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kani
Knowflake

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posted June 08, 2019 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Aries,

I don't know if you remember, but in a thread a while ago I posted the chart of my father and wanted to know why he and I had/have such a difficult relationship. You answered and said that my dad had very big issues with himself and that a thread should be openend just for him lol. I m doing this now because I wanna know what you think.
I am very much aware of his issues (I was the most "difficult" child so me and him had the biggest issue out of all three of his kids) but I would like to hear your astrological analysis of it.

Here it is. If you also want to see my chart, let me know
P.S. I asked his time of birth and he said he was born early in the morning, when the rooster crows, so my estimated ascendant is around 11degrees aries.

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Aries23Degrees
Knowflake

Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 08, 2019 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That Saturn conjunct Ic jumped right at me. I know a guy with Saturn/Uranus both there. I wouldn't say that he is "cruel" pe se, but he is unemotional. Very cerebral.

The Ic represents our sense of emotional security or what we grew up under which we termed "normal". It would be fair to say that your Dad's upbringing was in itself quite austere(Saturn conjunct Ic). No cuddles.

Further evidence of this is that Moon(maternal) is widely conjunct Mars in Pisces in the 12th. Neptune squares the ruler of the Mc(opposite sex parent).

Perhaps Mom was locked up, institutionalized, an alcoholic, unreliable or was unable to be there consistently in his life?

There is some anger towards Mom too and a defensiveness towards affection that may be unacknowledged by him(Mars/Moon in 12th).

He may even unconsciously break away from people for healthy "space" because that is what he has come to know as a comfort zone(Moon-Uranus square)

Is the identity of Mom unknown? Was she there during his childhood? There is a sense I get from both Moon/Mars in 12th as well as Neptune square Saturn on the Ic that there was confusion or uncertainty regarding Mom.

Perhaps a sense of being "lost" or not being able to understand Mom. And therein also lies the inability or supression to find his full emotional expression because she may have thwarted his sense of emotional security somehow?

Maybe Dad had to play two roles? Both the maternal figure as well as the disciplinarian?However Saturn in Cancer suggests that Dad was uncomfortable expressing Cancer qualities and may have exaggerated the Saturnine one i.e slow to affection and quick to discipline?

This(together with Mars on Moon, Uranus on Moon) may have inevitably been imprinted on him to supress his more maternal nature and compromised his ability to look to bond with others.

Pluto is said to exalted in Leo. And this dark planet's placement in the creative 5th suggests that there were some harsh lessons to contend with whilst growing up. Emotional nature quickly matured and likely faced tragedy.

As a child I wonder if his father(or paternal figure) was strongly domineering or had a very "my way is the law" in the way he ran the household or reared him? In that there was no time to enjoy childhood.

Pluto in 5th can denote a native who felt strong influences from the parent(Leo is authority/Paternal figure typically). This could be for good or ill.And perhaps this figure imposed their authority on them somehow or was very forceful?

I see that Sun is also in an exalted Aries energy AND in the 1st house. So Dad was likely a strongly imposing figure and with Saturn conjunct 4th, Dad may have cracked the whip or been very strict(not likely very affectionate as suggested by Saturn in Cancer)

Now look at the irony of his Moon on the North node axis conjunct Saturn widely. Saturn is the ruler of his south node in Cap. So its tight parallel aspect to the North Node axis brings an interesting paradox.

Is he meant to be as toughy as nails? No. He is learning to be an authority figure, a Father, a Patriarch or mentor etc. But he must work on accomplishing these things in a way that shows both affection and discipline. Both tenderness and firmness or gentle guidance with firm structure etc. This is the divine paradox of Saturn tied to the N.Node

Your Dad however needs to begin dealing (perhaps through therapy) the repressed(12)emotional(Moon) anger(Mars) that tends to flare up at inopportune times and undermine him.

There is pain(Chiron)in looking into the unconcious mind(Neptune) and dealing with long held issues(Neptune rules the 12th where Moon and Mars are).

But if he fails to do this, these suppressed feelings will continue to undermine him and cause much strife in his life(Neptune in 6th).

Unless he is not yet tired of getting angry about petty things and having fun sitting side by side with the colossal elephant in the room, he can give therapy a try. It can help a lot as his sense of power to initiate change in his life(Mars)is in the 12th house of therapy and psychological analysis. It can be "unlocked".

