posted October 20, 2019 03:36 AM            

The drama is never ending, conflict rages across all the family including parents, siblings and inlaws.

My question is to thoose who has it in your own chart or have, or have had, relationships with such a person.

Does it ever ease? If one overcame such a aspect, do you know if it were a crisis or a event that changed it or something else?

posted October 20, 2019 04:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScandinavianCrab:
Someone close to me has this aspect as their most exact aspect in their shart. The orb is about 40 minutes.
The moon is in Leo and the person is a Cancer rising with Venus conjunct ascendant.

The drama is never ending, conflict rages across all the family including parents, siblings and inlaws.

My question is to thoose who has it in your own chart or have, or have had, relationships with such a person.

Does it ever ease? If one overcame such a aspect, do you know if it were a crisis or a event that changed it or something else?

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Hey Crab

In a nutshell: yes.
I have it and honestly the only thing it does to me is mean I have to be careful about what emotions I show because *others* tend to react to them a little bit too much. If I am annoyed it can come off as raging anger, if I am polite it can come across as flirty and so on... It seems the intensity of what I truly feel never reaches the outside, when I am undone people never see it, but when I express something basic and simple it seems magnified for others (I also have Pluto sextile venus).
My mother is not a Hades moon mum. She was terrible, don't get me wrong, but none of the gaslighting, cruel Pluto stuff people are dead certain about. She also wasn't a typical Saturn mum.

That said, I have recently started to think that my relative ease with my Plutonian energies comes from the fact I have Pluto conjunct Saturn, so Saturn also squares my moon.
I tend to think having those two planets together creates an opportunity for balance. Saturn won't let me give into the extremes of Pluto: drama, manipulation, violence, and Pluto won't let me fall into the traps of Saturn: depression, stillness... it's like a volcano that never erupts to the destruction of everything around but that also never is asleep.

To be truly personal, I think in an intimate relationship I would be "dramatic" in terms of I just have really intense emotions; but I would never make a scene (or I'd do it in private, one on one and through my funny dramatic Leo energy lens, after I have dealt with the emotion and the primal reaction has worn off) or impose my emotions on a partner, loving to me means I feel a LOT but also deeply want my partner to be happy so, not caged or put down by the weight of anything I bring; and to be loved means I should be understood and not judged for that intensity.
I pity those who'd enter a relationship with me not being fully honest and trying to manipulate me as much as I envy anyone I would be able to trust and love with no restraint.

posted October 20, 2019 09:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ScandinavianCrab:
Someone close to me has this aspect as their most exact aspect in their chart. The orb is about 40 minutes.
The moon is in Leo and the person is a Cancer rising with Venus conjunct ascendant.

The drama is never ending, conflict rages across all the family including parents, siblings and inlaws.

My question is to those who have had it in their own chart or have, or have had, relationships with such a person.

Does it ever ease? If one overcame such a aspect, do you know if it were a crisis or a event that changed it or something else?

---

Ever ease? Not likely.Not unless the self becomes aware that THEY are very much the respondents to the drama they claim they don't want.

The turning point could be the death or loss of a close dependent,moving away from homeland/home, living alone and reflecting a lot(a mixed bag here), an illness that has one bed-ridden(stuck with only their thoughts) or the person upon whom the projections are cast upon is discovered to be far different from initially thought.

Pluto/Ic are widely squared in my chart and its effects are (upon reading up on them)similar to Pluto-Moon. And I have always seen this aspect as contributing to the defensiveness of the closer Mars/Ic aspect.

The turning point for me was when I went to therapy and realised that my "conditioning"(Moon or Ic) isn't who I am but is the context into which I was born.

So my family is external to me. Though I love them, I can be detached and still maintain care from a healthy distance.That is for my sanity.I come first.

And with the Pluto-Moon person, the triggers set off by familiar or family patterns of behaviour can recreate drama and fighting(if not adressed) and bottleneck situations are not avoided or dealt with effectively.

If family get togethers cause trauma, don't go. If dealing with all members of the family all at once is overwhelming, deal with them individually.

