posted April 13, 2019 06:50 PM            

At minimum we have Sun conjunct Moon, so I know there is attraction.

I'm Venus at 27° Taurus

He has:

Sun at 28° Virgo
Mars at 24° Scorpio
Uranus at 26° Capricorn
Pluto at 28° Scorpio

Four planets in conversation with my Venus, yet I feel like I have to make all the moves.

True I didn't notice him in the beginning. True, he sought my attention, and draw it to himself. True, he made it clear that we should be "more than friends". Now that 'the issue is joined' I feel he's pulling back and prodding me to pursue him. I'm fine with this, I just thought that was Mars' job.

posted April 13, 2019 07:35 PM            

In my experience, one has to read the Mars clues that they leave in their wake. It could be the long eye contact, digging into private details of you a lot or asking a lot of personal and/or private stuff about you a lot etc.

Scorpio Mars can be unnervingly "focused" on you when interested. You are the only person that exists in as far as they are concerned and they want to uncover you as an archeologist(a Scorpio profession) uncovers the secrets of the earth through excavation.

I know a Scorpio Mars who is slightly squint in one eye and when he stares at me, its hard to look away. Its a very hypnotic glare. And sometimes some other Mars in Scorpio could be the type to go through your facebook,Google your name or even "collect" physical things that you own to get closer to you.

If you have seen "Twilight", I would describe Edward Cullen as a water Mars. He tries to get the "psychology" of the girl he is interested in (Bella) and pursues her using "you can trust me" tactics. In that he makes her feel that he "understands" her.

Another thing is that he likes the challenge of not knowing how to read her mind/thoughts. His obsession with her starts to be because he can't "figure" her out and she is closed to him(I suspect Scorpio Mars).

And that is the thing with Mars ruled planet in Mars-you have to maintain that air of "mystery" or be quite a challenge to figure out(the same is true of Aries). As Scorpio is a sign of psychology and solving mysteries.

So with Mars in the sign of Scorpio, one can invest energy in trying to figure you out or pre-empt your moves piously.This is especially when Mars is in aspect with Pluto(which is the case here).

Once you become "normal" / "one sided" in personality, you may kill the enthuisiasm & arousal.So keep the Mars in Scorpio guessing & always be suggestive rather than blatant. More subtle than ostentatious.

This rings true for Sun,Moon,Venus in Scorpio too. Keep the mystery going. It drives most crazy but it keeps them aroused. But it depends on their Mars sign and aspects etc.as to how they will go after you.

I have Venus in Scorpio and Mars in Libra for instance . And like Mars in Scorpio, I tend to be aroused by mystery and complexity in a person i.e so I am more likely to bypass the "life of the party" guy dancing with his shirt off to everyone's entertainment(too showy).

I am likely to notice the stranger sitting smoking a cigar in the corner with jeans nicely clinging to his derriere (Scorpio is sexual & likes the suggestion of the covert than overt sexuality).

How I pursue them however would be through being nice, courteous and aggressively charming. I would try to make them laugh or relax them in my presence (Mars in Libra)

posted April 13, 2019 08:46 PM            

quote:

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In my experience, one has to read the Mars clues that they leave in their wake. It could be the long eye contact, digging into private details of you a lot or asking a lot of personal and/or private stuff about you a lot etc.

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That was it, the long fixed eye-contact which set off the first ping. Immediately after I thought; 'that was weird, I thought this guy hated me.'

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Scorpio Mars can be unnervingly "focused" on you when interested. You are the only person that exists in as far as they are concerned and they want to uncover you as an archeologist(a Scorpio profession) uncovers the secrets of the earth through excavation.

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Is it safe to say that being that Scorpio is a feminine sign, Mars's pursuit will look differently than a Mars in a masculine or cardinal sign?

posted April 14, 2019 05:00 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
Is it safe to say that being that Scorpio is a feminine sign, Mars's pursuit will look differently than a Mars in a masculine or cardinal sign?

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Absolutely.Exactly it.Feminine signs are indirect or very subtle in approach.They want to avoid rejection(water) because of heightened sensitivity to it or in the case of earth signs,"fruitless" endeavors and squandering of precious energy.

