posted May 10, 2019 06:32 PM            

However, I’m wondering if it would be a good thing if it is ever proved as valid?

With just our birth info, pretty much everything can be shown in a chart. All the potentials and transits.

Now imagine how it can be used for recruitment selection. Discrimination.

I always thought it would be great if more people can know this tool for self guidance and improvement as well as help others. But now I wonder we are ready?

posted May 10, 2019 07:01 PM            

if it's to your benefit not so bad, if it isn't then sure that would suck but that's life anyway isn't it? regardless of what system is in place and what standards people are held to there's always people who come out ok and ones who don't so i don't really see how astrology being widely recognized would be all that different ultimately

i can't really see a difference anyway

posted May 11, 2019 08:51 AM            

With these said. Let’s say it’s about potential. Which means if we have negative aspects we might be able to overcome them. But what if it’s used for discrimination?
There’s a thread here about Moon and Mars aspect showing potential serial killer traits and aggression. What if recruiters avoid some people based on aspects? What if they better avoid them even if just potential?

If we are assuming that astrology works and is accepted (the question of this thread as basis of debate), then wouldn’t it make sense to select people based on traits nd their compatibility? How about transits showing someone is goingg through a hard time so it might not be a stable hire?

posted May 11, 2019 09:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AriesLilith:
Some years ago I’ve joined some astrology classes from a practicioner of astrology for decades, and after a few classes I came out with a deeper understanding of astrology that I did not find even after some years of interest. What I want to say here is not that I know a lot, I clearly have a lot to learn and far from reading chart for others, even thought I attempted years ago, but rather it being accurate seems to have a lot to do with our experience, reading of sthe more serious material, as well as practice.
For example, todd reads really accurately and he did research and analyzed many many charts.
Our ability to know how to read certainly determines the accuracy we can witness. This same applies for cooking recipe style descriptions available online mostly.

With these said. Let’s say it’s about potential. Which means if we have negative aspects we might be able to overcome them. But what if it’s used for discrimination?
There’s a thread here about Moon and Mars aspect showing potential serial killer traits and aggression. What if recruiters avoid some people based on aspects? What if they better avoid them even if just potential?

If we are assuming that astrology works and is accepted (the question of this thread as basis of debate), then wouldn’t it make sense to select people based on traits nd their compatibility? How about transits showing someone is goingg through a hard time so it might not be a stable hire?

Or maybe if that happens, people would protect their birthday information as valuable. Maybe new ways of dealing with this happens.

---

i agree on the validity being based on the practitioner so i won't touch that first bit

but to move along, people are discriminated against anyway any society will always have people who are discriminated against and anyone recruiting anyone for anything will have guidelines and an idea of what they're looking for and not take people who don't fit

thinking a different kind of discrimination would somehow be worse than any current ones makes no sense, and it's human nature to discriminate and just the nature of society and civilization in general

there are always those who don't fit and are ostracized and those who do and are venerated it's just the way humans function

astrology being recognized and used in that manner would only change the method used to discriminate but the reality of people would remain the same other than who is on top and who's seen as valuable for what

would it have its flaws? sure but what system doesn't?

an intelligent person might not be a good student, but it wouldn't matter to a school that accepts people based on grades because that's their system of judgement and it disregards things outside of tests or classroom performance even though those aren't measures of anything other than classroom performance or how someone does on tests you get me? is that really all that different than reading a chart to judge potential?

is someone losing their job while going through a hard time because it interferes with their work performance any different than someone losing their job due to upcoming transits? either way outside circumstances are affecting their life and work situation

jobs, schools, society etc anything with structure discriminates and operates within an imperfect system how is one different than the other on a level that counts?

posted May 11, 2019 09:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i agree on the validity being based on the practitioner so i won't touch that first bit

but to move along, people are discriminated against anyway any society will always have people who are discriminated against and anyone recruiting anyone for anything will have guidelines and an idea of what they're looking for and not take people who don't fit

thinking a different kind of discrimination would somehow be worse than any current ones makes no sense, and it's human nature to discriminate and just the nature of society and civilization in general

there are always those who don't fit and are ostracized and those who do and are venerated it's just the way humans function

astrology being recognized and used in that manner would only change the method used to discriminate but the reality of people would remain the same other than who is on top and who's seen as valuable for what

would it have its flaws? sure but what system doesn't?

an intelligent person might not be a good student, but it wouldn't matter to a school that accepts people based on grades because that's their system of judgement and it disregards things outside of tests or classroom performance even though those aren't measures of anything other than classroom performance or how someone does on tests you get me? is that really all that different than reading a chart to judge potential?

is someone losing their job while going through a hard time because it interferes with their work performance any different than someone losing their job due to upcoming transits? either way outside circumstances are affecting their life and work situation

jobs, schools, society etc anything with structure discriminates and operates within an imperfect system how is one different than the other on a level that counts?

the way i see it nothing would change all that much, not in regards to human nature anyway

---

Human nature might not change on the whole, and systems are not perfect, but that is why people try to figure out ways to deal with flaws and implement them along the way.