Fix the self first and then....Start with self and then..Always be right with self before....

posted October 20, 2019 01:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Not unless the self becomes aware that THEY are very much the respondents to the drama they claim they don't want.

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Key notion, but being a respondent and wanting the thing are indeed different, when you say "claim they don't want" it makes it sound as if they invite it but pretend they don't want it, which is impossibly twisted, when in reality I feel it's more of a "can't help responding to it in the air around while truly not wanting it", which is quite different. I do agree, the way out consists in realising that just because we're sensitive enough to perceive it, it's still our responsibility and decision to decide and manage to ignore it to the benefit of our own emotions; mastering the line between a reaction and an opinion; but imho it's important to keep in mind that for moon/Pluto people this "excess" is norm and any talk that makes it seem pathological and over-everything encourages a poor attitude consisting in yielding to it and cutting oneself from others. It's an inclination, not an illness

posted October 20, 2019 11:43 PM            

Hmm..can you clarify what you mean there by "excess is a norm for Moon/Pluto?"

What I meant by responding to drama is that one can see a tabloid on the stand. Their attention going towards the headlines that somehow impact them etc.

The initial response is to say "well, I don't respond to trash!" i.e speaking of tge tabloid report. But then again reading through it only to become outraged at how "trashy" it is i.e "I can't believe what people are saying about me out there!"

Whereas if an individual is not focused upon the stand and perhaps notices something else or has their attention fixed elsewhere, they couldn't care less about what is being said about them etc. Because they pay those magazines no mind.Then here the native is not a respondent at all.

With Moon/Pluto natives I know, its like they believe the intense focus on a wound heals it.That if they speak more about pain, they overcome it.

But what I find is that they become trapped in the drama of it.That it defines them in some way because there is too much charge on their end around it(even as they say they don't want it).

Ever met someone who says "I don't want to talk about this issue. I am over it!" ?And each time they remind you of how they don't want to talk about that issue that they've overcome?

What you end up knowing them for is that they don't want to talk about that issue they don't want to talk about.

The issue(unbeknownst to them) defines them even as they insist on resisting to talk of it i.e "don't raise the subject of Donald Trump with Mpho. He doesn't want to talk about that".

posted October 21, 2019 03:27 PM            

>>>>> With Moon/Pluto natives I know, it's like they believe the intense focus on a wound heals it.That if they speak more about pain, they overcome it.
This is actually true lol It's not a rule, but there are many things that are healed through that sort of repetition and focus, it's almost the concept of therapy, you reflect on the same events over and over again until you find the right lighting, the proper angle to approach them in ways that allow for healing. But I absolutely hear that unless you're a therapist it must be horrible to hear someone rant about their break up for months if not years on end Again, it's about the proportions not the behaviour in itself.

I think the trap comes from, moon-Pluto wants to vomit the pain and expose it outside, to analyse it, it wants to dig, deeper, and deeper, paint every room in it... my feeling about Pluto is "the only way out is through", so it craves that emphasis, that alienation, that dedication to pain and obsession... to wear it off! lol but it can take so long (and Pluto has stamina, so.... I mean "looooong") so that others do define the native because the native seems lost in their drama, their pain. But I'd say to us, it's very much apnoea and we only lose ourselves to find ourselves better on the other side, so from our perspective, it would sound a bit like "why are others so mean to me defining me by my issues when I'm slaving my butt to overcome them?". It's not the moon-Pluto process that is so bad, it's more the scale of it, if it were kept indoors and nobody knew about it, there would be no trap. It's just that it can be hard to keep it in when the process feels like an eruption. I know I had to learn to manage my relationships when having a crisis, to avoid feeling trapped. It's been so long now I don't even notice anymore, but there is a dose of the turmoil, the action that I keep out of my daily life. Because the biggest hurt is to have others call "drama" what truly is life or death to you. I have a level of feeling at which I know I can share with others and have healthy interactions. As I've said, some levels, the intensity is never understood outside the Pluto circles.