I know of a Scorpio Mars experience myself that ended badly and I (even as Mars in Libra) couldn't salvage.In a nutshell, he was interested and I was involved.He persisted, I politely rebuffed.He got really upset and claimed I "lead him on" . I apologized. He severed ties painfully and I reeled from all that.

Be careful.Scorpio Mars takes things personally despite the "cool aloofness" they project.If things go awry, they may not recover or bounce back in a fashion you'd expect. Given that they are also ruled by Mars, there is a tendency to be a little "childlike" in response to a rebuff.Some may even seek to disgrace you.

posted April 14, 2019 05:37 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Absolutely.Exactly it.Feminine signs are indirect or very subtle in approach.They want to avoid rejection(water) because of heightened sensitivity to it or in the case of earth signs,"fruitless" endeavors and squandering of precious energy.

I know of a Scorpio Mars experience myself that ended badly and I (even as Mars in Libra) couldn't salvage.In a nutshell, he was interested and I was involved.He persisted, I politely rebuffed.He got really upset and claimed I "lead him on" . I apologized. He severed ties painfully and I reeled from all that.

Be careful.Scorpio Mars takes things personally despite the "cool aloofness" they project.If things go awry, they may not recover or bounce back in a fashion you'd expect. Given that they are also ruled by Mars, there is a tendency to be a little "childlike" in response to a rebuff.Some may even seek to disgrace you.

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posted April 14, 2019 07:34 AM            

i have a cap mars and i've never made the first move or any actual effort until i've known something was a sure thing and the other person (male or female) said as much as bluntly as possible (i've never taken people touching me and **** like that very seriously, because i'm used to people doing that sort of thing to me and always have been so it takes a lot for me to grasp that it's ever more than just that in someone's head)

but that being said my fiancee was the one who chased after me (scorpio venus conjunct pluto and pisces mars conjunct jupiter, they sextile each other)

i was also with a scorpio mars/sag venus too and when i think about it only feminine mars signs with the exception of my most recent fwbs (i ended that though) who had an aquarius mars and all of them made the first move male or female, so ive had people with feminine mars pursue me pretty hard in all honesty

i'm not like that myself though, in my case i flirt accidentally (but that's with a lot of people it isn't necessarily special or meaningful so i wouldn't count that) but dont take it seriously

once i know things are in my favor and i've decided i want to have something (which is a hard process for me, i can be in a relationship and still be unsire of whether or not i want to be) then i open up (if it isn't just sex, that's different and easier) and show other sides of me

so i only open up once things are set in stone really, it isn't fear of rejection so much as it seeming unnecessary

which does work for the feminine mars theory you have, but doesnt explain the people who have pursued me for the most part, even the cancer mars made the first move

i would blame the virgo sun to an extent not just the mars, because i have one of those too and i've seen feminine mars signs push for more hard

virgo tends to be a little self contained, and that can be easy to get used to until someone else makes the effort to be in your life in which case suddenly your life includes them too and you pay more attention

thats how i work anyway, and i've seen the theme of the "virginal" quality of virgo just being that self contained thing repeatedly over the years when other people discuss it

posted April 14, 2019 07:51 AM            

quote:

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Be careful.Scorpio Mars takes things personally despite the "cool aloofness" they project.If things go awry, they may not recover or bounce back in a fashion you'd expect. Given that they are also ruled by Mars, there is a tendency to be a little "childlike" in response to a rebuff.Some may even seek to disgrace you

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Yea, it did take a while for me to figure out he was flirting with me. Wasn't until I looked up his chart, AND he appeared in my dreams that I realized he was flirting. I just thought he was a meanie who didn't like me.

In the innocent days I'd have to be stubborn and argumentative with him to get my way. I'd ask him something and he'd refuse, then I'd argue him down, and he'd refuse, then I'd let it go......then he'd come around. It could be the simplest thing. A third person would ask him and he'd say yes. I ask the same question and he'd say no.

posted April 14, 2019 07:55 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:

Another thing is that he likes the challenge of not knowing how to read her mind/thoughts. His obsession with her starts to be because he can't "figure" her out and she is closed to him(I suspect Scorpio Mars).

