has its allies and other countries have theirs and there's about as many countries in this war (whether actively fighting or aggressively negotiating to defend their own borders, part of war is peace afterall, at least you want to be strategic about it and fight when it's best to strike not before) as there have been throughout history in what constitutes as a world war

though really that's all just meaningless because the real war that needs to be fought is between civillians around the world and their governments who are causing all of the decay surrounding them before it escalates beyond repair

and the only fault of those civillians will be that they stood by out of fear and confusion and let it happen

that's the real war, that would be the interesting one to watch unfold

but world war 3? if you really read about all of the military action taking place on the globe, it's kind of already a thing just not in title

right now we just call it a series of military operations and negotiations

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Nine
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posted December 17, 2018 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WW I happened because the British couldn't handle the German challenge.

WW II happened because the Russians made Socialism work.

WW III doesn't have to happen if the Americans can find a graceful bow out. Say, the way the Soviet Union went into the night.

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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nine:
WW I happened because the British couldn't handle the German challenge.

WW II happened because the Russians made Socialism work.

WW III doesn't have to happen if the Americans can find a graceful bow out. Say, the way the Soviet Union went into the night.


hell of a lot more to both of those wars than that oversimplification, and considered russia was an ally in spite of the socialism it's not the best point (though that was technically hitler's fault for violating a treaty)

neither war was called a world war at the time, they were named that after and what's going on qualifies as one already

escalation is likely inevitable and there is no graceful bowing out that makes strategic sense currently which is why it hasnt been

the us has been at war for nearly all of its history with an exception of about 16 years or so total

you start strong and hard and you have to keep pushing and crushing to stay on top, lot of enemies otherwise nature of power

america would be better off doing something insane and violent than backing off in all honesty

i don't agree with the wars btw, like i said i think it's a shame that civillians aren't seeing their governments as their enemies considering all of the war and revolting en masse

but from a strategic standpoint trying to keep power destabizing south america and installing puppets while throwing cannon fodder at the middle east to keep a presence that's ok to gamble with makes more sense than bowing out gracefully currently

massive shifts in the us government (even just on a surface level) would need to happen for gracefully bowing out to be safe and not look weak given the old strategy

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DualGemV2
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posted December 17, 2018 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I scream BS... Why... global conflicts only occur when there leaders fail to come to an agreement.

We've had centuries of wars in the developed world so thats given nations lots of opportunities to settle there differences, at least in the developed world.

It wasn't until the 60's that France actually started to trust Germany and even during the First World War France and Great Britain were allies even thought they had centuries of war before that.

Developed countries are more likely to settle there differences...believe me we will get some tough economic rhetoric and threats..but after some time all parties will back down.

At most:
1)you'll have increase in global arms spending...but you will not get a global conflict because of the Mutual Assurance
Theory.

2)Secondary cold wars: For example Iran and Saudi Arabia are engaged in "A Middle Eastern Cold War" and play on the Islamic divide. The two counties do not share a land border but they do have countries in the middle east that religiously align with them and have them find each other.

3)Trade and Economic wars...backed with strong rhetoric and words.

So you won't get a global conflict but you will get regional conflicts ie cold wars and trade wars.

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Lalafortunaea
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posted December 17, 2018 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lalafortunaea     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do we all expect some official announcement on the news like "Alert, people, WW3 is here!"

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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualGemV2:
I scream BS... Why... global conflicts only occur when there leaders fail to come to an agreement.

We've had centuries of wars in the developed world so thats given nations lots of opportunities to settle there differences, at least in the developed world.

It wasn't until the 60's that France actually started to trust Germany and even during the First World War France and Great Britain were allies even thought they had centuries of war before that.

Developed countries are more likely to settle there differences...believe me we will get some tough economic rhetoric and threats..but after some time all parties will back down.

At most:
1)you'll have increase in global arms spending...but you will not get a global conflict because of the Mutual Assurance
Theory.

2)Secondary cold wars: For example Iran and Saudi Arabia are engaged in "A Middle Eastern Cold War" and play on the Islamic divide. The two counties do not share a land border but they do have countries in the middle east that religiously align with them and have them find each other.

3)Trade and Economic wars...backed with strong rhetoric and words.