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kani
Knowflake

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From:
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posted June 08, 2019 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thank you so much for this extensive analysis Aries. That was so interesting.
Yes my father would need therapy but he doesn't see anything wrong with him. But he definitely has some serious issues.
He has been very moody and unpredictable all my life. Also violent, without any apparent trigger sometimes which made me feel like walking around on eggshells. He was never there mentally either; my mum always said that he was always in his home village in his mind, never with his wife and kids really. He tried to assert himself as an authority figure with his family members (us) but failed, because he always acted so spineless outside of the home, especially with his older brother who he idolised.
The relationship with his mother (who I never met) was complicated. She once told him - and I'm sure she didn't mean it literally - that she would kill herself if it wasn't for him. That was when he was a kid still. The backstory is that my dad's father died very young (when my dad was 2 and my grandfather 27) and my grandmother had to look after those 3 boys (dad and hisnbrothers) on her own. The eldest was totally spoilt and the youngest was quite wild. My dad seemed to be the only one who helped and I guess my grandma unconsciously put a very big responsibility on his shoulders. He kept idolsing his older brother even when he had his own kids and showered them with gifts etc while he was stingy with us.
I never felt that he got my back and we were never able to tell him when sth bothered us. Neither of my parents really so we (my sisters and I) basically raised ourselves.
My father's problem is that he believes all his thoughts. It's human nature to have negative thoughts and worries sometimes but most people know they probably will never come true and know how to let them go. My father doesn't seem to be able to do this so they drag him down and then he infects the whole atmosphere with his crappy mood.
Also, I think he believed that if he was a "good boy" and did everything his mum and "God" (however he defined that) wanted from him, he'd get exactly what he wanted in life. Like, us marrying someone from his village, living in the house he built (just as an example) so it wasn't just about his life but it included the life of his children and of course life doesn't work like that. There is no wish fullfilling machine that will work for you if you are "good". But he truly believed that and he still whines sometimes about the fact that I don't have a "proper" job (I do, I am a script writer and I love it) and that I m not married (I don't see the point so I won't). He preoccupies his mind with stuff that are not his business anyway and that aren't bad in an objective sense either. It's like even if all his wishes came true, he would find something else to whine and moan and be depressed about.
And like I said in another thread, in the past he used me as a punching bag, letting his frustrations out on me. Mostly, because I was strong headed and he didn't appreciate that. He felt like I don't respect him (which was actually true but that was all his doing) but at times I didn't do anything and he still let his crap out on me. I have a feeling that he hated the fact I wasn't listening but at the same admired my rebellious nature and my courage (because I was risking beatings which I rather took instead of succumbing to his wishes).
It really would have been helpful if he got therapy but I don't think that is going to happen anymore.
Edit: I believe he let out his pent up anger he actually did feel towards his mother out on me. I was the proxy.

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Aries23Degrees
Knowflake

Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 09, 2019 02:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My goodness.

Well Pluto in Leo in 5th is so suggestive: Big transformations relating to the father, a very domineering father, a very "Scorpio-like" Dad etc.

But I guess "death of a father" would also cover that-seeing that Pluto rules the 8th and is placed in the 5th(furthermore Pluto being in the sign of Leo)

Solar arc Saturn arced to conjunct the Ic just a little under age 2.So I think the birth time is correct.

The alignment of Saturn to Ic is telling

1. Changes in the structure of the family that required him to "grow up"(Saturn).

2. Being raised by grandparents (Saturn).

3.Saturn in 3rd conjunct the 4th means that he either had to help "raise" siblings or was very influenced by siblings.

Perhaps there was one in particular that probably dominated him(Saturn rules the 1Oth) and pushed him to develop himself.

Typically however,Saturn in 3rd means no siblings or an austere and very formal relationship with the ones that the native has(which make the chart holder feel like they really have nobody to relate to anyways on a peer level).

The "believing in own thoughts" and being in a crappy mood as a result of that etc, could also be Saturn in 3rd. The mind tends to be very self-critical and prone to pessimism when here(at worst). However, it does give a dry and sarcastic humour/wit.

Your resistance to your father speaks of Pluto in 5th and perhaps even Sun in 1st.

Pluto in 5th people often have power struggles with their children and tend to "impose" themselves on them. Forcing them to do things their way (even if beating them) is a characteristic trait.

Seeing that Sun(associated solar chart ruler of the 5th) is in the 1st AND the ruler of the 5th(Moon) is widely conjunct Mars and squares Uranus etc. There is likely to be all out rebellion from one or all his kids(and this is where you come in).