>>>>> Ever met someone who says "I don't want to talk about this issue. I am over it!" ?And each time they remind you of how they don't want to talk about that issue that they've overcome?
OMG I hate those people!!!! lol one of my colleague is SO like that, she comes out of a meeting going "did you see so and so's face when they announced my promotion? I don't care!" yeah, right! lol I detest that attitude, see for example that's something I don't relate to at all, in fact, I make it my business when I don't want to talk about something, to NOT talk about it, because more often than not saying "I don't want to talk about it" becomes an excuse for others to mention it and blame you for it "you mentioned it!" (huh, yeah, so that we would NOT talk about it!). I do have grey areas where I'll use a "I'd rather not talk about that" if I can take talking about the subject but don't really feel like it and fear the person is going to go there and I try to avoid disappointment or something. For example, I do tell my mum to not mention my health because I know if I don't she'll go straight there and I know she doesn't have a thing to bring to that table, it'll only exhaust me and make her look silly to me. Of course she'll tease me about "wasn't going to but you are now!" but it never turns sour or oppressive, just some kind of dance we occasionally have.
I think the extreme "I don't want to talk about it" when the person becomes defined by it, is symptomatic of "weak" Pluto people, who feel overwhelmed by the energy and basically express every fear with no filter, but that's hardly every Pluto person. Also, the same sentence in a sweet Cancer's mouth may come off as "aww, poor delicate flower, you heard her, let's not mention her dead goldfish" but in the mouth of Plutonian it's more likely to be received as "See! She says she doesn't want to talk about it, but she's the one here mentioning it!!!". I think you use the perfect word when you say "define" and definitions are very much about in and out, it's not a strict line, some of what you are inside defines you and also some of what comes from the outside, I guess that's where I take issue, sure there are plenty of difficult sides to moon-Pluto that account for these situations, but there is also a prescribed response to the primal energy, from others, that participate in trapping and defining the Pluto person in these unhealthy ways.

I think what you say is the truth for textbook immature Pluto people. Maturity goes a long way in altering that and making it all relative, and so do positive close relationships. I remember my extra Plutonian grandmother talking about her pain (terminal illness) and collecting slammed doors from relatives and judgements and criticism and basically everything any reasonable person would blame a Pluto one for "you're obsessive, you don't want to get better....". She never complained to me. She always had her most beautiful and sincere smile for me. The only reason I see is that I never defined her by her pain and so called drama, but I validated it. I feel Pluto needs a platform, support, more than containment "the only way out is through".
"I don't want to talk about it" - but I do want to talk, let's talk about you, why don't you want to talk about it?

posted October 21, 2019 05:02 PM            

Do you have any Virgo/Gemini anywhere or 6th/3rd house placements? I never get away from the usual "now just wait a minute there mister. You missed something here.You see I think...." etc. responses from these people

I agree with what you have said actually.And I followed your chain of thought. And I love the apnoea metaphor you used to describe the sensation of being caught up and going into the problem without reservation.

I empathize wholeheartedly. And perhaps it comes across like I am negative in my posts? But its not to put down Pluto at all nor make it seem like Pluto energy is all "doom and gloom" that the native can't help but experience.

I have Pluto/Venus/Saturn in Scorpio in the 7th.I have come to understand the intensity and focus of Pluto energy.Not to mention its vulnerability(which is rarely touched on because Pluto persons are often perceived to be "hardcore" etc.)

What I wanted to emphasise and always try to convey with Pluto is MOMENTUM.Heavy progressive and unstoppable MOMENTUM.

Where an everlanche goes is where an everlanche goes. That's nature.But if it can go towards an area where it causes less damage and death,then that is beneficial.

And like Pluto, the question is not whether one can switch the dominoe effect of emotions "on" or "off".Thats not practical and would be like asking someone to drain a river with a teaspoon.

The focus is rather where the energy goes.Where is this forceful energy heading? And will I like the outcome long-term when its there? Therein lies the rub.