So you won't get a global conflict but you will get regional conflicts ie cold wars and trade wars.

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past wars "settling" old conflicts doesn't change the current state of the world or say much about the future

also as refugees spread and public unrest grows in the places they spread to you'll see a lot more conflict, not to mention the huge amounts of civil unrest worldwide

factor in dwindling resources on a dying planet and extreme weather that's likely to get worse

the 12 year irreversible change towards human extinction science reports for example are going to start to make civillians more desperate etc and so on this will cause issues within countries that will likely ripple outward on a larger scale

expecting stability to continue just based on fear in an increasingly unstable condition doesn't quite make sense to me given all the factors and the fact that past a certain point fear motivates action rather than prevents it

there's signs of economic collapse in a lot of places across the board projected within a time frame that isn't too far off, which will provide more war incentive not less ultimately


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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
Do we all expect some official announcement on the news like "Alert, people, WW3 is here!"


a text message might work better

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DualGemV2
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posted December 17, 2018 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:
past wars "settling" old conflicts doesn't change the current state of the world or say much about the future

also as refugees spread and public unrest grows in the places they spread to you'll see a lot more conflict, not to mention the huge amounts of civil unrest worldwide

factor in dwindling resources on a dying planet and extreme weather that's likely to get worse

the 12 year irreversible change towards human extinction science reports for example are going to start to make civillians more desperate etc and so on this will cause issues within countries that will likely ripple outward on a larger scale

expecting stability to continue just based on fear in an increasingly unstable condition doesn't quite make sense to me given all the factors and the fact that past a certain point fear motivates action rather than prevents it

there's signs of economic collapse in a lot of places across the board projected within a time frame that isn't too far off, which will provide more war incentive not less ultimately


If your thinking from a Citizen Revolution rise up, fine. We are seeing that at the very moment but if you think its going to go beyond that..bs.

All you have mentioned is essentially citizens unrest.

Protesters will be supressed by there goverments...hopefully peacefully but not likely.

The most impact climate change will have is on the cost of produce, the growth of crops will be affected which means certain fruits,vegatables and cocca will increase in cost ...but still there will be no conflict over it just bitterness over the people that want to belive in climate change vs the deniers.

Again.. look at all the conflicts that have occured after the second world war, none were big global conflicts...no global war that left everyone devistated.

If the cold war between Russia and the US and its allies never happened..then the likelyhood of a conflict is nill.

As I stated in my orginal post you'll get regional conflicts but no global war...just an economic trade war.

I hope your not an anachronist, I draw similarites to the Y2K and even 2012 scare which never happened.

One should not worry about things that may not happened but rather prepare in case such an event should occur. Then carry on with there lives and try to be the best person they can at the moment.

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mirage29
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posted December 17, 2018 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

a text message might work better

That 'alert system' has been tested here in US, October 3, 2018.
- http://www.cnet.com/news/trump-can-text-every-phone-in-the-us-will-test-pr esidential-alert-on-oct-3/

Grizzly, surreal.

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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualGemV2:
If your thinking from a Citizen Revolution rise up, fine. We are seeing that at the very moment but if you think its going to go beyond that..bs.

All you have mentioned is essentially citizens unrest.

Protesters will be supressed by there goverments...hopefully peacefully but not likely.

The most impact climate change will have is on the cost of produce, the growth of crops will be affected which means certain fruits,vegatables and cocca will increase in cost ...but still there will be no conflict over it just bitterness over the people that want to belive in climate change vs the deniers.

Again.. look at all the conflicts that have occured after the second world war, none were big global conflicts...no global war that left everyone devistated.

If the cold war between Russia and the US and its allies never happened..then the likelyhood of a conflict is nill.

As I stated in my orginal post you'll get regional conflicts but no global war...just an economic trade war.

I hope your not an anachronist, I draw similarites to the Y2K and even 2012 scare which never happened.

