posted December 19, 2018 05:57 PM            

Jupiter may be the explanation, particularly its aspect to other planets.

Are you certain the correct rising sign is over the Asc? I don't mean do you have a recorded birth time. I mean do you really line up with the sign and aspects of the Asc? That can change everything in terms of house positions.

Also the Moon and its aspects can influence the desire to travel and how you relate to home.

Read my rising sign descriptions to compare:
https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/rising-signs/

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"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts

posted December 19, 2018 06:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The 4th house is private life, not necessarily just indicating staying at home or preferring it.

Jupiter may be the explanation, particularly its aspect to other planets.

Are you certain the correct rising sign is over the Asc? I don't mean do you have a recorded birth time. I mean do you really line up with the sign and aspects of the Asc? That can change everything in terms of house positions.

Also the Moon and its aspects can influence the desire to travel and how you relate to home.

Read my rising sign descriptions to compare:
https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/rising-signs/

---

posted December 19, 2018 07:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Well you have to remember that if the planets are conj the IC from the 4th house, then they are opp the MC and possibly aspect the ASC/DSC so then you will naturally feel a push and pull in these areas.

If they are just in the 4th and not conj the IC, well that is a weird phenomenon indeed. What's your 4th house ruler and what's in it?

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4th House ruler is Venus and it's in the 9th. sun is also in the 9th

posted December 19, 2018 08:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:

4th House ruler is Venus and it's in the 9th. sun is also in the 9th

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posted December 19, 2018 08:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Well that makes sense now! 9th house IC

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posted December 20, 2018 12:41 AM            

The 4th,8th and 12th house are very deep. They often emphasize interest in the self and self exploration than being an armchair critic in the comings and goings of what's happening in the world(9th,3rd and 11th do all that)

The Ic is the inner world or inner eye. And though it may not necessarily mean that one is a homebody. The planets within it do tend to emphasize that inner drives, inner awareness and inner exploration is important.

So since the inner world.is mostly found when in a quiet unperturbed atmosphere etc. The home is often known to be where one has this sense of peace(barring Uranus/Pluto/Mars aspects). So that is why people often associate home with the Ic.

But its not literal "home" as in bricks and mortar in every case (that is more 2nd house of possessions ),but it is the feeling of being at ease and allowing the mind to deeply explore. As if in a contemplative/meditative state. And that is mostly possible when one feels relaxed and "at home".

Pluto in 4th could be indicative of a violent early home. Or a parent(particularly Dad) that was controlling. This may have disturbed or undermined the sense of peace for mind exploration or contemplation of the self.

So here one may have had to grow up quickly and learn self-reliance in a very indelicate way.As Pluto in this house exposed one to the ugliness of life and perhaps even brutality.

One had to learn to manage enormous feelings of resentment ,rage and contempt that were either thrown their direction or were part in parcel of the environment they were exposed to etc. That the native eventually internalized.

So as one grows up, these violent feelings become part in parcel of one's personality I.e rage is very much a part of their makeup and it is through exploring and expressing intense feelings that one finds their sense of peace.

Jupiter in the 4th is indicative of learning ,exploration or travel being part in parcel of how one grew up. In that the learning of all that surrounds and is furthest from them helps one to make sense of not only the world. But their role and place in it etc.

So perhaps there is spirituality or philosophy that helped to frame both the nonsensical and profundities of living. But this is not done purely for cerebral purposes but it reflected back (always) to the self and always within the questioning of "what does all this mean for me?"

So here one grows up to see themselves as a philosopher and internal "explorer".Always trying to make sense of what is happening within and relaying that with what is outside of them etc.

Saturn in 4th is order,structure, discipline ,restraint and work. It sets a very serious and sober effect on each house that it is placed.

Here one or both parents nay have emphasized the value of hard work or brought work home. There could have been rules/regulations that were followed or a strict regiment that one had to adhere to that was emphasized by one or both parents (usually orthodox religion, culture or corporal punishment for errors etc).

Again ofcourse, this means that Saturn in the 4th means that the native started to see discipline, order, precision, perfecting the process and work as very much a part of who they are and reflective of their inner self.

So in regiments,formality and strict adherence rules and regulations, they find their own sense of purpose in life , make sense of what their role in life is and inner peace etc. Often they become the authority or disciplinarian in others view.