Take being discriminated at recruitment for having young children for example. Recruiters discriminate sometimes, which led to implementing laws against asking about this. Of course it can still be exploited but it minimized the occurence.

We might list many situations where there is discrimination and injustice so what difference would it make for just one more? And then present a list of ways that are either implemented or can be implemented to improve such situations.

posted May 11, 2019 09:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AriesLilith:
Human nature might not change on the whole, and systems are not perfect, but that is why people try to figure out ways to deal with flaws and implement them along the way.

Take being discriminated at recruitment for having young children for example. Recruiters discriminate sometimes, which led to implementing laws against asking about this. Of course it can still be exploited but it minimized the occurence.

We might list many situations where there is discrimination and injustice so what difference would it make for just one more? And then present a list of ways that are either implemented or can be implemented to improve such situations.

I guess what I want to say that there cn always be improvements. It’s alaways been, otherwise we would have stayed like centuries ago and for example women would have no rights still. Sure, there are still lots of problems but at least some things were done to change.

---

my point is it wouldn't necessarily be "one more way" it might just be a different one, and there's no real way to deal with flaws within a system without adding more complex issues that create more flaws people think that restricting things further is somehow positive but really what that ends up doing is generally giving away more power to a different system

it makes sense to not want to hire someone with young children if those children don't have a steady caretaker just like it makes sense to not hire someone without a car in a place where cars are necessary

yes that can make things hard for people in rough situations but from a business perspective it's hardly wrong to want people who can best fill a role with the least amount of potential complications

laws that make people feel like they're getting their fair share are really just giving a government more power over business (and people as a result) and very often put smaller businesses that can't afford to take losses the same way larger ones can at a disadvantage

creates a different kind of injustice, but i suppose it's one you see as more valid because it affects business owners rather than employees? they're all just people though aren't they ultimately?

people pick and choose whatever injustices they like and build society around those, and their "improvements" in one direction tend to take away from something else in another and it's impossible to truly balance any given system and pretending there's some outcome where things actually are truly fair and balanced in any given civilized society is just turning a blind eye to reality

if astrology was widely recognized and used to recruit people it would be no better or worse than any other system and people would still be just as ****** as they would in any other case (or on the flipside just as well off)

it really ultimately makes no difference, and it's not that people aren't ready for it it's that people are people and by nature that means some will fall through the cracks and others won't

posted May 11, 2019 05:24 PM            

Maybe I sound like an idealist. But I love Cloud Atlas’ quote. What is an ocean but a multitude of drops? (something like this)

posted May 11, 2019 05:57 PM            

i think it's always worth a try to improve things, but i also accept the reality that "improvements" only ultimately matter if they benefit me because they'll never truly come without a price

i would argue the government having more power over businesses isn't what would keep them in check better because it just takes away rights from the people like i said and it allows bigger businesses to gain unfair advantages the more the government micromanages the market because smaller start ups will always flail and people will be at a larger disadvantage in that sense

what would give businesses more incentive to be socially responsible would actually be the masses choosing to educate themselves about where the products come from and actually caring and treating their money like the power tool that it is

when you buy something from a corporation that has unfair practices or is getting through loopholes adding more laws doesn't do as much as people choosing to go elsewhere

it's a lack of individual responsibility and knowledge of the consumers that allows for such massive issues with business practices ultimately

by taking the responsibility away from the consumer and projecting it onto the government you're actually drawing away from the real issue which is that people generally don't actually care as long as they have a constant flow of products ready for consumption and they'd much rather give up more rights and power for an illusion than do something on their own

businesses care about profit, which means they care about what will get them profit and if people care about what they buy and where they get it from then the businesses that will profit will be the ones that have business practices people value and more businesses will follow those practices because only an idiot would do something unprofitable when it came to business

the fact that people choose to not exercise that power over business comes from the over reliance on the government and systems to take care of everything for them at the cost of an imbalance in the exchange of power (ultimately a government is by design only concerned with keeping control and maintaining power because to lose either is to be at the mercy of someone else or another system)

it's miseducation and a lack of personal responsibility due to the domestication of people by the government and systems that causes those particular issues

to bring it back to what you were talking about with astrology being used in a discriminatory manner the flipside is that it could also be used in a manner where people were better utilized and their strengths were catered to from early on, which makes it the same as anything else

i'm trying to understand why you see it as different than any other reality where people are sorted through systematically and i'm failing so maybe you could explain how it's different? that was the original purpose of the thread right? that it would be worse somehow if it was used over any other given system rather than the same?