One should not worry about things that may not happened but rather prepare in case such an event should occur. Then carry on with there lives and try to be the best person they can at the moment.

my Planets
=========================================
☉ ♊, ☽ ♈, ASC ♑, ☿ ♊, ♉, ♋ , ♃ ♒, ♄ ♏, ♅ ♐, ♆ ♑


unrest when taken to extremes becomes something else entirely when it reaches a tipping point

you're talking as if endless tension has ever existed with nothing that pushes past or if that sort of thing can build on infinitely with no issues which is illogical to say the least

throughout history there have been cycles, and what you're looking at is a climate building that's ripe for war of many types

internal conflicts among citizens affect nations

protestors being suppressed is standard sure, typically violently, and sure people will keep going out and doing **** that doesn't work because it's what theyre taught is effective (voting, protesting, petitions etc) but there's only so much suppression people can take

issue is comforts, when people cant have those comforts to distract them they'll be more restless

i mention global warming because the very weight of the idea has a psychological effect on the masses which will play out, also growing cost of food will add more fuel to the fire

you can't inevitably pile things on with no real balance and not expect some kind of collapse

this isn't y2k or 2012 **** , i'm not a prepper, i'm not even worried

as a matter of fact if i saw a decent amount of proper civil unrest i'd find it pretty exciting, i long to see that i want to see it

do i have high expectations of people? so far no, but i also recognize that based on history the climate for proper **** to go down just isnt here yet

in a few years though i can see some pretty good opportunities coming up for that sort of thing

most of ww2 didnt touch american soil, lot of wars dont happen on the soil of some of the biggest players

though it would be foolish to think that can't or wouldnt happen as tension builds

increased tension puts increased pressure, economic fallout affects people and countries you don't get that indefinitely with not much else

controlled chaos isnt a thing longterm

edit: i always go about my life as usual, that's the only way you can when things are relatively stable with no catalyst for change to latch onto in sight or before anything happens

btw

just because something doesn't happen the first time, or the second, third and so on doesn't mean that's what you get every time

statistically unlikely for things to go on like that

does that mean you or i will necessarily live to see it? of course not, doesn't mean that nothing will get shaken up though

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Dumuzi
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posted December 17, 2018 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
That 'alert system' has been tested here in US, October 3, 2018.
- http://www.cnet.com/news/trump-can-text-every-phone-in-the-us-will-test-pr esidential-alert-on-oct-3/

Grizzly, surreal.


that's what i was referring to yeah, one of those but like "hey guys it's ww3" instead of just being a test

more people look at their phones than at news, not that mainstream media is worth watching for news other than to compare it to multiple outside sources both independent and backed by other countries etc but you get me

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mirage29
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posted December 17, 2018 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..

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DualGemV2
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posted December 18, 2018 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:
unrest when taken to extremes becomes something else entirely when it reaches a tipping point

you're talking as if endless tension has ever existed with nothing that pushes past or if that sort of thing can build on infinitely with no issues which is illogical to say the least

throughout history there have been cycles, and what you're looking at is a climate building that's ripe for war of many types

internal conflicts among citizens affect nations....


Your illogical to think that when people rise up it actually creates a good thing.

The Cuban revolution didn't do as much as people believed it sank the Cuban Economy into debt..it only made everyone equal which is everyone is now poor.

citizen unrest dies out when the group becomes dived based on there original vision or a power vacuum in the group develops..the black lives matter is a recent example there vision got distorted and the movement died out.

Besides it the leaders that bring there nations into war, not its people. Even if its people don't agree. Vietnam as an example and in some rare cases..avoid a conflict..

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

i mention global warming because the very weight of the idea has a psychological effect on the masses which will play out, also growing cost of food will add more fuel to the fire

Again some people don't even believe global warming so there is no psychology effect simple because some people don't want to believe it.. it can't effect you if you don't believe it.

Do you think a house that is haunted would effect someone who doesn't believe in ghosts the same as someone that does?.

Please don't try to take credit for a point I made. I'm the one that pointed to food costs increasing because of difficulty to raising crops as a result of climate change..don't try to add it as your point.

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

as a matter of fact if i saw a decent amount of proper civil unrest i'd find it pretty exciting, i long to see that i want to see it


So you are an anarchist? In one post you post about wanting to people to rise up for the better.

But here you quote yourself having fun with bring down a system for fun?

If anyone is unfamiliar with what an anarchist is its someone that brings a structured society down to point that its statelessness with no central government think of Somali.

Anyway I think we gone beyond the point of this thread.