So I champion the notion that "where focus goes,energy flows".And this should be tattooed on every face of a Pluto person because what can happen is that without this cosmic disclaimer, the native can feel like things happen "to" them instead of "because" of them etc.(and I have also touched on this before)

With Pluto-Moon, the conditioning is psyhological and perhaps the most difficult to recognize and manage successfully.As the Moon is what feels "normal" to the native, whilst Pluto attached there heightens the attachment to that "normal" considerably(whether "good"or "ill").

At the end there I spoke of beginning with the self and working to recondition and rewire these learned responses i.e to be looking at errors, betrayal, possibilities for loss and unseen danger etc.

Its not an overnight job and takes time as the Moon is what feels secure.And who would want to give up security? But its the focus on the momentum of starting something else(Pluto's strongest trait) that shifts the emotions that do not serve you. And this is crucial.

It feels "natural" to Moon-Pluto to be intense.Indeed be hard wired and invested.But be mindful of WHERE this beam of heat is slicing through and whether the outcome will please you? i.e in the long term, does it matter to dig up the past scars(which are ocean plenty) and dive into the rabbit hole to where there is no end?

Or is it a worthwhile momentum to shift the focus to finding out what I want for me right NOW and become (everyday and every minute) the person I choose to be?

Yes the flashbacks of the past may come to stunt this new person we are trying to build.Sometimes even as long as months. But these are temporary roadblocks made by a subconscious energy rewiring its habitual patterns of pain-body memories.

We work through them. Especially if we are intent on changing inside/out , there is always mental resistance to change "what is"-even when it hurts us. And that is because pain itself starts to feel like comfort once nestled in it.

I find it grossly erroneous for therapists to claim that healing comes from digging into the past. That "if you don't know your past,you doom your present" narrative is to me misguided.

What is in your past is more hurt and more pain to deal with and regurgitate i.e "oh, I remember when this happened to me" OR "I recall when you did that" etc.

Unless the past recollection is meant to only recover good feelings that are life affirming, I wouldn't advise the Moon-Pluto individual to try and dive in there.

It creates a pain-body ego that keeps the walls up i.e"I have been burned bad in the past and I'll be damned to let myself be that vulnerable again" etc. Which altogether defeats the desired need for true intimacy.

The keyword for me is always to focus on WHERE your attention flows. Always WHERE is more important than trying to dumb down the passion and intensity that is Pluto-Moon.As that part can never caese. Not ever.

posted October 23, 2019 02:29 PM            

It's kind of comforting to see how you both acknowledge the "issues" of moon/Pluto where from my experience of this particular person there is not an ounce of self reflection. I will have to put my hopes on to a few more years of life experience will ease it because at this point i have detached my self from this person more that i want, but i can at the same time see no other way to deal with it.

What i can see from you both is that you are (of course) speaking about things from an inside-out perspective while i am now used to observe it from the outside, and because of that it took me a couple of re-reads to wrap my head around your reflections about it. (while at the same time acknowledging that each individuals way of perceiving this aspect will be as unique as it's natal chart)

@MoonBeth
I dont know if it's the way you write or your way of observing your self - which i think is crystal clear, or a combination, that i really appreciate to read about.
I'm sure though it's a question of some kind of opposition (and of course attraction) to my own (lack of) abilities in the same areas.

I don't know if you remember my chart but my moon also have the square to Saturn, and a loose trine to Pluto, and i can really relate to many things you are describing.

This:
"after I have dealt with the emotion and the primal reaction has worn off) or impose my emotions on a partner, loving to me means I feel a LOT but also deeply want my partner to be happy so, not caged or put down by the weight of anything I bring; and to be loved means I should be understood and not judged for that intensity."

i can relate to so much! But it takes a lot of self reflection to balance that "scale".
I have referred those feelings to my Libra ascendant but i recently realized that in terms of declinations i also have Venus parallel Mercury (within 1 degree). Do you know at what degrees of declination your planets are?

That balancing of the moon between Pluto and Saturn is actually a topic that i have reflected about in a different matter the latest time.. It occurs in a relationship chart with someone i adore and i am hoping for some kind of balance coming out of it rather than all the "shadow" sides of the outer planets.. I guess and hope that the future will tell what it might symbolize.

Either wise i think your reasoning is logical and reasonable (as usual ).

@Aries23Degrees
I think you're right about reflection during some kind of isolation. But i think that would have to come after some kind of insight and realization first that there may be a reason for all the conflicts that necessarily don't always originates because of, or from, the "other" persons.
That there might be a need for some kind of change in one owns perception of the world and the family and the people who are a part of it.

As of now there is nothing wrong with the 'self' only all other people that dare to call them self family.

I imagine having Pluto-moon in fixed signs, like Leo, might need more work than mutable or cardinal. But that's just my own guessing.

posted October 23, 2019 02:35 PM            

Notice none of the Fixed Signs share a ruler?

Notice two pairs of mutable Signs in square share a ruler?

Cardinal is kind of in between.

posted October 23, 2019 02:46 PM            

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posted October 23, 2019 06:27 PM            

Crab,
It's not the way I put things, it's that big fat astro crush you've had on me since you've seen my chart (I didn't remember your moon-Saturn but I do remember your 9th house sun lots for us to talk about!). It's ok, I'm still nervous thinking of the day your over-idealisation is going to wear off and I'm going to have to earn your friendliness, but so far I'm surviving

Aries,
Will decidedly reply better, of course I'm a 1st house Virgo sun Haha
And don't worry, you don't come off as negative at all, I am very sensitive and sometimes you sound maybe too "strict", but it's really subtle and it's nothing negative, thank you for being a class act about my pickiness

Ami, I'll be your guinea pig, if you don't find enough in what I wrote above, maybe you can give me situations I could project myself into and tell you how I have reacted/would react, would that be useful for you?

posted November 03, 2019 06:21 AM            

More repetition, you don't come across as negative, but probably because you are very thorough and everything is always very well explained and so sensible, when you sometimes state something a bit bluntly it breaks the flow, as if there were those rivers of knowledge and observations and then bang. Door. I think Pluto calls for that, it's also that I'm quite sensitive about it. Astrological condemnations grieve me so much I tend to be a bit reactive about anything that could lead to them. Again, thanks for understanding it and not being offended by it 😊

>>>> Pluto persons are often perceived to be "hardcore" etc.)
That. So true. It's the poor incarnation of that whole badass archetype, that because you can take tough emotions and survive hells you have to be hardcore yourself. In reality it's quite the opposite. Pluto comes undone and regenerates, that's how it survives nuclear explosions, by embracing them and accepting to be destroyed. It's not easy and certainly not "not feeling", it's like that whole "not giving a **** " shtick, people imagine it's not responding to anything emotionally, that's sociopathic behaviour, not giving a **** is more about picking your battles and your degree of emotional involvement (which only you can be the judge of, saying that for all those gaslighting rhetoric arseholes who love to tell others "you're being emotional" just because they are being told... please ^^)

Momentum IS a critical word. I love that you use avalanches as a metaphor, I usually use lahars lol exact same business 😉 Such wonderful natural cautionary tales for Pluto intensity left unfocused. And yet, somehow I also want to speak in favour of no focus, because you actually sound very Plutonian wanting to focus that energy, of course it's nothing like repression, but it is controlling it and yielding to any form of control is already playing Pluto's sick game (in a way, potentially). So, I'd say that sometimes it's also good to just let the energy out, without focus, of course it doesn't mean at random either, don't let the lahars destroy a whole city, but not channelling it, just letting it out somewhere it won't hurt anybody, that's not exactly focus, but boy is it GOOD, that's very therapeutic and necessary sometimes. Channelling is great effort, sometimes Pluto needs to explode precisely because it has been focused for so long.
I know my way of dealing with that is physical activity, I love dance, that's my focus, I also love walking, that's my outlet. Difference means everything and I need both in my life, one to feel happy, the other to feel calm.

I still feel the emotions happen to me because I can't decide what will touch me.
But, I do agree that from that, what I do of them is my responsibility. Then again, of course, grey areas. I remember crying as a girl after being shown pictures of poached elephants at school and the other children didn't respond with the same intensity, a lot of them didn't even care and laughed at the funny poses of the elephants with their knees buckled, where I saw fallen gods, they saw clowns. In that case I felt it was done to me and I was treated as if it were because of me, as if it was drama and I was creating it (everything you say basically lol) and that was so difficult to swallow because I was making no scene, tears just rolled down my face, I didn't even really react when the children all started to turn to me and mock. It hurt and it also hurt seeing that it seemed to matter to only me, it hurt even more and for ages to be blamed for feeling the way I felt when I didn't ask of anyone to share or even understand the feelings or their intensity. It hurts to not being just let be. That's vintage Pluto loneliness, when you ache with your body and soul and are told that "it's just you, you put yourself in that state..." or it's just "drama" that's where I think there's a limit to "it's because of us". "drama" to me would be if we put ourselves in those states ONLY for others to see, while reality is way more about the feelings are so intense you exude them, or on the opposite, you have learnt to bury them so deep people push those buttons without even realising it, but in no way is Pluto a drama queen, it's a sucking chest wound, that's essentially different.
That's part of what makes moon-Pluto so difficult, redirecting energy that you see coming takes time, craft and practice, but redirecting emotions that can surge all of a sudden and take you by surprise in nature, that's another business.
It does feel normal to us, but also, it's our emotions, so it does appear under a form we have no say about, after all, you don't decide to be repulsed by raw fish or to be attracted by certain colours,... the idea that some of those emotions can't have the same freedom because their nature makes the momentum they get potentially dangerous can be very undermining and make one feel as inferior, wrong, too different. What of me if my emotions aren't right? And there goes the common fascination for sociopaths, people who are socially acknowledged as "feeling wrong" and those eternal states of "I relate so much and yet I'd never do what they do", "am I right?" "are they wrong?" "why are their feelings given so much credit for their actions when I get zero for acting completely differently with equally or sometimes even stronger feelings of rejection and what not in life?".

Loving is one cool thing, I feel that when you love for real, there's somehow always an outlet. I have dance and there isn't a single emotion I cannot channel into it. I love it so much, I don't even need to have the room, time and/or be in the studio, listening to the corresponding music can get me there, sometimes I need to hear a waltz, sometimes I just need a deep voice you'd spin to, or a hip hop beat. I hear it and it connects to my whole body, and just like that, the emotions have a place, they have a direction, a use, it's focused in the best way ever: to create.

Yes, I did connect to your "beginning with the self" although sometimes I use that to actually allow for the instinctive response to go lol It's extremely rare, most of the time I feel awfully boring because I don't allow myself to be spontaneous in my responses, but once in a blue moon, I think about it and go "you know what? I'll go with my guts".
I think it's very important to allow yourself that when you have Pluto energy, if you constantly treat yourself as a feral, you end up not socialising, or very poorly. I still find it the most difficult thing ever and regret so much it is so necessary in this world, it has certainly hindered my progression as a person (academically, professionally...) but I also have grown to appreciate the necessity of the exercise and the 'reward' of doing it well enough that you can also be yourself here and there.

>>>> But be mindful of WHERE this focus is i.e in the long term, does it matter to dig up the past scars(which are ocean plenty) and dive into the rabbit hole to where there is no end?
Yes it does, I mean, not in itself, but revisiting some wounds can help prevent repetition. For example, I do think about one relationship that felt so painful at some point when I experience similar emotions. It's a small scar at that point, not some sucking chest wound, but going back there is very helpful in distancing myself and getting some clarity with the new situation and the reason I can do that without propelling myself back into the pain is because I dug til I found China on the other side.
That said I agree that some past wounds are better left forgotten (as much as possible), I have discarded therapists for induced memories reasons and there are things I know I went through that I don't care to dig up. But those are very different to me. Purging a negative emotion is essential to me to prevent it from festering. It's difficult to explain but it feels very different from being stuck in the past and failing to evolve in the now. So, depending on the situation digging up something buried: nah. Digging til you find a resting place for negative shite: yay 😊
Therapy also has both sides, there is that idea that you need to sort your past to have a present, but sorting that past often amounts to being able to say "it's done now, I need to move on", so really, it's result oriented, that you feel no need or ability to dig up the past without being trapped into it and regressing, doesn't mean digging up = regression, it just means it's not the best technique for you or even for a specific problem you're tackling, those things end up awfully individual and intimate, hence why cookbook therapy and astrology can be so dangerous if one sticks to the book too much. The revelations comes when something makes you tick, good or bad, and it doesn't discard the body of work you're exploring from either, I have read stupid **** about me astrologically that by alerting me to the potential reading mistakes have made the whole thing more interesting and expanded my views of certain aspects, planets... that whole "past" thing is very much the same.

>>>> Unless the past recollection is meant to only recover good feelings that are life affirming
That, I'll plain disagree with because it sounds like wishful thinking to me (and it irritates my obsession with "balance" lol Good is only worth it if you have bad to balance it with etc... 😝 ). First because there are no such feelings in most of my past lol and also because I'd feel like I'm lying to myself and sugar coating things and I would begin to distrust those feelings and extend my suspicions to anyone trying to nurture them in me.... *that* Pluto side lol (helped by my Capricorn moon and Virgo sun). So I'd say good or bad, explore your past to understand, but don't dwell in there or try to change it.
My reaction to those certainly isn't "I'll de dammed if I'm vulnerable again" but "In hindsight I understand the problem wasn't my vulnerability, I was fine, it wasn't my fault or me being weak that I ended up so burnt". It still makes me ******** scared to be hurt again because of how hurt I get when I get hurt, but it doesn't change me and me is someone with the ability to open up, so when I feel like I'm opening up, I let it happen, avoiding my own feelings to avoid them being hurt is no gain anyway.

Choice is always there sure but I feel calmer looking at things as a balance to find between shaping the course of life and letting life run its course, steering the ship to safe harbour while enjoying the waves on the way and why not letting yourself drift a little before you start steering again? It's those little experiments that make you better at steering when the ocean becomes so violent not being able to would mean death 😊

posted November 03, 2019 09:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
Hey Crab

In a nutshell: yes.
I have it and honestly the only thing it does to me is mean I have to be careful about what emotions I show because *others* tend to react to them a little bit too much. If I am annoyed it can come off as raging anger, if I am polite it can come across as flirty and so on... It seems the intensity of what I truly feel never reaches the outside, when I am undone people never see it, but when I express something basic and simple it seems magnified for others (I also have Pluto sextile venus).

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posted November 03, 2019 10:41 AM            

I want to revisit this discussion from another perspective tbh.I am going through the Pluto-Moon transit now: most days I feel extremely touchy. So i get that this is a very sensitive position. Not at all the stonewall "tough" persona I had expected to emulate.

I think it'll be clear afterwards what the crux of this energy is. But i do agree with a lot of what you wrote there.The part especially where life presents a situation that evokes intense emotions.

Your story of elephant poachers and children laughing got me in my feelings. I think that's tragic(Cancer Moon here) and I can certainly see how that can be a "bottleneck" situation.

posted November 09, 2019 09:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
It was a thorough response.And i understand your pov

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You're a rockstar Aries, truly

Yes! It's funny because anyone asks me about my emotions or even personality outside an astrological context and my prime answer is: sensitivity. It's all it's about.

I should have begun with that story because it embodies my Pluto moon to me and it explains why I can react so touchily when people talk about it with examples like your tabloid stand metaphor. The tabloid thing is real, but because I receive it in my elephant context... and so on

posted November 12, 2019 12:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i think if people consistently take you wrong it's probably not all of them but you who's doing it

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That can certainly be true, and probably is much or most of the time, but there was an interesting discussion on another thread about the exceptions to the rule. Because there are exceptions to the rule, it's important to not make snap or absolute judgement about others even based on continuing/repeating patterns. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/241412.html