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Author
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Topic: Aspects of self awareness or lack there of
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Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 01:30 PM
  
When reading a chart, what are some key aspects to look for to judge how much self awareness someone has? For instance, if I'm trying to help someone see their own habitual patterns, where would I look in the chart to see if this person even has the ability to see their self clearly enough to change their behaviour? IP: Logged |
SecretGeek
Knowflake Posts: 1671
From: Dallas
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted January 26, 2020 02:17 PM
Possibly an afflicted Neptune or something in Pisces or the 12th.Maybe something like Neptune square the Sun. Tough love could help some bottom out faster but may lose a few. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 05:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Possibly an afflicted Neptune or something in Pisces or the 12th.Maybe something like Neptune square the Sun. Tough love could help some bottom out faster but may lose a few.
Yes, I figured Neptune had a lot to do with it. My method of everything is tough love. I feel it's kinder than always laying a pillow at rock bottom, then they'll never understand the true consequences of their actions. IP: Logged |
SecretGeek
Knowflake Posts: 1671
From: Dallas
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted January 26, 2020 05:17 PM
I always thought buying an alcoholic a case of whiskey would help them bottom out faster than locking them up in a cell.By the way, prison and what you're describing are closely associated. You could show the probability of prison in the 12th house, for example. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 73543
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted January 26, 2020 05:38 PM
Water voidMercury combust the sun--the closer, the more
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Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 06:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
I always thought buying an alcoholic a case of whiskey would help them bottom out faster than locking them up in a cell.By the way, prison and what you're describing are closely associated. You could show the probability of prison in the 12th house, for example.
I have sun, venus, mercury, and chiron in the 12H and I do feel like I'm in a prison (my own body) I don't think I'm so unaware of myself that I can't step back and see my own bs. Although my Neptune is nicely aspected. I'm talking more along the lines of when you point something out to them, they are in complete disbelief and refuse to self reflect and instead, project what you're saying onto someone else. Kind of like, well it's not my fault because of this and that. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 06:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Water voidMercury combust the sun--the closer, the more
What about Merc conjunct Neptune? IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 06:25 PM
👆 I shudder when I see that aspect until I can gage how evolved they are and how they handle it. IP: Logged |
SecretGeek
Knowflake Posts: 1671
From: Dallas
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted January 26, 2020 06:28 PM
That's denial. I wouldn't change any wording. IP: Logged |
GalacticCoreExplosion
Knowflake Posts: 864
From: Somewhere
Registered: Sep 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 06:56 PM
I've known two men, born near somewhat near each other's birthdates, though one towards the beginning of Libra Solar period and the other towards the end. One with Capricorn Moon, whose Libra Saturn is conjunct Libra Neptune. The other has Libra Sun, Saturn, and Neptune conjunction. Both men seem to have some definite major self blind spots. This argues against the whole Saturn aligns with good and sound judgment, honest self reflection, and all that jazz. I have noticed that folks with an overly Fixed oriented chart (especially when both Signs and Planets) sometimes have major self blind spots as well. As to opposite, Jupiter is often associated with honesty, love of truth, and good judgement, Mercury with strong analytical traits, discernment, and discrimination, and tendency to prefer facts and truth, Aquarius towards the more objective and non attached in general, and Capricorn with a realist, grounded, detailed but also bigger picture perspective. I would expect that a person with 3 or more of the above symbols strong, in an otherwise faster vibratory oriented chart, to be more self aware, self honest, self reflective, etc. Well adjusted and balanced Pisces, oddly can too, believe it or not. Pisces in that condition and context tends to have the most humility as well as flexibility, and one needs both to be self aware. A good blend is actually strong, well placed Virgo and strong, well placed Pisces at the same time (provided the rest of the chart supports it). They help to balance each other out, so that one can get the best of both the "left brain" side of perception and the more "right brain" side of perception, along with humility, self reflection, etc. Similar goes for simultaneously highlighted Mercury and Jupiter combo (as I already touched on), though Jupiter I would say is more innately "whole brain" in nature than Neptune which is definitely more polarized to a more "right brain" like attunement. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 08:58 PM
These are the charts of 2 of the people I'm referencing. Specifically the 2nd who is my ex. His grip on reality was so off I actually believed at one point for him to have a mental illness. If at any time someone would point out his behaviour, he would be in complete shock and disbelief that his own behaviour came off that way. Hes wrapped up in this image he has of himself that any contradiction is like a slap in the face to him. The 1st chart is the same only to a lesser degree.
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Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 09:03 PM
Here's another chart of someone with similar tendencies. Just a lack of self awareness but, hers was paired with a sense of superiority. She was above anyone telling her about herself, does that make sense?All 3 people when confronted with the same exact information from multiple people who don't even know each other, still refuse to see that their own behaviour is what's causing their problems because they simply don't believe that they act a certain way.
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SecretGeek
Knowflake Posts: 1671
From: Dallas
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted January 26, 2020 09:13 PM
All three persons have their Sun associated with Neptune, either directly or indirectly.IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 26, 2020 09:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
All three persons have their Sun associated with Neptune, either directly or indirectly.