And that is the thing with Mars ruled planet in Mars-you have to maintain that air of "mystery" or be quite a challenge to figure out(the same is true of Aries). As Scorpio is a sign of psychology and solving mysteries.

So with Mars in the sign of Scorpio, one can invest energy in trying to figure you out or pre-empt your moves piously.This is especially when Mars is in aspect with Pluto(which is the case here).

Once you become "normal" / "one sided" in personality, you may kill the enthuisiasm & arousal.So keep the Mars in Scorpio guessing & always be suggestive rather than blatant. More subtle than ostentatious.

This rings true for Sun,Moon,Venus in Scorpio too. Keep the mystery going. It drives most crazy but it keeps them aroused. But it depends on their Mars sign and aspects etc.as to how they will go after you.

I have Venus in Scorpio and Mars in Libra for instance . And like Mars in Scorpio, I tend to be aroused by mystery and complexity in a person i.e so I am more likely to bypass the "life of the party" guy dancing with his shirt off to everyone's entertainment(too showy).

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it's interesting thatcyou mention this my fiancee has told me she starts to hate people when she's been around them a while typically

because she knows what they'll say or do and she starts to resent them for it (scorpio mercury too) she usually is right about people i'll give her that (very wrong about my motivations and such frequently though) but she can be harsh about it

she also doesnt like when she cant read people at all though, then she feels like theyre hiding things and being manipulative because of the way theyre closed off

she wants to read someone enough without them being always predictable

she's told me she cant always tell with me though, that i surprise her even after so much time together, but we can also pick up on each other's thoughts easily (i've answered questions she hasnt vocalized as she was about to and vice versa etc) which i guess is that balance she needs

posted April 14, 2019 08:09 AM            

Our first interaction left me cold, so I avoided him. I could never have a conversation with him. He was always short and in a hurry to flee the scene*. However, everyday at lunch he took the long route which bypassed the secluded area I used to sit.

One day I genuinely asked him what the time was, and he gave the biggest smile with a blush. From that moment on he began to subtly flirt with me. He was one of those Leos who came across as a Virgo.

posted April 14, 2019 08:20 AM            

What I find a contradiction is that they are allowed to go all in and even use "below the belt" tactics.But should you do the same,its all out WAR.

Be prepared to not see the vulnerable side or "white flag" hoisted up for a long time.Unless the Mars in Scorpio is evolved, it may feel very confusing ; like they are pushing you away more than pulling you in.

posted April 14, 2019 08:29 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
In a way he reminds me of a Leo with the other four personal planets all in Virgo.

Our first interaction left me cold, so I avoided him. I could never have a conversation with him. He was always short and in a hurry to flee the scene*. However, everyday at lunch he took the long route which bypassed the secluded area I used to sit.

One day I genuinely asked him what the time was, and he gave the biggest smile with a blush. From that moment on he began to subtly flirt with me. He was one of those Leos who came across as a Virgo.

*Same thing with this Virgo guy. I think there's an opening I approach and he's suddenly in a rush to leave.

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i actually turned my fiancee down when she first told me she wanted a relationship with me, and i sortof turned my ex down too (i havent done this when its just been about sex with someone too), the whole idea of anything serious really scared the **** out of me and rather than saying as much i just avoided it altogether lol

i can't really say why i did that other than sheer panic, and in my fiancee's case i probably messed with her head a little because right after we wandered around a boardwalk together (she told me during a vacation) and we ended up getting back late and sharing a bed etc

im annoying to deal with in all honesty, and i can want someone have them right there then internally panic and just no

because in a way getting what you want can be scarier than not getting it, especially when another person is involved so it's out of your control on some level how it all turns out

not that i thought so deeply about it then, it was just a knee jerk reaction but yeah that sounds about right though in those particular situations you laid out i wouldnt have disappeared only when it was really serious

they might have more virgo than me though, i just have my sun there

but yeah i'd blame that even more than mars

edit: i can also be mindnumbingly stupid with flirting and not notice or take it serious even when it is

my fiancee makes fun of me still for the first 4 years of us knowing each other before i eventually asked her out

posted April 14, 2019 09:12 AM            

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they might have more virgo than me though, i just have my sun there

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Sun is the only planet he has in Virgo. I suspect a Cancer Asc.

