posted October 24, 2019 02:25 AM            

Materially/intellectually, unfortunately no, as the Angles are so crucial to this interpretation.

Good news is that one can use different methods to figure out a fairly accurate chart/birth time. There are two main methods of chart rectification. The quick and dirty approximate method of looking at the person's looks and overall personality expression, and then the more in depth, complicated, harder method of looking at transits and progressions and major life events and basically "back engineering" the charts birth time from these.

To do so accurately in a consistent manner, takes an unusually perceptive and practiced astrologer.

posted October 28, 2019 11:43 AM            

Example: maybe sun is ruled by Neptune (Pisces). Neptune is ruled by Jupiter (sag). Jupiter is ruled by Mercury (Gemini). Mercury is in Gemini. There's where it would stop.
Or if it keeps circling back to the same planet. Do that for each and see which planets end up being the final ruler. (Final depositor)
There's also a way on Astro. Not Pullen but a rulership diagram.
I'd have to go look and I don't have time right now but it's there.

posted October 28, 2019 12:30 PM            

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Originally posted by FireAndEarth:
One thing you can do is start following the trail of rulership.

Example: maybe sun is ruled by Neptune (Pisces). Neptune is ruled by Jupiter (sag). Jupiter is ruled by Mercury (Gemini). Mercury is in Gemini. There's where it would stop.
Or if it keeps circling back to the same planet. Do that for each and see which planets end up being the final ruler. (Final depositor)
There's also a way on Astro. Not Pullen but a rulership diagram.
I'd have to go look and I don't have time right now but it's there.

Some things are hard to tell without a birth time but at least it's something to go on.

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Hi Fire and Earth,

I have never heard of looking at dominant signs that way. How is (Neptune ruled by Jupiter) and (Jupiter ruled by Mercury)?

posted October 28, 2019 02:21 PM            

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Originally posted by MoonsOfJupiter:
What qualifies as a dominant planet in a chart?

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If you are asking in the most basic sense, then the most highlighted planet. As to what that looks like in actual practice and delineation is sometimes complex and relative.

But generally I look first for Angularity (Planets placed in or near the Angular houses or their cusps). By far, the most amplifying area of the chart par excellence is the Ascendant. Even just trines to the Ascendant from a Planet can really show a boosting of that planet (especially if it´s in the 5th, as I´ve found the 5th to be the next ¨power¨ area of a chart after the Angles).

Then I look for aspects to the faster moving, personal ruler of the Ascendant. If the Ascendant Sign has two rulers, I also look at the modern ruler as a supporting pattern. Conjunctions are particularly strong. My partner has latiśh Cappy Rising cusping Aquarius. The ruler, Saturn is very closely conjunct Jupiter. Jupiter is quite highlighted in her chart and in actual practice--in her psychce and life. If Venus and the Sun weren´t in her 1st House, then Jupiter would probably be the most highlighted, but since they are, it´s the 3rd most highlighted.

Then Planets in their own Signs show a boosting.

Then Planets in their archetypal, natural Houses show a boosting (less so than in it´s sign though imo).

There are many factors to consider simultaneously and holistically. However, at the risk of over simplifying things too much in broad strokes... Quite often, I have noticed that the Planet closest to the Ascendant is often the most highlighted one, even if it´s not technically in the 1st or conjunct the Ascendant. And quite often it represents the nonphysical dimension/consciousness level that this Soul phased from to the Earth i.e. 3rd dimension.

posted October 28, 2019 02:51 PM            

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Originally posted by FireAndEarth:
Let's say your sun is Pisces. Pieces is ruled by Neptune. So then we'd look at Neptune. Let's say Neptune is in sag. So then we'd look to sag ruler, Jupiter.
And so on... Until you find that you can't go any further. Make sense?

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posted October 28, 2019 03:30 PM            

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Originally posted by SoulOfABird:
With Neptune if you only look at the sign isn't that too general since it is a generational planet?

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Nope. All you're really doing is seeing what planetary influence you have. I mean it's not black and white but there could be a lot of personal planets that point to Neptune, so it would effect you on a personal level.

posted October 28, 2019 08:27 PM            

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Originally posted by Primarose220:
Can you look at a chart and tell the dominant signs and planets without a birthtime?

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Most of the time the signature (final signature) by element and quality and/or sign won't require a birth time or precise chart. But that gives only a general sign-based signature.

Astrology should be done properly without giving in to the temptation for shortcuts. So I don't attempt to do such a thing with the idea of a dominant planet. You need not just a birth time, but in most cases further verification of precisely accurate Asc to be certain of whether there is a planet in close relation to Asc or MC (I'm assuming you're referring to that notion of dominance).

Dominance and strength are similar terms and are conflated too easily in astrology. Saturn is the weakest planet in my chart, yet you would not think of that by seeing at a glance that Saturn is conjunct Sun (and parallel it), trine Moon & Asc.

By sign, it would seem that my fixed earth Taurus signature could make Venus dominant, even though Mars is the highest planet in my chart and parallel the Midheaven. Pluto is within 8° of my Asc, what some people would consider a conjunction. Which is dominant -- Venus, Mars, Saturn, Pluto? They're all there and all have their relevance, just as in everyone else's chart.

It is important to avoid reductionism in astrology. The whole chart still matters. In some charts there may be such a dominant planet, but in my experience that's not

Most of astrology is about getting a clearer understanding of the qualitative meaning even if we use some quantitative elements in getting there.

I find more value in the Vedic Shadbala composite rating system of planetary strengths. All 7 traditional planets (through Saturn) are rated, and even though its not a perfect system it gives a far more useful comparative picture rather than simply singling out a singular planet as dominant.

posted November 02, 2019 02:02 AM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

It is important to avoid reductionism in astrology. The whole chart still matters. In some charts there may be such a dominant planet, but in my experience that's not...

...it gives a far more useful comparative picture rather than simply singling out a singular planet as dominant.

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Course the whole chart matters, but the most highlighted Planet often becomes a very dominant note. If a chart is like a painting, then the most highlighted planet is akin the color that is most used in the painting.

This is why if you read hundreds of "Life Readings" in the Cayce readings like I have, you will see a repeating pattern of his guidance starting off the astrological part of the reading with something like, "The entity entered in from ... (insert specific planet here)".

The whole point being is that ONE planet, represents the last nonphysical dimension/consciousness level that one was focused in, before coming into this 3rd dimension of the mixes of the many levels.

I have clearly seen the importance of the most highlighted planet time and time again in charts. It's often far beyond that of the Sun Sign. This doesn't mean that the other highlighted Planets, Signs, etc aren't important, of course they are, but to really understand a person, you have to really understand their most highlighted Planet and what that symbolizes/means.

My spouse and her chart is a wonderful example of that. Aqua Sun, Venus, South Node, with latish Cap Rising cusping Aquarius, and Aries Moon. From that picture, one might assume a very independent, very go getting, fairly Yang attuned personality. Indeed, she has these traits/tendencies within her.

But with Venus in the 1st and closest Planet to her Ascendant, she is more Venusian than anything else. Why? Because on a deeper level, her Soul literally entered straight into the Earth from the dimension that Venus correlates to/symbolizes. Hence, she is first and foremost a Venusian above and beyond anything else.

And it clearly shows from being an artist, to being very closer relationship oriented (both friends and romance), to being a touch and affection addict (if she is sitting or laying down, and I start rubbing or caressing her, I could literally keep her there almost all day unless she has to use the bathroom or gets very hungry), a lover of nature, and generally fairly "heart centered".