posted February 07, 2020 12:56 PM            

But Mars is more outward focused, oriented, and directed, as well as more "flaring" and unstable or fleeting in nature (like a flickering flame).

Whereas Pluto is more internally focused, oriented, and directed, more steady/fixed, and more pressure building in nature. Pluto has some Yinness to it, while Mars is almost completely Yang polarized. Hence, Pluto has a "holding" aspect to it. (Which is why Moon-Pluto has a much stronger tendency towards grudge holding than does Moon-Mars, especially with the conjunction, square, and opposition aspects).

posted February 07, 2020 01:15 PM            

I know a woman with Pisces Moon. That probably brings to mind certain traits and tendencies most likely? And, she does have some of these.

But, her Pisces Moon is cusping Aries, and square Sagittarius Mars.

What it works out to in sum, is that she actually has more of a feel and pattern that is more similar to Scorpio Moon in a lot of respects. The main difference though, is that there is not the fixity and slower moving/changing nature of Scorpio.

When you add a lot of mutable with a lot of Mars/red type energy, you get a lot of quick reactions, quick changing, etc. However, the feel and behavior of Scorpio is there otherwise. She has intense, more inward directed feelings, she is intuitive and has some empathy but not near as much as a "pure" Pisces Moon, and she can bear grudges some. But wait, didn't I just say in my last post that Mars doesn't hold grudges as does Pluto? Yes in a singular, archetypal sense, but the strong and stressed Mars, combined with the Yinnnes and watery nature of Pisces in relation to the Moon, indicates her hold onto anger/temper (Mars) and in a stressed, inharmonious way (square) more than she would normally.

If we understand the color vibration (in an archetypal, singular sense) involved in all this, it becomes more obvious.

Mid Pisces is pure violet. Pisces cusping into Aries is like purple with a little more red in it than mid Pisces of violet.

Mars is red, square can introduce a red and darker like quality. Sagittarius is a medium, brighter reddish purple.

What happens when you mix all these together strongly, when understanding that highlighted Planetary energy is often times stronger/more concentrated than Sign? You get a deeper, darker, and more reddish purple, which is pretty close to the archetypal expression of mid Scorpio--i.e. deeper, darker, fairly reddish purple--somewhat close to an aubergine type purple color.

posted February 07, 2020 04:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MMarie:
@galactic yes I can see where a Pisces moon square mars is similar to a Scorpio vibe because of the nature of Pisces and adding a more temperamental aspect. I think a square aspect has a more “fixed” feeling anyway? Where an opposition aspect maybe more like a “mutable” sign going back and forth between two things? Does that make sense? Haha

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Yeah, I think squares can and often do have a sort of fixed like quality to them, but sometimes also cardinal as well. I could see oppositions as being described as having a mutuable like quality, but also would say that there is some cardinal like quality to them as well.

I'd be curious to hear more about your sister, as I'm trying to figure someone that has Scorpio Moon closely conjunct Pluto. Everything I've read about these combo of symbols indicates that powerful unconscious and repressive patterns can and often do happen with the emotions/feelings, which definitely seems to fit her.

But it's always helpful to hear real life examples/cases about such complex aspects and combos.

As to your chart, yeah, I could see that the Taurus Mars part, would tend to be more passive and slow to anger, but in a square with Leo Moon, there might be an aspect of a temper, but it building up rather than being flaring.

posted February 07, 2020 04:42 PM            

I.e., symbols like the Moon, IC/4th House, South Node, Pluto, 8th House, and 12th House and their connected factors, relate strongly to our "shadow".

Shadow does not necessarily automatically mean something negative or limiting. It's basic meaning is that of the unconscious.

They are just aspects of self, whether feelings, beliefs, thoughts, patterns, etc that we are not comfortable with, and so we shove them down into our unconscious.

This means that in actual practice--a person with stressed Moon-Mars aspect, may have more of anger/temper than they realize.

What do we often do when we unconscious of a strong pattern/aspect within self? We often project it onto others. We can and often do that in different ways. We might attract or be attracted to situations and/or people that mirror this back to us i.e. they have obvious/overt bad tempers or rub us the wrong way.

Or we judge/criticize others for their ill tempers, as a pressure release valve for not dealing with our own issues in that area. (Called "projection").

The opposition will often work more in the former sense, and the square will often work more in the latter sense. Either way, there is often a need to become more conscious to oneself and one's unconscious.

posted February 07, 2020 04:54 PM            

I asked an aunt for help. She sneered at me once, and then sent me "You Can Heal Your Life" as an early birthday present. Being calm and understanding did nothing to prevent abuse. I *had* to fight, and still deal with the emotions at times, although they aren't triggered as much as they used to be.