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but yeah i'd blame that even more than mars

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Same. It is something I've noticed in SOME Scorpio placements, wanting the other person to chase and catch them...even when Scorpio was the one in hot pursuit.

I say some Scorpios because in addition to this Virgo, there is, thus far, an interested Scorpio.

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edit: i can also be mindnumbingly stupid with flirting and not notice or take it serious even when it is

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Since he was the one that sought my attention, I believe he knew what he wanted. I'm just confused by his recent behavior. Was it just for attention? Did he change his mind? Or, games?

posted April 14, 2019 09:28 AM            

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^^^ for them to even "argue" or attempt to means you have hit a raw nerve(I say this of Mars /Venus in aspect or Mars in 7th too).

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Yea. Our first interaction was an argument, and it caught me by surprise. Right after he went quiet and did that dignified staring into the distance thing.

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What I find a contradiction is that they are allowed to go all in and even use "below the belt" tactics.But should you do the same,its all out WAR.

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Generally, I believe he is a nice guy who wants to get along with everyone.

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Be prepared to not see the vulnerable side or "white flag" hoisted up for a long time.Unless the Mars in Scorpio is evolved, it may feel very confusing ; like they are pushing you away more than pulling you in.

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We're there now. There is no communication as we've painted ourselves in a corner. Whomever breaks the ice would be the one with the white flag. I have mercury in Cancer, I'm comfortable with initiating conversation. I want to hug and be physically close to him so bad.

Yes, the pushing you away is something a Scorpio ex did to me years ago. When all was said and done that Scorpio accused me of 'throwing it all away' because I 'didn't fight for [him]'. In the final chapter: We planned a date but he didn't show. I called, he answered, then gave the phone to someone who said he wasn't home. I left it alone.

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This is all a game to have you "relinquish" control to them. Be prepared for such weird emotional games for a long time to come.Its part in parcel of being with them.Its 'testing" if you got the "stuff". The feint of heart need not apply.

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posted April 14, 2019 09:56 AM            

i think the sun in virgo probably explains a certain level of the awkward unsureness and avoidance, but i think the actual back and forth push and pull games are scorpio and it's probably a weird combination to deal with because nothing there is making him forward (especially with a cancer ascendant, mine is libra venus conjunct so that's why i can be flirty which at least helps things along even when it's unintentional)

i think with scorpio the hot/cold is a matter of control, if you show interest and they can get you to show it and push then they have an upper hand because they didnt fully put themselves out there they made you do it

they manipulate and play games to get things rather than being direct because when you just lay all your cards out you might have a losing hand and nothing to back away into, can't bluff anymore or keep a mask up

scorpios cling to that mask because they're very vulnerable deep down, and very emotional so to give that part of themselves to someone else is terrifying and that on top of the virgo **** is just going to lead to a lot of mixed messages most likely

if he's still engaging with you on any level or reacting then i think there's probably still interest

with scorpio it's only ever just about attention if someone else hurt them and they need an ego boost, but that sort of thing burns out quick for them

he probably does know what he wants (i'm likely a much more indecisive person than him given the heavy libra and such) but knowing what you want and knowing how to get it when everything is an elaborate game can be two different things

with virgo id say the fear is of someone else being in your life and space whether or not you want them there because you cant be self contained anymore which causes anxiety, whereas with scorpio the fear is vulnerability and they need to have power and control to feel safe

my fiancee with all her scorpio placements can obsess over her every interaction and plot everything she might do like she's going into battle and almost leave no room to breathe while examining and picking people apart planning their every possible move too

there's always a strategy, always a game, and always a need to "win" and if they do become vulnerable there's a need to attack and defend any perceived slight

it's a lot to navigate through honestly, and you should really think about whether or not you want to keep pushing with this game because he probably is still interested if he has any emotional reactions at all even if theyre running away

posted April 14, 2019 10:07 AM            

what you said about your ex is interesting because i've noticed with my fiancee that whenever she puts up an obstacle or does something retarded and backwards because of her feelings part of what she wants is for me to just pursue and keep going anyway, like she needs to see it to validate her own feelings