You two are more alike in that way and that's what drives him nuts. Its like looking into a mirror and not liking what you see. Lol

On a side note, I see this "power struggle with kids" thing also with people who have Mars-Sun aspects, Pluto-Sun aspects (this especially when the 5th house ruler is Sun or has Pluto/Mars therein).

The father in my upbringing was quite domineering. He has Pluto in Leo forming a parallel aspect with his natal Sun on the Cancer/Leo cusp. Mercury/ Mars/Uranus are also in Leo.

He used to be so tense and erratic at home (Mercury /Uranus conjunct),that we were grateful for the many times he wasn't around.He wasn't very friendly(Sat/ Moon conjunct)

With him, his power struggles were with my Sister. She has Pluto-Sun,Pluto-Mercury,Uranus-Mars and Chiron-Mars(hates aggression or forceful impositions).

So the Dad's Chiron-Mars/Pluto opposition(I have something to prove) would square off with her Chiron/Mars-opposition(I hate impositions) for MANY standoffs.Even now.

She(like you) would get beatings. My youngest sister(whom is herself strongly Plutonian with Scorpio Sun/Pluto/Mercury/Jupiter/N.Node conjunct all square Mars) was very much like me(surprisingly).

I wouldn't be so confrontational as I just wanted to grow up and get out. I really didn't want the Dad around me or have any relationship with him(negative or positive). So I endured him until I could do away with him altogether.

I think he saw me as a "pushover" . I was very much opposed to violence and being a boy, I think he considered me "soft".

That was until I grew up. Thats when he learned I don't chase after every car and bark, I go to the car manufacturer and sort them out.Permanently.

I go to the source and sever ties from there. My sister doesn't(the rebellious one). However my younger sister and I do that. So he gets very quiet when I don't entertain him. He plays very far from me.

Personally I had always considered the father an unreasonable tyrant. And that's maybe why I really oppose tyranny wherever I find it (Mars/Pluto are in 7th). So on one hand I tend to "assume" the above positions when in opposition with others.

But on the other hand, I also ironically attract people who have an Ego and want to impose themselves on me (perhaps seeing me as meek and "allowing") etc. As the opposition works in both ways.

I don't talk much to him even today. Our relations are formal but nothing beyond that. I cut off the role of being "fatherly" with me a long time ago.

I can't remember your chart well. But I suspect Uranus/ Mars/Pluto is strong? Hence the rebellion?

I have Mercury/Jupiter strong and so I just want to avoid getting caught up in things that will "weigh me down" in the long-term.

North node is in Gemini parallel Ic and Mercury conjunct Mc. If its not mentally interesting, I am not there. And I have never found the Dad mentally engaging at all.

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kani
Knowflake

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posted June 09, 2019 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"You two are more alike in that way and that's what drives him nuts. Its like looking into a mirror and not liking what you see. Lol"

That is true in a way, but it's a more a thing of looking at his own shadow. I emodied the traits he didn't allow himself. I was "disobedient", rebellious, I embarrassed him numerous times in front of other people because I wouldn't listen. All things that I believed he wished to do but never dared. But yeah, me and him both are very impulsive and can be very hectic. We share these annoying traits lol. The good thing with him and I was/is that we actually can have good, interesting conversations, escepcially regarding impersonal stuff (that doesn't involve my life decisions) like politics, history, how life was when he was small etc. He also does respect my thoughts when it comes to these things and he always told me, even as a kid, that I'm highly intelligent.

Like you, I (alongside the rest of the family) was also was relieved when he wasn't home. The annoying thing was that he had a completely different persona when we weren't at home so people thought he was a joker/a good, decent person. Though I can't call him a thoroughly bad person either, but he was violent.

His Pluto is on my NN.
Here is my chart.

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Aries23Degrees
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Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 09, 2019 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well in your chart Sun/Mars are conjunct and parallel (Aries energy). Your kids will be just like you. They too will be defiant.

And with added Moon in 1st(Aries energy) can you see how you also carry your Dad's Aries rising/Moon-Mars conjunct and Sun in 1st Aries signature? Its uncanny. And its likely you will pass it on to your kids too.

I didn't check declinations for your Asc but if between 18.55 and 20.55,then Uranus is parallel the Asc and
Moon is parallel to Uranus. Can you say " leave me to go my way" any louder?

Moon/Uranus often suggests a turbulent upbringing or having to deal/adjust to someone whom you have a very unsettling relationship with.And the person never goes away.

So this aspects locks itself in the subconscious mind as a reference for emotional security.Its like you may unknowingly "look" for instability in partnerships or even incorporate it into your home life.

Look at this...Mercury(ruler of Ic) is in Aqua...BAM

Mercury is situated in the house of crisis(8th)..BAM

Pluto is in the 4th(solar ruler of 8th)house of crisis.BAM

Mars is conjunct Mc(solar co-ruler of 8th and ruler of solar 1st house of ACTION)....BAM

Jupiter and Mars are parallel.Mars is exacerbated by expansive Jupiter...BAM.

Ura is in the 5th echoes what I said about Moon/Ura; in that you may be attracted to Uranus types in romantic situations.

Uranus typically wants those who will give you emotional space or some latitude etc. Venus(also ruling solar 7th house of partnerships) is in the 9th(space) in your chart

And even more apt is that the ruler of your 7th(Saturn) is conjuncts Jupiter(lord...give me space).

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kani
Knowflake

Posts: 656
From:
Registered: Oct 2018

posted June 09, 2019 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Well in your chart Sun/Mars are conjunct and parallel (Aries energy). Your kids will be just like you. They too will be defiant.

And with added Moon in 1st(Aries energy) can you see how you also carry your Dad's Aries rising/Moon-Mars conjunct and Sun in 1st Aries signature? Its uncanny. And its likely you will pass it on to your kids too.

I didn't check declinations for your Asc but if between 18.55 and 20.55,then Uranus is parallel the Asc and
Moon is parallel to Uranus. Can you say " leave me to go my way" any louder?

Moon/Uranus often suggests a turbulent upbringing or having to deal/adjust to someone whom you have a very unsettling relationship with.And the person never goes away.

So this aspects locks itself in the subconscious mind as a reference for emotional security.Its like you may unknowingly "look" for instability in partnerships or even incorporate it into your home life.

Look at this...Mercury(ruler of Ic) is in Aqua...BAM

Mercury is situated in the house of crisis(8th)..BAM

Pluto is in the 4th(solar ruler of 8th)house of crisis.BAM

Mars is conjunct Mc(solar co-ruler of 8th and ruler of solar 1st house of ACTION)....BAM

Jupiter and Mars are parallel.Mars is exacerbated by expansive Jupiter...BAM.

Ura is in the 5th echoes what I said about Moon/Ura; in that you may be attracted to Uranus types in romantic situations.

Uranus typically wants those who will give you emotional space or some latitude etc. Venus(also ruling solar 7th house of partnerships) is in the 9th(space) in your chart

And even more apt is that the ruler of your 7th(Saturn) is conjuncts Jupiter(lord...give me space).


The only thing I can say is "Wow"! How can you always be so bang on? It's incredible!

"Well in your chart Sun/Mars are conjunct and parallel (Aries energy). Your kids will be just like you. They too will be defiant.
"

I sense that and that adds to my decision to not have any kids haha. I don't want to deal with child rearing anyway but even less when the kid doesn't listen. I don't think I could deal with that in a calm manner.

"Moon/Uranus often suggests a turbulent upbringing or having to deal/adjust to someone whom you have a very unsettling relationship with.And the person never goes away."

That is word for word the relationship with my father. And it's like - even though I did move away from them at a relatively early agev - I can't get away from him totally, because my mum is still with him and I adore her. The rl with my father seemed to have improved lately actually. the last time we saw each other we didn't even fight, but that was due to me being more relaxed and not letting him trigger me that much anymore.

My asc is at 2126'45" N and my Uranus is at 1956'34" S so I guess it's not counted as contraparallel anymore? But the moon is exactly contraparallel Uranus at 1948'35" N.

What you say about me and relationships is abs. right. I have a long distance relationship and I really like it that way. I need someone to give me space and he needs to be patient which my boyfriend naturally is (most of the time at least).

Also, yeah my dad and I definitely do have traits in common. I tend to be explosive as well (like him) and sometimes a bit too quick to act without thinking. But the depressive thing is not there with me. When Im down I don't let others know usually and I need to retreat until I'm better. I definitely deal with my emotions much better than he does.
Thank you Aries for taking your time. I do appreciate that!
Where did you learn astrology and do you work as a professional astrologer/do you do that for a living?

Edit: what does "solar ruler" mean?

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Aries23Degrees
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From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 09, 2019 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for the wonderful feedback.

Astrology is self taught.I read about it...a lot and I try to apply it as much as possible and not make it too "abstract" and align to "cut and paste" descriptions etc. So that could be my Uranus/Mc parallel aspect that gives me that "out of the box" edge.I really don't like cliches at all.

Solar ruler means the "natural" rulers of planets in their houses with the default Aries Asc(I have this Asc btw).

So here Aries would be ruled by Mars and also the 1st house, Taurus would be ruled by Venus and also the 2nd house etc. So i also look at these planet placements for added meaning in a chart or highlight patterns.

Venus(ruler of solar 7th sign Libra in the Aries "natural" zodiac) in any chart is often looked at as the planet of "love".But I notice that with many astrologers, the consistency with aligning other planets with the natural zodiac is not applied.

I apply it consistently and then use the Asc placement and house of the specific person to draw emphatical placements and chart behavioural patterns.

So if an individual has Mars in 6th, they like to take charge or be the pioneer(Mars/Aries) at work(6th). So they may fiercely compete with their colleagues.

If the same person also has Sun/Saturn opposition in 10th with N.Node in Cap. Then one can conclude that there is a definite need for one to prove oneself at work or be the "best" and prove oneself to oneself that they can "achieve"etc.

In your case, yes Uranus in 5th can eliminate the desire to have kids.Perhaps seeing kids as too much of a responsibility? Or just not seeing yourself as the "cookies in the oven" type?

Maybe you value friendships more and treat your friends like your "children"(Uranus rules the 11th house in the natural Aries zodiac) etc.Adoption/surrogacy can also happen with Uranus in 5th(unconventional parenting) when (in the case of adoption),one adopts a teen for instance.

I understand your view. This especially when we consider sensible Saturn in 4th(restrictions) and Pluto in 4th(highly volatile emotions).So perhaps you are still learning to deal with yourself in this lifetime?And having kids can feel crowded?

But be mindful that Moon in Cancer is termed a "fertile" placement.And with added Uranus on Moon(unplanned events) etc. I would suggest to always use preventive measures and leave NOTHING to chance.

Lilith also squares N.Node in Leo and so it perhaps puts out even the idea of being involved with kids from a detached perspective.

Lilith is about the female body integrity and making its own decisions about what is fit and right for it. And not expectations pinned to it by an oppressive(and often patriarchal) society.

Its funny how i see a lot of folks with Leo placements (which is supposed to be all about children) i.e Leo Sun/Moon or in the 5th etc. Not being too sold with the "parent" idea.

The ones i know are however involved with children in some way.One is a school principal(Saturn in Leo) and another is a Grade one teacher(Moon in Leo). And both don't have their own children.

A close friend has Jupiter in Leo and though he is not that much older than us, I can't help but feel like he "fathers" us as his friends.Add to that his other family members. But he also doesn't want kids.

My best friend has Leo North node(like you) and with Cap Asc.He even "looks" fatherly and imposing but he also has never been a fan of children.

Ironically however, he dates very young boys.And they look to him to "father" them in many ways i.e counsel and guidance.

It got me thinking that perhaps Leo energy is meant to be the "collective" Father/Mother figure in child mental development or health? Or even be suggestive of the lack thereof?

Just like how I think Aqua is the "collective" Father /Mother figure in adult mental development . It can also be an indication of lack of adult mental health. Hmmm....something to ponder about.

How is Pluto/Saturn opp and contra parrallel transits treating you? I have Moon in Cancer too(17 degrees) and there have been some tough instances.[EDITED]

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kani
Knowflake

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posted June 10, 2019 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"In your case, yes Uranus in 5th can eliminate the desire to have kids.Perhaps seeing kids as too much of a responsibility? Or just not seeing yourself as the "cookies in the oven" type?"

Exactly. I know that they are a lot of responsibility and frankly their neediness doesn't appeal to me. All my cousin's children only became interesting to me when they got older and I could hold a real conversation with them. Before that, kids just aren't interesting to me. Also, I don't need to be needed. That alone feels like a burden to me.

"So perhaps you are still learning to deal with yourself in this lifetime?And having kids can feel crowded?"

I truly believe that that is what all conscious humans do. I did have a very heavy crisis phase that lasted a very long time where I processed all old trauma (even from past lives) and re-felt stuck old emotions in order to let them go. I m definitely much more balanced now but I m still not interested in taking care of kids because I value my time and space too much.

"But be mindful that Moon in Cancer is termed a "fertile" placement.And with added Uranus on Moon(unplanned events) etc. I would suggest to always use preventive measures and leave NOTHING to chance."

Thank you for reminding me, because my boyfriend and I haven't been that careful lately. We also have moon mars conjunct double whammy in synastry so yeah, condoms should definitely be used again, lol.

"Its funny how i see a lot of folks with Leo placements (which is supposed to be all about children) i.e Leo Sun/Moon or in the 5th etc. Not being too sold with the "parent" idea."

It's mixed in my circle. there are the ones who are totally opposed to them and then I have friends who adore them and are very interested in everything relating to child development. One of my best friends is Leo and she is very devoted to her 2 kids and also very much interested in child health, development etc.

"My best friend has Leo North node(like you) and with Cap Asc.He even "looks" fatherly and imposing but he also has never been a fan of children."

My friends, even the much older ones (like this friend of mine who is 15 years older) come to me for advice. I'd say I can sometimes come across as someone they look up to because I seem to always know the solution when they are in trouble.

"How is Pluto/Saturn opp and contra parrallel transits treating you? I have Moon in Cancer too(17 degrees) and there have been some tough instances."

I've been feeling a bit unsettled lately and also a bit apprehensive. Also, I've been feeling like sth is missing but I don't know what and that leads to some form of dissatiscation. It hasn't been too bad though. I've been through worse times :P How about you?

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Aries23Degrees
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Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 11, 2019 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well Saturn is square my Asc now and parallel my Mc. Its a time to go through mandatory conditions where I am tested for competence or I have to get serious and give my all im some way. Its not an easy breezy time.

And true to that theme I started my teaching practicals with this transit. And it has been both an anxious and a tough time.I have done well in my assessments though and yesterday I wrote my final Examination.

When I looked at transits;

Moon in Virgo was square my Sun in Sag.

Trans Moon was also parallel natal Pluto

Trans Mercury exactly opposing natal Mercury and was parallel natal Moon(exact).

Trans Sun contraparallel natal Sun

Nodal axis is exactly conjunct Moon,square Mars and opposed to Mercury.

There was quite a lot of cardinal action with my natal Moon involved.Plus I know that Virgo on the egde of a degree to Libra by transit, tends to be stressful time.

When I wrote my last University exam a decade ago(I started this one in 2018 and finished the last one in 2008!!) it was Virgo energy on Saturn that was on the edge of Virgo/Libra.And this time the Virgo energy was on transiting Moon.

Post the test however, I feel unresolved. I don't know if I did well or not and the anxiety is unbearable(trans Moon was also square natal Neptune exact). I wish I could get a swift turnaround response in such cases. I would sleep better at night

Its amazing though how the clock of the Universe tends to time things with startling synchronicity.I was supposed to write yesterday's exam on the 6th of June. But the Department moved it to the 10th.

On the 6th of June:

Transiting Moon was not in aspect with my Sun nor with Pluto by declination or conventional aspects.

Trans Mercury was not in aspect with my natal Moon by conventional aspects nor by declinations.

Trans Sun was not in aspect to my natal Sun by declinations.

Perhaps the time was just not conducive? It had to happen on the 10th. So it did.

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two-headed-she
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Posts: 57
From: LA
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posted June 11, 2019 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for two-headed-she     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dipping a toe in to say that a few things jump out at me immediately:

Saturn in 3rd house conjunct the IC (believing your reality is the only reality / failing to perceive the reality of others, or having to put the effort in to do so, this having a defining effect on the family / home...to be fair, childhood is cold for these people, as Aries23degrees pointed out, no cuddles, not by a long shot)

Pluto in Leo in the 5th (in a negative light: power struggles in love and romance spilling over onto the kids, inappropriate boundaries with kids, a controlling relationship with romance, learning power via self expression, creativity, etc)

the north node in the 4th in cancer (a person who will resent family for the failures of their career if they have not discovered that roots, foundation, home, and family / feelings offer growth in a way that further accomplishment never could)

the varied Pisces / Aries placements...including that Venus retrograde in the 1st house...this is where I locate a hair trigger in men, when they have a bit of Pisces / Aries tension, I think it's a huge source of frustration and can be quite violent. Then the Venus retrograde placement...lack of identity or faith that they have value, are attractive, are worth love, ect. Resonates with the Saturn in the 4th house reality of a demanding and cold mother...repression of feelings double down with those two things, venus rx and saturn in the 4th...so they are explosive when they are experssed, eventually.

My father's chart is not incredibly different, so I may be projecting, but as I said, this all jumped off the page for me and I thought I'd share.

I'm curious about the reliability of the house system, though. What other info did you use regarding his birth time? Was your father an absolute natural at some skill growing up and into adult hood? I would use that visible North Node to double check it (Cancer South Node's are usually struggling to be an expert and show expertise in an area of life at an early age...if people fail to recognize them, they try to make the tasks harder to complete so that they may earn recognition)...What is the area of expertise he holds?

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Aries23Degrees
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Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
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posted June 12, 2019 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by two-headed-she:
Pluto in Leo in the 5th (in a negative light: power struggles in love and romance spilling over onto the kids, inappropriate boundaries with kids, a controlling relationship with romance, learning power via self expression, creativity, etc)

the north node in the 4th in cancer (a person who will resent family for the failures of their career if they have not discovered that roots, foundation, home, and family / feelings offer growth in a way that further accomplishment never could)


I agree with you there with regards to Pluto in 5th. Pluto brings all sorts of power struggles in the house its in and what you said there about being controlling with children or having the lack.of boundaries "spill over" to kids is true. I am of the same view.

Kani did state that the natives father died when the native was 2 years old and the grandmother(natives mother) became a single parent overnight.

Re-reading all that I realised Neptune was messing with my head as I misunderstood the whole sentence lol.

Its the mother that had to play Mom/Dad to all the boys. So perhaps with the death circumstance highlighting the changes in the home(Saturn/Ic) , this aspect also jointly shows how Mom had to be both Mom(Ic) and Dad(Saturn) to them.

I always get confused with the Ic/Mc situation i.e which situation is which? In other words; which parent is the Mc and which the Ic?

I am thinking that the Ic is the parent who you had more of an interaction with(and not necessarily the Mom).The parent who was more "hands on" in your rearing.

Whilst the Mc represents the parent whom was more distant from you or who was more focused on things outside the home that a closer relationship with them was most unlikely(but it doesn't necessarily always mean the Father)

I also think Pluto in 5th echoes the death or loss of the father don't you think? Since the 5th house(especially in Leo or interacting with Sun)also co-rules & represents all things related to the father.

I have Sun(ruler of 5th) conjunct Neptune for instance and my father was very absent in life.The Ic has Moon there and Mom was very maternal. Ruler of 10th(the parent I least related to or had interactions with) has its ruler (Saturn) in the 8th(loss of relationship)

I find what you said about North node in 4th interesting. I have the North Node parallel Ic & I think my "purpose" or "mission" is tied into providing a stable, consistent family environment or keeping the ties that bind.

The North node is said to be ruled by Saturn in Vedic and I read on Esoteric astrology sites that Saturn is involved in ruling the North node in wesern too.

Mars is said to be associated with the South Node (wasted energy or energy with no purpose) etc. But i don't know it I yet agree with that sentiment as I don't see energy as exclusive but connected.

So the North node does not function in separation to the South node just like Asc does not fuction alone from the Dsc. There is a "butterfly" effect and both are interrelated.

My South Node parallel Mc doesn't mean the "abandonment" of career prospects at all. But it does mean utilizing this energy that is carried over from past lives etc. To build a home centred life(N.Node parallel Ic)

This may mean working in the home, building homes, home improvement projects,managing emotional well-being, assuming more responsibility in child rearing or taking care of others or getting in touch with emotional aspects is a career objective etc.

The two Nodes are not "enemies".That has never made sense to me because its like saying that your head has nothing to do with your feet? The two function in unison. Its about collaboration.


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kani
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Posts: 656
From:
Registered: Oct 2018

posted June 12, 2019 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by two-headed-she:
Dipping a toe in to say that a few things jump out at me immediately:

Saturn in 3rd house conjunct the IC (believing your reality is the only reality / failing to perceive the reality of others, or having to put the effort in to do so, this having a defining effect on the family / home...to be fair, childhood is cold for these people, as Aries23degrees pointed out, no cuddles, not by a long shot)

Pluto in Leo in the 5th (in a negative light: power struggles in love and romance spilling over onto the kids, inappropriate boundaries with kids, a controlling relationship with romance, learning power via self expression, creativity, etc)

the north node in the 4th in cancer (a person who will resent family for the failures of their career if they have not discovered that roots, foundation, home, and family / feelings offer growth in a way that further accomplishment never could)

the varied Pisces / Aries placements...including that Venus retrograde in the 1st house...this is where I locate a hair trigger in men, when they have a bit of Pisces / Aries tension, I think it's a huge source of frustration and can be quite violent. Then the Venus retrograde placement...lack of identity or faith that they have value, are attractive, are worth love, ect. Resonates with the Saturn in the 4th house reality of a demanding and cold mother...repression of feelings double down with those two things, venus rx and saturn in the 4th...so they are explosive when they are experssed, eventually.

My father's chart is not incredibly different, so I may be projecting, but as I said, this all jumped off the page for me and I thought I'd share.

I'm curious about the reliability of the house system, though. What other info did you use regarding his birth time? Was your father an absolute natural at some skill growing up and into adult hood? I would use that visible North Node to double check it (Cancer South Node's are usually struggling to be an expert and show expertise in an area of life at an early age...if people fail to recognize them, they try to make the tasks harder to complete so that they may earn recognition)...What is the area of expertise he holds?


"Saturn in 3rd house conjunct the IC (believing your reality is the only reality / failing to perceive the reality of others, or having to put the effort in to do so, this having a defining effect on the family / home"

that is very true. My father put a very heavy energy onto his family (not his birth family but the one he created : us) and made

"What other info did you use regarding his birth time?"

only what he told me. There is no other source. But he has to be an Aries ascendant. It's just the way he looks.

I agree that a Pisces/Aries mix can be very explosive. He is not the only one I know who has that combo and is inflammable.

"What is the area of expertise he holds?["

I don't know what he was good at while growing up but he was always very good at his job: he was a lathe operator, working with metal and heavy machines. He has very good understanding of mechanics. He could have gone further in his career but he refused because it would mean that he'd sit around in an office all day instead of doing work on site - manual and intellectual work. He would have been bored just sitting around he said

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kani
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posted June 12, 2019 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Aries:

Maybe another interesting thing is that my dad's grandmother (on his father's side) lived with them in the house as well but from what I know she liked to drink a lot and she didn't seem to be of too much help. Can that be seen in my dad's natal?

His Pluto also conjuncts my NN. Do you think that's significant?

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Aries23Degrees
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Posts: 7284
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012

posted June 12, 2019 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kani:
@Aries:

Maybe another interesting thing is that my dad's grandmother (on his father's side) lived with them in the house as well but from what I know she liked to drink a lot and she didn't seem to be of too much help. Can that be seen in my dad's natal?

His Pluto also conjuncts my NN. Do you think that's significant?


I highlighted the strong Neptune theme with Mom right at the beginning. Perhaps she cleaned up her act after the death of his father?

...Further evidence of this is that Moon(maternal) is widely conjunct Mars in Pisces in the 12th. Neptune squares the ruler of the Mc(opposite sex parent).

Perhaps Mom was locked up, institutionalized, an alcoholic, unreliable or was unable to be there consistently in his life?

There is some anger towards Mom too and a defensiveness towards affection that may be unacknowledged by him(Mars/Moon in 12th).

He may even unconsciously break away from people for healthy "space" because that is what he has come to know as a comfort zone(Moon-Uranus square)

Is the identity of Mom unknown? Was she there during his childhood? There is a sense I get from both Moon/Mars in 12th as well as Neptune square Saturn on the Ic that there was confusion or uncertainty regarding Mom.

Perhaps his N.Node in Cancer in 4th is indicative of her lving with them?I can't be sure abour that though.

Also therein is Moon/Uranus square with Uranus in the 2nd house of security. Mom was likely a maverick(Moo Uranus) or was unpredictable herself.

His Pluto on your North node could be an instrumental role he plays(for good or ill as Pluto can go either way) to clarify your path by offering healing or hindrance (Pluto).

Perhaps it is through your interaction with him that you became tougher and resilient.And this resilience helped you to not be intimidated or stand your ground(even as physical intimidation occurs)

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kani
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Posts: 656
From:
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posted June 12, 2019 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you again Aries. It's spot on what you say about the mother. She was not absent, but I think she was overwhelmed. The alcoholic was my father's grandmother (the mother of his father, who died when my dad was young) and I can imagine that my dad's mum didn't really enjoy her company but I don't know for sure.

You asking whether his mum was a maverick....she actually was! She was supposed to marry someone her parents picked for her but she refused and she ran away with the man she was in love with (but who her parents didn't agree with). Her family didn't want to have anything to do with her after that. I think that's quite a daring thing to do for a 17 or 18 year old young woman in those times. And when her husband died she was stuck alone with three kids and an alcoholic mother in law.

And yes there is resentment for his mother that he never could admit to himself but let out on me as I supposedly look like her.

Pluto conj NN in synastry indicating "learning resilience" also makes sense.

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