I'm not blind to anything like that. I'm dealing with it.

posted February 07, 2020 05:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
It's important to point out that the Moon is one of the symbols of astrology that relates to the unconscious more so than the conscious.

I.e., symbols like the Moon, IC/4th House, South Node, Pluto, 8th House, and 12th House and their connected factors, relate strongly to our "shadow".

Shadow does not necessarily automatically mean something negative or limiting. It's basic meaning is that of the unconscious.

They are just aspects of self, whether feelings, beliefs, thoughts, patterns, etc that we are not comfortable with, and so we shove them down into our unconscious.

This means that in actual practice--a person with stressed Moon-Mars aspect, may have more of anger/temper than they realize.

What do we often do when we unconscious of a strong pattern/aspect within self? We often project it onto others. We can and often do that in different ways. We might attract or be attracted to situations and/or people that mirror this back to us i.e. they have obvious/overt bad tempers or rub us the wrong way.

Or we judge/criticize others for their ill tempers, as a pressure release valve for not dealing with our own issues in that area. (Called "projection").

The opposition will often work more in the former sense, and the square will often work more in the latter sense. Either way, there is often a need to become more conscious to oneself and one's unconscious.

You cannot change a pattern/trait/tendency if you remain unconscious to it. The first step in any positive transformation, is the conscious awareness and acknowledgement of said aspect/pattern/tendency.

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You are very right about the projection thing. I notice I repress my own anger and get sometimes get offended by others anger or show of it. Especially at work because maybe I think anger is not appropriate there? (Mars in 10th) Trying to deal with these issues now and become more conscious of it.

As far as my sister goes it is hard for me to tell she really has her emotions under wrap. She is either a mature or “evolved” moon conjunct Pluto, or really good at hiding or repressing her emotions. She is an Aquarius sun and has a ton of Capricorn in her chart so maybe her Aquarius sun makes it easy to detach? I’ve noticed this particularly with Aqua sun and Scorpio moon combos. They either become detached leaning more towards the sun or embody the Scorpio moon more than normal. Maybe because of the moon square sun, it is difficult to embody both? Someone I work with is an aqua sun and Scorpio moon and she is completely her Scorpio moon and Is more manipulative, controlliing and negative under developed aspects etc. I do think though my sister opens up more around people who she feels she can let out the Scorpio moon Pluto traits. Her Ex has a lot of Scorpio in his chart so she probably felt comfortable.

posted February 07, 2020 05:04 PM            

If I heard someone with a stressed Moon-Mars aspect say something like, "I've never had a temper or anger issues", I would tend to be rather skeptical of such a statement.

The latter is more what I was addressing as a potential.

Another thing about Moon aspects, is that they are often stronger/more noticeable during our childhood. I have early Libra Moon conjunct Virgo Saturn.

I went through a phase/cycle during childhood, where for me, I was unusually (for me) and strongly attuned to Saturn. During this phase, I deeply cared what others thought of me, cared about outer things more, and was more self centered (the combination which led to be extremely quiet/reserved and withdrawn).

posted February 07, 2020 05:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
I have more of a temper than I used to, but it still isn't nearly as bad as I've seen in some people. That's less Moon/Mars, more Pluto/Uranus transits, and circumstances.

I asked an aunt for help. She sneered at me once, and then sent me "You Can Heal Your Life" as an early birthday present. Being calm and understanding did nothing to prevent abuse. I *had* to fight, and still deal with the emotions at times, although they aren't triggered as much as they used to be.

I'm not blind to anything like that. I'm dealing with it.

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posted February 07, 2020 07:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Hey MMarie, will get back to you later--probably tomorrow.

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posted February 08, 2020 01:36 AM            

Well, it's quite possible that your sister does have the ultimate poker face going on, or perhaps is unconscious and repressing of more dark tendencies/patterns. That was kind of my point earlier, that Moon-Pluto and to a lesser extent Scorpio Moon, is known as kind of the ultimate in that repression and/or hiding of their deeper feelings and emotions. Now imagine these combined!

It very much seems to be the case in the person that I'm thinking of.

It would take a rather intuitive person to see through their masks.

I kind of have to chuckle a bit, because I once pointed out some of her Scorpio/Pluto/8th House like patterns/dynamics, and she shot back somewhat angrily something like, "well if you know Scorpio etc, then you would know that we are really good at hiding what we feel and you wouldn't even know'

Well sure Lass, if you were dealing with the average, as intuitive as a rock, bloke, but you weren't. Besides being rather intuitive in general, we're likely twin Souls which gives me an extra edge of seeing through her. Got the sense that at times, I really flustered her.

How was your childhood?