There's also an 8H connection as well. Sun in the 8H, moon in 8H, and scorpio moon. Also, I see the Midheaven is playing a role with chiron conjunct 2 of them, and moon sitting on the other. IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted January 27, 2020 03:50 AM
I would look at the closeness of the aspect orbs in the contacts between the planets that are creating the behaviourl trait which the chart owner is unable to recognise in herself/himself.And, my personal view is that - as the harmonic number of an aspect increases, the related behavioural trait becomes more deeply embedded in the subconscious (making it more difficult for the person to see it in herself/himself). So, a wide-orbed 2H/opposition aspect indicates a behavioural trait that the person will see quickly (via feedback from others). But, if that wide-orb happens to be 5degs 30mins, those two planets are actually making a 64H aspect - indicating the same (2H) behavioural trait, but manifesting from a cause/trauma which has been suppressed/buried 32 levels deeper in the subconscious mind. (And, it will remain as an unrecognised/subconscious behavioural trait until the person is ready to confront/deal with re-xperiencing/re-living the emotional pain of the trauma/event which made it necessessary for them to bury it so deeply at the time.) Hence - astrologers/students can "do harm" by insisting that the chart owner recognises behavioural traits before he/she is psychologically READY to deal with the underlying cause of them. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 27, 2020 08:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
I would look at the closeness of the aspect orbs in the contacts between the planets that are creating the behaviourl trait which the chart owner is unable to recognise in herself/himself.And, my personal view is that - as the harmonic number of an aspect increases, the related behavioural trait becomes more deeply embedded in the subconscious (making it more difficult for the person to see it in herself/himself). So, a wide-orbed 2H/opposition aspect indicates a behavioural trait that the person will see quickly (via feedback from others). But, if that wide-orb happens to be 5degs 30mins, those two planets are actually making a 64H aspect - indicating the same (2H) behavioural trait, but manifesting from a cause/trauma which has been suppressed/buried 32 levels deeper in the subconscious mind. (And, it will remain as an unrecognised/subconscious behavioural trait until the person is ready to confront/deal with re-xperiencing/re-living the emotional pain of the trauma/event which made it necessessary for them to bury it so deeply at the time.) Hence - astrologers/students can "do harm" by [b]insisting that the chart owner recognises behavioural traits before he/she is psychologically READY to deal with the underlying cause of them.[/B]
Thank you Graham that makes a lot of sense and that's exactly what I did, just backed off. Can you see in transits or progressions when these harmonics will surface? What should I look for? IP: Logged |
29TAU
Newflake Posts: 24
From:
Registered: Aug 2019
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posted January 27, 2020 02:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
I would look at the closeness of the aspect orbs in the contacts between the planets that are creating the behaviourl trait which the chart owner is unable to recognise in herself/himself.And, my personal view is that - as the harmonic number of an aspect increases, the related behavioural trait becomes more deeply embedded in the subconscious (making it more difficult for the person to see it in herself/himself). So, a wide-orbed 2H/opposition aspect indicates a behavioural trait that the person will see quickly (via feedback from others). But, if that wide-orb happens to be 5degs 30mins, those two planets are actually making a 64H aspect - indicating the same (2H) behavioural trait, but manifesting from a cause/trauma which has been suppressed/buried 32 levels deeper in the subconscious mind. (And, it will remain as an unrecognised/subconscious behavioural trait until the person is ready to confront/deal with re-xperiencing/re-living the emotional pain of the trauma/event which made it necessessary for them to bury it so deeply at the time.) Hence - astrologers/students can "do harm" by [b]insisting that the chart owner recognises behavioural traits before he/she is psychologically READY to deal with the underlying cause of them.[/B]
I agree with your statement fully. I am curious however what you mean by 2H and 64H aspects? What does that mean? There are two kinds of oppositions? Can you explain?
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Graham
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted January 27, 2020 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
Thank you Graham that makes a lot of sense and that's exactly what I did, just backed off. Can you see in transits or progressions when these harmonics will surface? What should I look for?
Your Sagittarius ex has Mercury in optimistic Sagittarius, making a 54 H aspect with self-deluding Neptune. And the aspect is within 1 arc minute of exact. So, whenever his Natal Mercury or Neptune is activated by progressions or/and transits - he will be unable to "hear" anything that does not confirm his unrealistic view of himself. But ... what happened during childhood or adolescence that made it necessary for him to adopt this view of himself? IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 735
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted January 27, 2020 05:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Your Sagittarius ex has Mercury in optimistic Sagittarius, making a 54 H aspect with self-deluding Neptune. And the aspect is within 1 arc minute of exact. So, whenever his Natal Mercury or Neptune is activated by progressions or/and transits - he will be unable to "hear" anything that does not confirm his unrealistic view of himself.But ... what happened during childhood or adolescence that made it necessary for him to adopt this view of himself?
His father didn't show any affection, ever, he was only a disciplinarian to him. He didn't like that his son was a sensitive person and he wasn't "manly" enough to handle the stress of the real world. After he left the family he only showed, and still to this day, attention to his younger sister. Literally, we live in the same town and his father will take his sister to dinner, shower her with presents, and buy her anything, and my ex won't get so much as a phone call. Because of this, his mother and paternal grandmother have always stepped in to enable him (giving him money, always getting him out of trouble) He was addicted to heroin for 13 years and only got clean when he moved in with me this past summer. He's actually done extremely well in that department. My Saturn was on his IC and my venus on his MC/chiron. I offered the stability he needed to get clean. I'm also not an enabler and will call out any manipulative behaviours, he really didn't like that. My Uranus is conjunct his Mercury in my 7H. Guess I was too much of a shock to his view of his self IP: Logged |
SecretGeek
Knowflake Posts: 1671
From: Dallas
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted January 27, 2020 05:53 PM
He has a great conjunction too.IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122325
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 04, 2020 11:58 AM
Bump!IP: Logged |
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