Where is your Moon?

With Sun in 9th(like me). This suggests that that one's identity or sense of self(Sun) is tied into travelling or finding out what is happening out there in the world.

It is through travelling or settling far from the birthplace (9th) that one comes into ones own sense of self(Sun) and who they really are. So living in a foreign country is likely. Even permanently.

If the Sun is in Leo/Arie/Scorpio, the experience of travelling or living far from their birthplace has a profound personal effect on them.

If Sun is in Cancer,Libra or Pisces, the reasons could be tied into romance, a partner or some romantic outlook i.e marriage to a foreigner or some partnership oriented reason forms part of that parcel of packing house and going far from their birthplace or abroad.

If Sun is in Taurus/Cap or Virgo, the reasons could be work related or economical. The permanency related more to job prospects or how attractive employment or business prospects are etc. Money(especially when in Taurus and to some extent Cancer too) rules reasons as to why one would go overseas or live very far from home.

If Sun is in Gem/Sag/Aqua,the native will continue to do mind exploration of the new places and foreign land. Contrasting and comparing one from the other(especially homeland).

posted December 20, 2018 03:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Yes but your 4th house/IC ruler is in the 9th, that is what I'm saying makes sense. You enjoy your peace and solitude with you and your emotions (4th house planets) but you also desire the need to pack up and move around frequently and enjoy the world around you (4th house ruler in 9th) to the fullest. Your immediate surroundings get boring quickly, they could even give you anxiety or jittery nature if you are stuck in one comfortable living arrangement for too long. Saturn is saying something stagnant or restricting about the original arrangements, it makes you feel less free and less stable but, paradoxically, builds up a stable outlook in these aspects of life. Jupiter gives you the need to want to build comfortable living arrangements in all travels and explorations, Pluto there can say you experience life transforming events in your most comfortable living arrangements, which, in your case, could occur in living arrangements abroad or with foreign people since your 4th house ruler is in the 9th.

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The IC (the cusp) is still in Virgo though. The planets are in libra. That's why I said that they are "just in the 4th and not on the IC.

And yes, I did move around a lot, also because I got bored of those places! And yes I love to travel but ideally I would love to stay in nice, comfortable surroundings, like 4 star hotels, which is not always possible haha.

posted December 20, 2018 03:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I have FIVEE LOLL!! and I ain't a homebody either. I used to joke around that if I was a chick i'd have massive t!ts , 4th rules that right? the nurturing part lol

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posted December 20, 2018 04:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Saturn,Pluto and Jupiter in 4th suggests that you contemplate and introspect a lot.

The 4th,8th and 12th house are very deep. They often emphasize interest in the self and self exploration than being an armchair critic in the comings and goings of what's happening in the world(9th,3rd and 11th do all that)

The Ic is the inner world or inner eye. And though it may not necessarily mean that one is a homebody. The planets within it do tend to emphasize that inner drives, inner awareness and inner exploration is important.

So since the inner world.is mostly found when in a quiet unperturbed atmosphere etc. The home is often known to be where one has this sense of peace(barring Uranus/Pluto/Mars aspects). So that is why people often associate home with the Ic.

But its not literal "home" as in bricks and mortar in every case (that is more 2nd house of possessions ),but it is the feeling of being at ease and allowing the mind to deeply explore. As if in a contemplative/meditative state. And that is mostly possible when one feels relaxed and "at home".

Pluto in 4th could be indicative of a violent early home. Or a parent(particularly Dad) that was controlling. This may have disturbed or undermined the sense of peace for mind exploration or contemplation of the self.

So here one may have had to grow up quickly and learn self-reliance in a very indelicate way.As Pluto in this house exposed one to the ugliness of life and perhaps even brutality.

One had to learn to manage enormous feelings of resentment ,rage and contempt that were either thrown their direction or were part in parcel of the environment they were exposed to etc. That the native eventually internalized.

So as one grows up, these violent feelings become part in parcel of one's personality I.e rage is very much a part of their makeup and it is through exploring and expressing intense feelings that one finds their sense of peace.

Jupiter in the 4th is indicative of learning ,exploration or travel being part in parcel of how one grew up. In that the learning of all that surrounds and is furthest from them helps one to make sense of not only the world. But their role and place in it etc.

So perhaps there is spirituality or philosophy that helped to frame both the nonsensical and profundities of living. But this is not done purely for cerebral purposes but it reflected back (always) to the self and always within the questioning of "what does all this mean for me?"

So here one grows up to see themselves as a philosopher and internal "explorer".Always trying to make sense of what is happening within and relaying that with what is outside of them etc.

Saturn in 4th is order,structure, discipline ,restraint and work. It sets a very serious and sober effect on each house that it is placed.

Here one or both parents nay have emphasized the value of hard work or brought work home. There could have been rules/regulations that were followed or a strict regiment that one had to adhere to that was emphasized by one or both parents (usually orthodox religion, culture or corporal punishment for errors etc).

Again ofcourse, this means that Saturn in the 4th means that the native started to see discipline, order, precision, perfecting the process and work as very much a part of who they are and reflective of their inner self.

So in regiments,formality and strict adherence rules and regulations, they find their own sense of purpose in life , make sense of what their role in life is and inner peace etc. Often they become the authority or disciplinarian in others view.

Where is your Moon?

With Sun in 9th(like me). This suggests that that one's identity or sense of self(Sun) is tied into travelling or finding out what is happening out there in the world.

It is through travelling or settling far from the birthplace (9th) that one comes into ones own sense of self(Sun) and who they really are. So living in a foreign country is likely. Even permanently.

If the Sun is in Leo/Arie/Scorpio, the experience of travelling or living far from their birthplace has a profound personal effect on them.

If Sun is in Cancer,Libra or Pisces, the reasons could be tied into romance, a partner or some romantic outlook i.e marriage to a foreigner or some partnership oriented reason forms part of that parcel of packing house and going far from their birthplace or abroad.

If Sun is in Taurus/Cap or Virgo, the reasons could be work related or economical. The permanency related more to job prospects or how attractive employment or business prospects are etc. Money(especially when in Taurus and to some extent Cancer too) rules reasons as to why one would go overseas or live very far from home.

If Sun is in Gem/Sag/Aqua,the native will continue to do mind exploration of the new places and foreign land. Contrasting and comparing one from the other(especially homeland).

The reasons for moving far from home are purely academic(to study in a foreign land) or for mind exploration(expand their mind further from what they are accustomed to )

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Wow, wow, wow. That was so spot on! Yes I am very introspective. Spiritual and philosphical and what it all means to me is definitely part of my make up. I was beaten up when I was growing up with an unpredictable father who could explode (unprovoked) any second. Definitely internalized rage, anger and all that. Took me to go through the dark night (what I posted in an earlier comment) to deal with that and become healed and more balanced. I also feel that I have found a home within myself because the surroundings I grew up weren't safe for me. It feels like a relief now.
Saturn in 4th: yes discipline and structure in a way, some really weird rules, but my father wanted to come across as authoritarian (which he isn't naturally though). Punishment (like beatings) was likely if not followed.

My father's Pluto is on my South Node. Do you have any idea what that could mean?

My moon is in the first by the way. Sun in Pisces and yes I moved and lived abroad, but not out of romantic reasons, but higher education. I doubt I'd ever move somewehere just out of romantic reasons to be honest.

posted December 20, 2018 05:22 AM            

So with Pluto on the SN. There is much passion, much intensity of feeling within the native. But now the problem becomes managing the intensity towards a productive end. Your father didn't

If he had directed that willfulness and strength of purpose to things outside the home I.e career or business ventures etc. He would have moved mountains.

Your Sun in Pisces is in the 9th. So there is education (9th) connected to living abroad. Jupiter also rules Pisces(I forget that)

I was really drawn to a University in the Caribbean Islands because it was close to the sea(Neptune/Sun in 9th). I may have idealised the idea of studying in a foreign country and romanticize the experience.

That is also what I think I meant by "romanticism". In that Jupiter influences make it laden with all sorts of hopes and dreams that may border on the unrealistic.

posted December 20, 2018 06:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I think of the North/South node as similar in axis relations between Asc/DSC and Mc/Ic .

So with Pluto on the SN. There is much passion, much intensity of feeling within the native. But now the problem becomes managing the intensity towards a productive end. Your father didn't

If he had directed that willfulness and strength of purpose to things outside the home I.e career or business ventures etc. He would have moved mountains.