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Dumuzi
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posted December 18, 2018 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualGemV2:

better to keep the status quo and suffer than try to fix something and possibly fail? that makes no sense

if there is a chance for better then that's what people should strive for

like you said a good deal of the issue is the governments not the people (though governments have as much power as their citizens allow ultimately)

sure there are periods of terrible instability after revolts, that's natural i'm not sure why that means falling in line is the better option to you

if the current system is terrible temporary disorder (because disorder is always temporary people have away of eventually falling back in line to something new) for quick change is part of the price

sometimes slow changes are ineffective on a grand scale and serve as nothing more than pacification tools for people to keep them under rule

but of course that doesn't mean exchanges of power are peaceful or smooth, typically the opposite and i never claimed otherwise

does that make them not worthwhile? not in my opinion

also the debt created by the cuban revolution is more compmicated than you're making it, and isn't just about the government that was installed it runs deeper and there's a lot of factors

of course unrest can die out due to division, that's the entire point in using divide and conquer tactics when in power

black lives matter died out because it was largely poorly organized and ineffective, which is a lot of current movements because you have people who have been comfortable their entire lives going out and being scared to really do anything and all attenpts are typically poorly thought out

does that mean every movement will fail or have the same issues? no, because that's not how things work everything isnt a carbon copy and the current system isnt somehow infallible

people allow their governments power over them and power over other people in the case of civillians dying in foreign wars and militarization of our own police even these things happen slowly in plain sight and people do nothing but allow it and (like you) even encourage obedience to broken corrupt systems

people are responsible for keeping a balance in power, without one their governments can crush them too easily which is the problem youre seeing now

you don't need to believe in something to be affected by it if it exists, so that's a little ridiculous to pretend otherwise

but the disbelief in climate control on one side coupled with the strong beliefs on the other is actually a cause for more friction not less

you think people who are scared and do believe are going to keep ignoring deniers and vice versa as they get more scared?

highly unlikely, if anything it will just add to people lashing out at each other

the psychological effects i was speaking about were on a larger social level and have nothing to do with someone adopting an "out of sight out of mind" mentality

if a house is truly haunted i would imagine it'd make a nonbeliever notice just as easily as a believer who wasnt scared of their own shadow

i wasn't taking credit for a point you made, anyone following the conversation would see i responded to you and expanded on your point

frequently that sort of thing happens in conversations, so yeah... not sure how you expect a back and forth without any expansion of your points

like i said food costs rising due to that sort of thing (among other issues) would only increase not decrease problems

every little thing has an effect when you bring it out into the larger workd

take a ripple in water, watch it spread, the area it touches is never limited to the spot it originated

that's all i was pointing out about what you said, it's another problem tacked onto more problems

i do want to rise up for the better, which would involve displacing the current system entirely in what would likely be a way that had a fairly high but ultimately worthwhile price

that has nothing to do with personal philosiohy or political views it's just the situation

current system would have to be destroyed for major changes to happen, that destruction could come from anywhere has nothing to do with anarchy just the nature of power and exchange

throughout history this happens regardless of what's replacing the system

i also think human nature doesnt allow for anarchy because x amount of people will always want to be led and y amount of people will always want to rule and it's impossible to keep them from finding each other

change can bring growth in other directions however, and yeah i would take joy in seeing that sort of thing happen

but of course it doesn't come free, but even keeping the current systems has a price it's just taken from people in ways theyre used to and increasing slow enough for them to not notice

you ever steal something a little at a time? take something in ways people dont notice over an extended period of time and then their full disappearance often goes unnoticed

that isnt what an anarchist is entirely btw you're twisting it, but any revolution to any form of government that doesnt keep the status quo would break the system and that doesnt anarchy would be the goal

anarchists do believe in not having a centralized small group of people ruling over them and the masses sure

but as that doesnt exist in a vacuum you end up with a large variey of issues

talking about somalia makes no sense really as the social issues there run very deep and are being fueled by outside forces

it is not an example of what anarchy as a philosophy actually represents

also like i said, x amount of poeople want to folllow y amount want to rule, anarchy isnt a lasting system so much as it is a transitional phase typically when it exists outside of the realm of philosphy