i'm curious about what i'm missing or haven't considered rather than the idea that trying to change for the better is nice even though it will always come with failure (which i agree with, but only because remaining stagnant is failure in and of itself anyway and i think people should keep some spirit of rebellion to keep things from becoming too unbalanced in one direction over another over the longterm because that's a different sort of destruction through order that's pretty dismal)

because in a sense if you believe astrology is correct then why would utilizing it over a different system be a negative when discrimination will happen either way?

also i've never seen cloud atlas, but i've heard some good things about it, my attention span for movies is generally terrible though so i don't usually try to watch anything

posted May 13, 2019 02:53 PM            

I agree with you that it's important that people in society takes responsibility to what they consume so companies would be more responsible. Although it might not work on the overall for two reasons:
1, there are many businesses where there is no choice but for poorer people at least to choose. Take biological food for example. The idea is great but the price is oftwn more expensive and poorer families just wouldn't spend more if they live on tight budgets.
2, society works because people as a whole specialize in different things. Average people just wouldn't have energy to research and see everything they buy is from moral and ethical companies or not.

And if some markets there is simply no choice as all entities of the market are the same and people need their products.

I guess that my logic isn't in agreement with the logic of "since there are already other ways of discrimination it wouldn't make difference to add one more". My starring point is more of "can astrology be misused and what can we do to avoid so". There are many things a recruiter can discriminate against but many ways are implemented to avoid them. Also, we can't choose our chart and it can tell so much about us compared to other aspects.

posted May 13, 2019 07:10 PM            

Astrology newbies who 'catch' the astro-bug, are just as annoying with their zealousness as new religion-converts. Incessant

I know that with myself, I've learned to pull-back a bit and become more discriminating about sharing this interest. (Around office I work)

It's fun at first because it can act as an ice-breaker.
But go absolutely-shallow or nil about transit astrology-- because when you've been weirdly~accurate, it actually kind of scares people.

I barely share info now.. unless asked my 'real' opinion, or when I hear a conversation of someone who happens to demonstrate they know some astrology.

Not sure (haven't fact-checked but) there are huge corporations that already hire astrologers to give them opinions on candidates filling certain kinds of jobs.
??I think, someone 'somehow' had found out and 'sued' the company.

Religion-based or some philosophyBelief system corporations, business employers, might probably question the hire of someone with astrology listed as hobby?

Depends on your what's available in your locale, I guess?
~

Had once had a simple idea in the past on practical use that wasn't received then.
Times changed, I guess
as the World is becoming a more tumultuous and dangerous place now?

Some leaders are talking about the reality of multiple nuclear-strikes among nations-- poisoning our atmospheres, even with waves that will pollute the channels the internet runs off of too?
(was a question-- don't know if it's valid)

Astrology Research----------
Anyways, there ARE and have-been Professional Research project-groups who were striving to find practical-correlations. You've probably seen the Gauguin Sectors (at Astrodienst, under Pullen charts).

- http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gauguin,_Paul
for example--
- http://www.astrosoftware.com/gauquelinsectors.htm

- http://www.astrologer.com/cochrane#!

Another research astrologer has been David Cochrane.
His work--
- http://www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Harmonic_Chart
- http://birthcharts.astro-seek.com/birth-chart/david-cochrane-horoscope

There are 'research categories' available through astro-wiki/astro-DataBank managed by Astrodienst.
Check this out-- for a demonstration.
(topic) How to Access AstroDatabank Data in Sirius 2.0 (David Cochrane Astrology, 2014) [24:34] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPok88KAPjQ

There are other researchers out there too. Just can't remember who they are right now.

posted May 13, 2019 10:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ballerina:
We would have to go back to
the Dendera Zodiac, which was
created in higher consciousness
with God. ...