Your Sun in Pisces is in the 9th. So there is education (9th) connected to living abroad. Jupiter also rules Pisces(I forget that)

I was really drawn to a University in the Caribbean Islands because it was close to the sea(Neptune/Sun in 9th). I may have idealised the idea of studying in a foreign country and romanticize the experience.

That is also what I think I meant by "romanticism". In that Jupiter influences make it laden with all sorts of hopes and dreams that may border on the unrealistic.

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Hi Aries,

posted December 20, 2018 10:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Hi Aries,

my father's Pluto is on my South Node, not on his own. I was wondering if that contributed to his behaviour towards me..

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Hmmm...I think so.

I would look at his Sun/Moon and Mars first though.Say if Mars is on the Sun/Moon midpoint or Uranus is there in aspect with Sun/Moon for example. There could be an inherent temperemental nature that is there. Its just that you(as his family member)are in the firing line.

So your own placements could make you sensitive to his own or reactive to them i.e since his Pluto sits on your South Node for instance. He could stir up the angry/resentful part of you that you wish to mitigate or bring to balance with the North node.

But I would look for even closer ties to your Sun/Moon or Mars. Like if your Sun is square his Mars, you may feel physically(Sun) threatened(square Mars) by him.

I have Mars/Moon/Mercury T-square for example. So any planet in another's chart that reacts with it, will get an emotional response from me. Especially if the planet is aggravating like Mars/Uranus or Pluto.

Interestingly, my Dad's North node in Libra conjunct my Mars & I felt very threatened by him growing up. It reacted with my natal T-square.

But he was already really insecure as a person. Since Chiron in Aqua opposes his Mars/Pluto conjunction in Leo. So he always felt like he had something to prove. Even to his family.

I always see chiron on Mars/Saturn or Pluto in someones chart as suggestive of a feeling of inadequacy.So there's usually overcompensation with the use of force,violence and aggression Especially in men.

With women, there is a tendency to be very competitive with the opposite sex and "do things better than a man" etc.Sometimes even resenting being a woman because of living in a society that holds women back.

posted December 20, 2018 11:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Hmmm...I think so.

I would look at his Sun/Moon and Mars first though.Say if Mars is on the Sun/Moon midpoint or Uranus is there in aspect with Sun/Moon for example. There could be an inherent temperemental nature that is there. Its just that you(as his family member)are in the firing line.

So your own placements could make you sensitive to his own or reactive to them i.e since his Pluto sits on your South Node for instance. He could stir up the angry/resentful part of you that you wish to mitigate or bring to balance with the North node.

But I would look for even closer ties to your Sun/Moon or Mars. Like if your Sun is square his Mars, you may feel physically(Sun) threatened(square Mars) by him.

I have Mars/Moon/Mercury T-square for example. So any planet in another's chart that reacts with it, will get an emotional response from me. Especially if the planet is aggravating like Mars/Uranus or Pluto.

Interestingly, my Dad's North node in Libra conjunct my Mars & I felt very threatened by him growing up. It reacted with my natal T-square.

But he was already really insecure as a person. Since Chiron in Aqua opposes his Mars/Pluto conjunction in Leo. So he always felt like he had something to prove. Even to his family.

I always see chiron on Mars/Saturn or Pluto in someones chart as suggestive of a feeling of inadequacy.So there's usually overcompensation with the use of force,violence and aggression Especially in men.

With women, there is a tendency to be very competitive with the opposite sex and "do things better than a man" etc.Sometimes even resenting being a woman because of living in a society that holds women back.

Hillary Clinton has Chiron in Scorpio square her Mars/Pluto in Leo. Can you say "lady with balls of steel"?

---

Oh he is temperamental, very insecure and very moody. I'm sure he has some untreated emotional and mental disorders. He used to have (and still has) sudden outbursts of anger, usually because other people p*ssed him off but he took it out on us, especially me. Me, because I was the oldest and the one with the biggest mouth. I also got beaten by him when I didn't provoke him. I'm also sure he projected the anger he feels for his mother (who used to overburden him with responsibility for his brothers - one of which was older than him - which led to my dad being taken advantage of by them. Not only by them). And since he's always said that I resemble his mother (which I disagree with ) I also strongly think that that is why he directed his anger especially towards me: the combination of his own issues with his mum combined with my disobedience lead to that.