if you notice i havent discussed my political views at all, because theyre irrelevant to the situation

ideals only matter when there's a possibility of achieving them, when no one has any possibility of getting what they see as proper and instead everyone is subject to the whims of those in power all ideals do is unnecessarily divide based on fantasy

why wouldnt i delight in the destruction of something i disagree with when it being gone leaves room for something else? i mean nothing lasts forever power always goes corrupt, which is why people should always be ready and willing to balance that out

enjoyment doesnt cancel out purpose

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astri
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posted December 18, 2018 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for astri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With Chiron in Aries, I think we will see more violent protests (it's already started) and perhaps some assasinations of political leaders.

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Queen Salome
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posted December 18, 2018 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Queen Salome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto conjunction in Capricorn squared by Mars that will happen in the second half of 2020? Except possible general effect, it will rock mega-Capricorn generation of the late 80's and the early 90's.
Is there any other period that you think may mean tough and revolutionary times? In astrological terms.

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DualGemV2
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posted December 18, 2018 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:
better to keep the status quo and suffer than try to fix something and possibly fail? that makes no sense

if there is a chance for better then that's what people should strive for

like you said a good deal of the issue is the governments not the people (though governments have as much power as their citizens allow ultimately)

sure there are periods of terrible instability after revolts, that's natural i'm not sure why that means falling in line is the better option to you

if the current system is terrible temporary disorder (because disorder is always temporary people have away of eventually falling back in line to something new) for quick change is part of the price

sometimes slow changes are ineffective on a grand scale and serve as nothing more than pacification tools for people to keep them under rule

but of course that doesn't mean exchanges of power are peaceful or smooth, typically the opposite and i never claimed otherwise

does that make them not worthwhile? not in my opinion


The system we have right now is no better or worse then the system that will replace it and we will eventually go back to what we was previous.

Its taken centuries for society to develop to were we are now. If a system was way better then what we have know it would take a much longer time to develop then an overnight change.

Your thinking is that we can replace what we have now overnight into a perfect utopian society.

That will never happen there will always be some kind of inequality.. human kind has been trying to develop a system that works this is as far as we've gotten.

For the expectation of Russia, all the former Communist states that have denounced a capitalist society have started to become capitalist themselves.

I mean China isn't even communist anymore but they would make the claim that it is. Vietnam and Cuba have started to open there doors because the system they attempted just doesn't work.

Any student of socialist or believer of socialism will make the argument were developing or on our way to becoming a Utopian society..they've been saying that for the last century and will continue to say that.

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

..of course unrest can die out due to division, that's the entire point in using divide and conquer tactics when in power

black lives matter died out because it was largely poorly organized and ineffective, which is a lot of current movements because you have people who have been comfortable their entire lives going out and being scared to really do anything and all attenpts are typically poorly thought out

does that mean every movement will fail or have the same issues? no, because that's not how things work everything isnt a carbon copy and the current system isnt somehow infallible

people allow their governments power over them and power over other people in the case of civillians dying in foreign wars and militarization of our own police even these things happen slowly in plain sight and people do nothing but allow it and (like you) even encourage obedience to broken corrupt systems

people are responsible for keeping a balance in power, without one their governments can crush them too easily which is the problem youre seeing now

you don't need to believe in something to be affected by it if it exists, so that's a little ridiculous to pretend otherwise


Only if the movement has any solid foundation and there actually is a system to replace it will it happen.

What your seeing is ragtag bands of people rising up, not influential people that have the power.

If you look at the Yellow Shirt protest in France they are pretty much the white, working class and trying to defend there way of life.

I'm no were close to being rich but I'm no were close to what the Yellow Shirt protest is either.

Poverty is caused by the life choices we make and how determined we are to get out of poverty and turn are lives around, not going on the street and rioting.

Ever read the book rich dad poor dad? That book is all about life choices and how two people with the same means..yet one becomes better of then the other because of simple choices they make.

For that reason it will fail because they don't have a sold plan and any logical non idealistic person will just see them as a angry rebel.

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

but the disbelief in climate control on one side coupled with the strong beliefs on the other is actually a cause for more friction not less

you think people who are scared and do believe are going to keep ignoring deniers and vice versa as they get more scared?

highly unlikely, if anything it will just add to people lashing out at each other

the psychological effects i was speaking about were on a larger social level and have nothing to do with someone adopting an "out of sight out of mind" mentality

if a house is truly haunted i would imagine it'd make a nonbeliever notice just as easily as a believer who wasnt scared of their own shadow


If you reread my post I never said anyone was scared and said the deniers wouldn't believe it. They will lash out over whether or not exists..but will do no action to correct it.

Anyway we could go over this until after new years and the once the thread reaches...500 replies. The fact is your is to idealistic and not realistic.

You've turn this thread into something out of a youetube comment.

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Lalafortunaea
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posted December 18, 2018 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lalafortunaea     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tend to think that a lot of the war we are experiencing now is an information war.

I think it (the idea of WW3) only matters to people when it reaches a critical mass to the point that we can't not notice it. But everything already has or is happening on a more hidden, insidious scale.

So I really do think that it's mainly about something being so painstakingly obvious that it can't be hushed up and down played.

IMO WW3 has been happening for a long time.

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:

more people look at their phones than at news, not that mainstream media is worth watching for news other than to compare it to multiple outside sources both independent and backed by other countries etc but you get me

Yeah, agreed. I don't think mainstream news is so dependable. Mostly just tells people what to think and when to think it.

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DualGemV2
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posted December 18, 2018 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
... Yeah, agreed. I don't think mainstream news is so dependable. Mostly just tells people what to think and when to think it.

Good for you Lalafortunaea,

I'm glad you can make a solid choice on what to believe and listen to. I'd like to believe that reasonable people choose and filter out what makes sense and doesn't.

Plus most people have moved towards digital streaming boxes, rather then traditional cable news so they have more control on what they want to hear.

RT is completely funded by the Russian government so its obvious what message they want to portray.

There are other networks in North America that also have there own agendas, but I won't list then. I don't want to end up getting dragged into 3 debates.

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Dumuzi
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posted December 18, 2018 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualGemV2:
If you reread my post I never said anyone was scared and said the deniers wouldn't believe it. They will lash out over whether or not exists..but will do no action to correct it.

Anyway we could go over this until after new years and the once the thread reaches...500 replies. The fact is your is to idealistic and not realistic.

You've turn this thread into something out of a youetube comment.

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i don't think you're actually reading what i'm saying, and if you are you don't seem to be comprehending it

as a matter of fact i said that i think power over time always becomes corrupt and needs to be shaken up again because you can get good periods after the chaos that initially follows

acknowledging that chaos and destruction are part of the equation isn't idealistic and doesn't really say anything about utopian ideals happening overnight (utopias are impossibilities anyway)

society developing for centuries into this is no reason to keep it going, and it taking time to develop afterwards is no reason to avoid massive change

of course it will slowly develop, that's part of the process

i never said anything about overnight improvement

opposite actually i said a focus on quick destruction will have massive consequences but get the job done with being able to rebuild being a possibility from there

whereas slow change gives time for more chains and obstacles to continue to decrease the power of the individual

there's no idealism there, no utopia

so what you're responding to isn't even what i said

i never claimed inequality could be erased either, of course it will always exist people aren't equal

you're projecting imaginary views that i don't have into this conversation and arguing those rather than points i've made

russia is capitalist now, you realize that right?

but again failure is better than doing nothing when there's an issue

better to fail or die than stand by doing nothing in the longterm and encouraging others to do nothing as well

i wasnt even talking about instilling communism though so your point isn't one

also it's hard to succeed longterm when outside pressures make systems hard to maintain

it's not a vacuum each country affects the other

history has proven nothing lasts forever, that's ultimately reality

all systems and empires have their downfall

again i said other people's ideals and my own are irrelevant to the discussion as such communism and utopias etc have nothing to do with anything here

are you actually reading what i say?

i said already none of the movements now are any good, and called them all useless so you're only backing up that point not telling me anything new

ive said none of them are impressive, called them poorly organized, and said they make senseless decisions and calls that are clearly ineffective

no **** a movement would have to be solid to work

all i said was just because the current movements have been failures doesnt mean all future ones would be

poverty is caused by many factors not just the individual living in it, it's ignorant to think that you and everyone else exists in a vacuum where economy doesnt affect them whatsoever

also i think poverty isn't as much of an issue as other things are so i'm not sure why you're focusing on that since i never claimed that or said it was a valid reason to riot

i also dont think the riots even have much of a point because they're not effective they mean as much as waving signs because theyre people flailing

like i said people are just learning though, too many comforts makes people weak so they flail needlessly til they learn strength

one book doesnt illustrate the complexities of life and books are subject to the perspectives of their authors which are subject to the same flaws all opinions have of potentially being wrong

again i said all current movements will fail, so i'm not at all being idealistic about what i see as cannon fodder creating a climate where something more interesting can follow

i said it would create fear not you, fear in people who do believe and then anger at people who don't and so on

i said friction created will cause a ripple effect in the unrest

again i'm saying small things add up to eventual larger things over time

boiling point

this only sounds like something you would roll your eyes out on youtube because you arent actually reading anything i say, just skimming and then responding to things that you've made up

maybe actually reading might change that? who knows? i cant tell

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Dumuzi
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posted December 18, 2018 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
I tend to think that a lot of the war we are experiencing now is an information war.

I think it (the idea of WW3) only matters to people when it reaches a critical mass to the point that we can't not notice it. But everything already has or is happening on a more hidden, insidious scale.

So I really do think that it's mainly about something being so painstakingly obvious that it can't be hushed up and down played.

IMO WW3 has been happening for a long time.

Yeah, agreed. I don't think mainstream news is so dependable. Mostly just tells people what to think and when to think it.


agreed it has been happening, but people don't follow it and since it isnt called that (in spite of ww1 and ww2 only being called world wars after they were over) no one's saying it is

but yeah something absolutely devestating that we're not used to just seeing im the background would need to happen for people to acknowledge it

yeah exactly, and all media is bias which is why you have to dig through so many sources for the common points void of opinion

the grains of truth are in the details that multiple perspectives share whether or not their incentives are clearly different

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DualGemV2
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From: Toronto, Ontario
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posted December 18, 2018 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:
...
russia is capitalist now, you realize that right?


Putin is taking control to take Russia back to communism.

He wants to make Russian great again, only way how is back to communism. So no its not exactly capitalist..the "shock therapy" approach to there economy when the Soviet Union collapsed didn't work and many Russians prefer to go back to communism.

quote:
Originally posted by Dumuzi:
..
maybe actually reading might change that? who knows? i cant tell


I don't think your following what I'm trying to explain. Until you agreed to some of my points in the previous post.

Out of fairness. Perhaps we have some similar ideas..just both of us presented it differently.

Ironic because conflicts are caused because of miscommunications and this thread is all about the potential of a global conflict.

My initial point was a global conflict won't happen...at least not in the traditional sense.

I'm willing to bet the next attack from Russia will be an economic attack.

Putin knows the West is in debt so he will try to destabilize the Western economy..again not a traditional war.

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Dumuzi
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posted December 18, 2018 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dumuzi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualGemV2:
I don't think your following what I'm trying to explain. Until you agreed to some of my points in the previous post.

Out of fairness. Perhaps we have some similar ideas..just both of us presented it differently.

Ironic because conflicts are caused because of miscommunications and this thread is all about the potential of a global conflict.

My initial point was a global conflict won't happen...at least not in the traditional sense.

I'm willing to bet the next attack from Russia will be an economic attack.

Putin knows the West is in debt so he will try to destabilize the Western economy..again not a traditional war.

my Planets
=========================================
☉ ♊, ☽ ♈, ASC ♑, ☿ ♊, ♉, ♋ , ♃ ♒, ♄ ♏, ♅ ♐, ♆ ♑


intent to return isn't the same as being there already, russia is currently capitalist and has operated that way for quite a while

yes the next attacks will be economic, sanctions and so on with threats, that's expected

but that can't continue forever or indefinitely

pressure causes collapse or explosions, collapse and explosions can be catalysts for major change

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DRVM614K
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Posts: 44
From: Columbus, Ohio, US
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posted December 19, 2018 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DRVM614K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astrologically speaking it will happen when saturn conjuncts pluto if not then itll happen when the people born with that aspect mature

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