---

posted May 13, 2019 11:08 PM            

i just word vomit whatever ******** comes to mind in like 10 minutes after i read a response so it's not really a big deal

to address your points though

1 most people who are poor and on tight budgets still have a tendency to spend their money on frivolous things or make purchases that aren't conscientious, i'm sure you'd notice that even in those cases things can be worked around

that's honestly just reality

2 society very frequently doesn't allow people to focus on what they specialize in and many people are just a cog in a machine doing absolutely worthless **** to keep someone else rich and sometimes they're just part of the larger problem as a result

there are many products people don't actually need, and there's no reason why people can't make better choices about the ones they do need if it's an issue

that all being said i didn't see it as necessarily "one more" issue i saw it as "if this system is believed to work and it's believed to be valuable why wouldn't it replace a different system?" rather than just tacking it on though that's sort of like saying "why have multiple standards we should have laws to protect people against standards" in a sense (assuming you believe in astrology as being accurate, because if i have a system i believe is accurate i'm going to utilize it and likely i'll utilize it over a different system at least temporarily to test it out instead of just adding one more thing)

nothing to apologize for, when i say i word vomit this kind of thing i really do mean that

posted May 14, 2019 10:12 AM            

When the Dendera zodiac
was created there were
no clocks, so no time of
birth...

We humans complicate things,
in reality it's a11 very
simple...

posted May 14, 2019 12:48 PM            

In ancient times people were not "just" astrologers. They were mathematicians, astronomers and physicists because they had to be in order to become astrologers.
There was no tool where you would enter birth info and it would magically spit out an entire chart. They had to do everything from scratch.

Back then it was also a more respected discipline.

posted May 15, 2019 03:40 PM            

My perspective is related to working in IT. Because information is a powerful tool, and an accurate chart is a powerful information, it’s like letting people know about us about things that might get us discriminated at. For example someone who migt have anger issues shown in the chart but has been working on it, might not deserve to be discriminated against. A protection measure would be not being forced to give our birthday information out in a recruitment process.

posted May 15, 2019 04:29 PM            

i have the whole saturn/pluto thing squaring my ascendant/venus and my descendant/moon (and my nodes) and by my ic (pluto had passed my ic just before the retrograde and saturn will eventually after the retrograde though it'll go all the way back to my mars for a minute first) though so far it feels like it's been a good thing and i needed it

sorry to hear it's been difficult for you

i get what you're saying, but i think depending on areas of talent and such that kind of thing could be overlooked anyway and anger can be channeled in certain ways where it's a good thing (and worked on like you said) so it would depend on a lot of factors ultimately and maybe if taken into account it would be easier to work with and be worked on

it's not like people with difficult personalities are always passed over for things in a workplace setting anyway even if they're known to be difficult in some cases it all depends on what else they bring to the table

i have uranus trine mercury too (leo mercury sag uranus, they both trine my aries moon) with uranus in the 3rd house i also have cap neptune and mars in the 3rd if it's a task i can keep from being distracted during that doesn't require lots of structure i can generally get things done quickly but i'm easily distracted, lack structure and focus etc

posted May 15, 2019 04:56 PM            

For the more responsible jobs/vocations, even some kinds of volunteer work, the employers WILL 'vet' you (do research background checks) to see what is out there, pertaining to you. It's amazing how much "personal" information is plainly available about persons, via their connections to social media.

You can reciprocate and vet any employer/boss in a similar fashion.

Maintaining a Good Reputation,
and being an Honest Person,
with a Good Work Ethic--
Giving people the quality they expect--
is still regarded as a "High Value", in this Society.
Whether you're an astrologer or not.

What you for clients (even former-+employees), can wind up being reported on the internet.

A lot of employers don't know if they can trust the motives of their employees.

I remember when I "FIRST" started an interest in astrology, I was sooo excited. A year or two later, I had found an astrology book in my local library that had an author that lived only blocks away from there.

I called him with an 'offer' to work on projects for him-- even if it was ONLY stuffing envelopes, for taking those to the post office; or straightening out papers, etc.. In those days, astrologers sent out newsletters by snail-mail. (Was just-before email newsletters took hold.)
He was an 'older-to-elderly man'.
I was SHOCKED by his reactive-nature-- "accusing me" of wanting to snoop around his stuff to "steal his secrets???"
.. Apparently, 'that' must be a problem among astrologers-- that they were "suspicious" that people wanted to work for them for the purpose of "stealing" their techniques, and TAKE-over/stealing clients from them??
… Oh my. I'm "still" a bit shocked remembering the brusque reception I got!
I would have been willing to 'volunteer' ..

His retort was that 'I go find a job'!?
It was like ~duh????
That's what I was attempting to do????
ALL I wanted was 'to work in the vibe/ground/ field I had a strong interest in.' It wouldn't have mattered 'what' I did.

(Later, I found an article about him in the local news that he was involved in domestic-violence accusation-- ~nasty marital problems--
I tried to 'adjust' my perspective, and take his (unfortunate) gnarly-reaction at me with a different light).

posted May 15, 2019 05:14 PM            

why would you put anything other than very specific things you'd be ok with an employer finding connected to your name and email that you'd use to find a job though?

irl could be vetted by an employer me has no internet presence