My Mars is conjunct his Sun/Mars midpoint and my Sun conjuncts his Sun/moon midpoint. My mars is also on his moon/mercury midpoint.
My Mars opposes Chiron by 0,02 (closest aspect). My Pluto is also opposed his sun. Oh sorry his Pluto is conjunct my North Node, not my South Node Maybe that explains it? I am on the left

posted December 20, 2018 01:43 PM            

I have Mars on my Moon/Mercury midpoint and Mars on my Dc/square Mc. Mars trines my North node. Mars is anger. Pluto/Mars midpoint is conjunct my Asc and square Mc/Ic. Its a loooot of anger.

Its irrational, floods in quickly. All one can see is red.

posted December 20, 2018 02:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
All that Mars action is to blame. That I can assure you.

I have Mars on my Moon/Mercury midpoint and Mars on my Dc/square Mc. Mars trines my North node. Mars is anger. Pluto/Mars midpoint is conjunct my Asc and square Mc/Ic. Its a loooot of anger.

Its irrational, floods in quickly. All one can see is red.

Do u mind posting your Dad's chart? I know we are digressing here.But am very curious as he reminds me of my own.

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Yes sure. The birthtime is relatively correct, but he definitely is an Aries rising

So you reckon it's my Mars on his midpoints that made him direct his anger towards me?

posted December 20, 2018 02:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
The IC (the cusp) is still in Virgo though. The planets are in libra. That's why I said that they are "just in the 4th and not on the IC.

And yes, I did move around a lot, also because I got bored of those places! And yes I love to travel but ideally I would love to stay in nice, comfortable surroundings, like 4 star hotels, which is not always possible haha.

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posted December 20, 2018 02:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
I get what you were saying, I was just saying that it made sense that your IC ruler was in the 9th house.

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posted December 20, 2018 03:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Yes sure. The birthtime is relatively correct, but he definitely is an Aries rising.

So you reckon it's my Mars on his midpoints that made him direct his anger towards me?

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Well,first off I know its going to sound like **** . But all his anger is not really about you at all. Its not your fault in any way. Its all him.

Saturn square Neptune square Asc. That Uranus on Mars by square and Pluto sextile Uranus. Geesh!

Also on his midpoint;

Mars/Saturn midpoint= Pluto

Moon-Uranus midpoint=Sun

Mars-Uranus midpoint=Mercury

Venus-Mars midpoint=Saturn

Sun-Pluto midpoint=Mars

Sun-Neptune midpoint= Ascendant

Uranus-Pluto midpoint = Ascendant

Saturn on Ic. Neptune square Ic

Gosh there is just so much. Your father is complex. I will need a whole thread just for him lol.

But suffice it to say, it ain't your fault. He is naturally a very tense person. Lots of Pluto interaction, Uranus and Saturn.

posted December 20, 2018 03:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Hey folks,

I have Saturn, Jupiter and Pluto in the 4th but I love to roam about (mostly alone but also with someone who is a good travel buddy) and explore other places. I do love some quiet time at home as well but I am not a homebody.
Is it because it's outer planets in the 4th and no personal planets?
What do you think?
(I know the whole chart needs to be taken into account but I'm curious about this placement in particular)

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What rules your 4th house?

What aspects does your 4th house ruler make?

What house does your 4th house ruler fall in?

What is your Chart ruler?

What house does your Chart ruler Fall in?

posted December 20, 2018 03:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Well,first off I know its going to sound like **** . But all his anger is not really about you at all. Its not your fault in any way. Its all him.

Saturn square Neptune square Asc. That Uranus on Mars by square and Pluto sextile Uranus. Geesh!

Also on his midpoint;

Mars/Saturn midpoint= Pluto

Moon-Uranus midpoint=Sun

Mars-Uranus midpoint=Mercury

Venus-Mars midpoint=Saturn

Sun-Pluto midpoint=Mars

Sun-Neptune midpoint= Ascendant

Uranus-Pluto midpoint = Ascendant

Saturn on Ic. Neptune square Ic

Gosh there is just so much. Your father is complex. I will need a whole thread just for him lol.

But suffice it to say, it ain't your fault. He is naturally a very tense person. Lots of Pluto interaction, Uranus and Saturn.

It could be that he didn't know how to express them properly. Is he also an alcoholic? There is a lot of Neptune action.

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Hi Aries,