like it's only ok to care about someone who will repeatedly try to get past defenses and move past all the stings and games and see what's past there, and if you don't they feel betrayed

if you acted like them they'd feel betrayed too, because they generally don't like their own behavior (they often know they're self destructive and genuinely dont like that about themselves) and they don't want to be with someone too much like them in that sense because it would only drag them down further and make them feel like they were at a loss of power and control to always play those same games

they'll hurt themselves to get at you because when you hurt yourself youre in control of your pain, and there's power in that where there isnt any in someone else hurting you

by not seeing past that and continuing on you weren't "trying enough" which means you didn't "love enough" which is all very immature scorpio **** , and on some level they can start to get better but nothing is ever easy with scorpio placements for you or them by their own design

posted April 14, 2019 10:21 AM            

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Mars does pursue. But its the house position and subsequent aspects that denote the "how" one does it.

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I want to revisit this statement.

Years ago I made the observation that in the Venus-Mars dynamic it is the Venus person who pursues the union, this as Venus is the Goddess of relationships.

In basic astrology we were taught that Venus in the part of the horoscope where we form relationships. It is here where he learn what makes a person happy, gives it to them with the expectation that they will return the favor. Mars is self gratification, Venus is gratification through others.

I've interpreted this to mean that while Mars is pursuit in general; career, money, warfare. In the relationship arena Venus is the planet that takes over. Far from being a passive somebody who bats her eyelashes, Venus is proactive in the establishment of a relationship. Thus in a Venus-Mars interaction you will often observe the Venus person making more effort than the Mars person.

posted April 14, 2019 10:40 AM            

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Example of an opposition in synastry is where the Venus pursues Pluto to make Pluto over, and idealizes the relationship, waiting and hoping. Pluto can be arrogant and vindictive when Venus is done pursuing, there is a lot of energy expended and it's not productive in a physical way. BUT this can be very productive, mentally, and eventually lead to a working relationship.
Eg., Venus woman with Venus in Aries pursues Pluto in Libra man, and nothing works.

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posted April 14, 2019 10:51 AM            

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what you said about your ex is interesting because i've noticed with my fiancee that whenever she puts up an obstacle or does something retarded and backwards because of her feelings part of what she wants is for me to just pursue and keep going anyway, like she needs to see it to validate her own feelings

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Yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to with Scorpio heavy people...no means yes.

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like it's only ok to care about someone who will repeatedly try to get past defenses and move past all the stings and games and see what's past there, and if you don't they feel betrayed

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Yea. He appeared in my dreams after I'd moved on to say he felt ignored.

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if you acted like them they'd feel betrayed too, because they generally don't like their own behavior (they often know they're self destructive and genuinely dont like that about themselves) and they don't want to be with someone too much like them in that sense because it would only drag them down further and make them feel like they were at a loss of power and control to always play those same games

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There's a new Scorpio in my life who is making all the right moves. I believe this one will be different...though I tend to attract Scorpio and Scorpio energy easily and often.

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i think her and i only work because my mars is in cap tbh (sextiles her venus/pluto and sextiles her mars and is conjunct her neptune) so obstacles don't stop me once i'm already in

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posted April 14, 2019 11:59 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
I've long learned that relinquishing control to another person only ends with bitternes.

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posted April 14, 2019 04:37 PM            

We also have Sun conjunct Moon, this is why I asked if Sun-Moon is the decider on who pursues.

To be fair, he did initiate, or made it known there was more than a passing attraction. Now that I'm on board, it appears he has pulled back while encouraging me to 'take it from here'.

I have responded in typical Venusian ways; poems, looking pretty, learning what he likes and doing that. Then asking to spend more one-on-one time together.

No doubt he likes Venus' attention and gifts. However, I can't keep doing this without reassurance.

posted April 14, 2019 05:30 PM            

Anyways, what you describe is just, common male behaviour in west countries, sadly. Its hard to use astrology in thise cases, in my experience :/ Sorry don't mean to sound negative! Ok I will stop now

posted April 14, 2019 05:34 PM            

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"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts