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Author Topic:   The Pluto transit vs. the Uranus transit(your input)
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake

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posted August 09, 2019 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I mean this specifically for when they are transiting the 1st, 4th,7th or 10th.

Scorpio is exalted when in Uranus and Uranus is in the house of exalted status when in the 8th. This means that Uranus has particular potency here-outside of its 11th house/Aquarius placement.

To me, the two can be very difficult to differentiate as both can denote sudden and unequivocal change etc.

I have noticed that with Uranus, its often very necessary and imminent. Its an adjustment that one must quickly accept and just "go along" with. Even when inconvenient or ill-timed. But so can it be with Pluto.

Uranus in Aqua formed an opposition aspect with the solar Arc Moon(natal ruler of 4th) in Leo when we moved homes. I didn't have a say. It was not my decision to make but it didn't stop the event from affecting my life irrevocably.

For me post the move, it was an incredible life perspective change. Completely turned my world upside-down from what I had grown accustomed to.

And now to my question(finally) ; I was watching "Lord of the Rings:The fellowship of the ring" and I was wondering about the possible transits for Frodo Baggins(the one whose fate grows most inextricably combined with the ring).

Would we say that the moment Gandalf sends him and Samwise Gamgee off to steer the Black Riders/ Saruman and Sauron from finding the ring etc. would we(hypothetically) be dealing with a Uranus or a Pluto transit in his chart?

My guess is that it is more Uranus than Pluto.In that Uranus would affect his Ic (hypothetically) because the planet disrupts ones way of life and in this case, plunged Frodo into a world that his naive self was ill-prepared for. And yet had to learn to instantly navigate.

Add to that, there is a point where he brings the ring to the Elves only to find that the ring cannot stay with the Elves either. This is Uranus(surprise and inconvenience) as he didn't expect to continue with the journey after that and had to abandon expectations of returning home.

But then again, when I consider how he is forever changed by the journey (Pluto) .That it deepens his understanding of the world outside the Shire (Middle Earth).That he is met by both benevolent (Elves /Dwarves and mortal men) as well as malevolent (Orcs /Saruman /Black riders) forces, I think that perhaps it is Pluto? I mean there are so many close brushes with death.

Pluto transits also split the world into a clear "good" vs "evil" etc. Allies and adversaries are not to be taken lightly as they are very powerful.And sometimes the two are indistinguishable-which means that one must be on their guard(Pluto).

Add to that, for Frodo its an experience that makes it improbable that he would easily go back to his old way of life and live like he once did in his quiet village (The Shire). Pluto does that too-erases the "comfort" of the past.

What do yoy guys think? Is it Pluto? or is it Uranus? And can you make a case for your choice?

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Selenite
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posted August 09, 2019 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selenite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uranus has me feeling manic and like I need the change with every fiber of my being. Pluto makes me feel like my world is falling apart and I don't know what's going on until I 'die' and see the change as a good thing. But in my experience changes during Uranus transits are initiated by me, while Pluto tends to be this 'thing' killing off parts of my life without my permission. Lol

Oh but as for your question, I have not read or seen Lord of the Rings, but I would argue for Uranus as the initial transit, and then Pluto as the journey unfolds. Or even Neptune.... Or probably all 3? It is quite a journey. Maybe a Uranus / ASC conjunction, followed by Pluto/Moon square, along with a Neptune/Sun square.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted August 09, 2019 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is quite intricate right. But I think I was most curious about the start off. Coz I think that is the reference point I use when illustrating Uranus.

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kirki
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posted August 09, 2019 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kirki     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tr uranus is sudden and fast,while tr pluto creates emotional procedures.For example ,as i see it,if tr uranus conjuct venus ,someone could go buy bread and end up having relationship with someone that met at bakery.Tr pluto conjuct venus is about very strong feelings that are being developed when transit occurs.

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Graham
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posted August 10, 2019 03:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Pluto is the journey, through which Frodo was tempered in the fire (and thus changed forever).

Uranus is the crossroad decisions that he had to be make along the way (to pursue a new path - or stay on the well-trodden path, of Saturn security).

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Aries23Degrees
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posted August 10, 2019 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kirki:
Tr uranus is sudden and fast,while tr pluto creates emotional procedures.For example ,as i see it,if tr uranus conjuct venus ,someone could go buy bread and end up having relationship with someone that met at bakery.Tr pluto conjuct venus is about very strong feelings that are being developed when transit occurs.

Hmmm.Can you elaborate on what you mean by "emotional procedures"?

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Aries23Degrees
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posted August 10, 2019 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

Pluto is the journey, through which Frodo was tempered in the fire (and thus changed forever).

Uranus is the crossroad decisions that he had to be make along the way (to pursue a new path - or stay on the well-trodden path, of Saturn security).


Oh ok. This is an interesting take. Never thought about it like that

I viewed Gollum as Uranus. Sometimes benevolent and sometimes malevolent(maverick traits). And I viewed the finger biting incident right at the cusp end of that journey to be the Uranus imprint of an unexpected twist and had a "critical degree" symbolism.

In that there was a last-minute "shift" by Frodo to keep the ring which made the whole journey redundant. So Gollum's role in attacking Frodo was (ironically) what saved the day.

Samwise showed courage and is in my view, the real unsung hero of the whole trilogy.As was the case with Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter one. And I imagine what the outcome would have been had Frodo perished together with Gollum in the Volcano?

So in your view Uranus starts when Frodo sets off with Samwise on their own and without the "protection" of the fellowship? This after the attack from the orcs?

And Pluto being where he endured the last temptation? hmmm..interesting. I thought Pluto is when he leaves Middle Earth with the Elves. It is a "life-perspective" change i.e a symbolic "death" or what have you.

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Graham
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posted August 10, 2019 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Oh ok. This is an interesting take. Never thought about it like that

I viewed Gollum as Uranus. Sometimes benevolent and sometimes malevolent(maverick traits). And I viewed the finger biting incident right at the cusp end of that journey to be the Uranus imprint of an unexpected twist and had a "critical degree" symbolism.

In that there was a last-minute "shift" by Frodo to keep the ring which made the whole journey redundant. So Gollum's role in attacking Frodo was (ironically) what saved the day.

Samwise showed courage and is in my view, the real unsung hero of the whole trilogy.As was the case with Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter one. And I imagine what the outcome would have been had Frodo perished together with Gollum in the Volcano?

So in your view Uranus starts when Frodo sets off with Samwise on their own and without the "protection" of the fellowship? This after the attack from the orcs?

And Pluto being where he endured the last temptation? hmmm..interesting. I thought Pluto is when he leaves Middle Earth with the Elves. It is a "life-perspective" change i.e a symbolic "death" or what have you.


Yes. ... Uranus awakens us to what lies beyond the limitations imposed by our childhood conditioning (symbolised by the rings of Saturn). Those who are ready to be awakened will follow the Uranus path, and those who are not ready will continue along the path of their childhood/Saturn conditioning. ... Neptune then dissolves the barriers/glass ceilings created by our Saturn-conditioned fears/expectations ... and we move (consciously) onto the path of Pluto, to embark upon a journey of self-discovery (or shadow identification and embracing) from which we can never return/revert to our former childhood conditioned self.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted August 14, 2019 04:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Yes. ... Uranus awakens us to what lies beyond the limitations imposed by our childhood conditioning (symbolised by the rings of Saturn). Those who are ready to be awakened will follow the Uranus path, and those who are not ready will continue along the path of their childhood/Saturn conditioning.

Neptune then dissolves the barriers/glass ceilings created by our Saturn-conditioned fears/expectations. And we move (consciously) onto the path of Pluto, to embark upon a journey of self-discovery (or shadow identification and embracing) from which we can never return/revert to our former childhood conditioned self.


Wow. So well said.

Sorry I took so long to respond to this. I lost my footing on where this thread went.

Interesting how it was Neptune in Pisces trine Saturn Scorpio that I felt my sense of "reality" shifting. But it wasn't literally "shifting" ofcourse(more symbolic really).

But I found myself looking more for symbolism/totems etc. to understand the meanings of the trail life is revealing to me.

Uranus/Pluto reacted with my Moon/Mars/Mercury t-square in 2016. There was undoing of the old and things changing irrevocably where they can't be "undone".

At the time trans Sat/Nep were conj and square natal Uranus respectively. Some limitation on unadulterated freedom was also had. In that how both mysterious(Nep) and lonesome(Sat) my new position really was. I

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Randall
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posted August 19, 2019 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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Aries23Degrees
Knowflake

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posted August 21, 2019 06:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uranus is definitely more externally manifested. Uranus definitely affects significant moves or relocations imo. A "fresh" start or something to that effect. Pluto is more the "inner" work.

Too many people I have chatted to with fixed Sun sign are affected by the current Uranus transit in Taurus.

And its abundantly clear to me that it points to either a significant relocation for them,the beginning of a new era in their life or the closing off of an important chapter of who they were etc.

So people with close aspects to Uranus are likely to find themselves experiencing the above stipulated changes: Taurus Sun,Leo Sun,Scorpio Sun and Aqua Sun.
Especially those born between the 0-10 degree mark.

An April born Taurus guy I know has relocated.

A July born Leo guy I know has also relocated.

My sister-May born Taurus has made up her mind to relocate next year.

My Dad(Leo cusp) has gone into retirement. Specifically left his company when Uranus retro in Tau/Aries.

I have a friend of mine with Aqua Sun whom I warned that changes are afoot for him and he laughed at that because he says he is comfortable where he is at.

He has Aqua 16 Degree. So perhaps for him there is still more time? The wave will likely hit in 2 years time.

This all goes for progressed Uranus or Solar Arc Uanus on Sun too-its the "wipe the slate clean" or start afresh transit for sure.

I am however not too sure about progressed Sun-Uranus transit.I am sitting with that right now and should know within this year or the next as to whether the impact is also as profound asthr ones spoken of.

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zodiaccode
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posted August 21, 2019 06:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zodiaccode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I don't have much to add. I see your Uranus argument and kind of agree. However, the mere fact that the ring is a symbol of "power" yells pluto. Also, the ring transforms whoever possesses it, in a very emotional and possessive way. Again another pluto.

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Aries23Degrees
Knowflake

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posted August 21, 2019 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zodiaccode:
Well, I don't have much to add. I see your Uranus argument and kind of agree. However, the mere fact that the ring is a symbol of "power" yells pluto. Also, the ring transforms whoever possesses it, in a very emotional and possessive way. Again another pluto.

Indeed. I agree that Pluto is the ring. I think what I was referring to was not necessarily Frodo putting the ring on.But when Gandalf sends him on the quest to get the ring as far as possible from the Shire.

He packs his bags in haste,is accompanied by Samwise and is off on an unexpected journey(much like his Uncle Bilboa Baggins before).

There is something very Uranus -like about that event. In that it is both inconvenient and unavoidable.

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