Yes, I can understand that mirroring since I have Scorpio IC. In our case, it's interesting as Uranus is her strongest Planet, then she has the Scorp Moon Pluto conjunction and 8th House Sun, and I have the Scorp IC with Scorp Uranus in the 4th (and in major aspect to both my Sun and Saturn--particularly sensitive/receptive/highlighted symbols in my chart), Sun chart ruler square Pluto, and Aqua Venus in 7th square the Scorp Uranus and trine Pluto within seconds.

Some definite deep mirroring going on there. In our case, both of our childhoods were unusually traumatic and intense. And we both became aware of/open to nonphysical perception and beliefs pretty young.

posted February 08, 2020 05:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MMarie:
What are the similarities of moon/mars aspects and moon/Pluto aspects in natal? What are the differences?

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Very similar energies.But stark differences in approaches.

Mars-Moon has moment to moment flare ups and can be irritable to be around.They are content to be left alone to their own devices or in their room to calm down.

Moon-Pluto is long and sure in coming. Here the person does not have as many flare ups as the former individual.

But the resultant action from a flare up that was progressive and long in coming etc. Is often very absolute or defining in some way. It changes something fundamentally.

So whilst Moon-Mars is the teenager/adult that screams and shouts "Leave me alone" and bangs their bedroom door with a "Enter and you will be killed" sign hanging on the door etc.

The Moon-Pluto person has sights on moving away from home,spouse,country or even continent(depending on the area of life the Moon rules)

Perhaps they end up cutting off Mom(or Dad/ family) and consequently redefining the family status by never been seen or heard from again for many years-sometimes in extreme cases indefinitely

They are both very passionate about how they feel.But Moon-Pluto is quieter but more extreme for sure.

Just to illustrate.I changed homes permanently when progressed Moon squared natal Pluto. Pluto usually means drastic and extreme action.

Moon-Pluto natal parents can( in many cases I have come across)be the type to write off their children if there is a fallout about religion/sexuality or marriage choice.

In some cases, some only reconciling with their children when death(usually their own)/some crisis is imminent(again Pluto). Others however never do.

When trans Mars is square natal Moon,there is usually some kind of domestic/family fallout/ misunderstanding that doesn't necesarily equate to long-lasting feelings of resentment.

posted February 08, 2020 06:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
God forbid an individual has Moon/Mars/Pluto tight aspect. The domestic environment(or area of life the Moon rules) is a tenuous, vulnerable area of life subject to many flare- ups and turbulence.

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posted February 08, 2020 06:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hikaru29:
My guy has Moon conjunct Pluto both squaring Mars (Moon rules his 8H). He did move away from his home country and he doesn't intend to move back, but he still keeps regular contact with his parents and they visit each other every year. He was raised a Catholic but due to reasons unknown, he has renounced his faith.

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I think that his parents have likely learned to accept him "as is" to mantain contact.lol

If they did not, things wouldn't be as agreeable. This placement is very "let me be". And I would reckon the strong feelings he has may have prompted him to let go of conditioning(perhaps in his case religion?)

I know of one(an ex) who has Mars-Pluto conj and both sextile his Moon in Sag. He was a Leo Sun and his temper was legendary.

I don't know how I made it out of there alive. Guess I am made of stronger stuff

Anyways,he moved progressively far from parents/home. He visits for a max of 2 days I hear. Then he is gone again. Never wants to stay home or move back EVER.

I think these people SHOULD find their own home. It seems imperative with Moon-Pluto. Even those who have Pluto/Ic aspects. Get out!

There could be too much tension in the home and volatile living conditions.

posted February 08, 2020 08:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I think that his parents have likely learned to accept him "as is" to mantain contact.lol

If they did not, things wouldn't be as agreeable. This placement is very "let me be". And I would reckon the strong feelings he has may have prompted him to let go of conditioning(perhaps in his case religion?)

I know of one(an ex) who has Mars-Pluto conj and both sextile his Moon in Sag. He was a Leo Sun and his temper was legendary.

I don't know how I made it out of there alive. Guess I am made of stronger stuff

Anyways,he moved progressively far from parents/home. He visits for a max of 2 days I hear. Then he is gone again. Never wants to stay home or move back EVER.

I think these people SHOULD find their own home. It seems imperative with Moon-Pluto. Even those who have Pluto/Ic aspects. Get out!

There could be too much tension in the home and volatile living conditions.

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Haha, you could be right as he doesn't look like a very obedient child. Pushing him will only force him further. He prefers to keep his family at a distance but not totally cut-off. It appears his mom is the protective, smothering type and while they have a relatively harmonious relationship, she may have forced fed him too much. He said he used to attend church with her when he was young so his loss of faith could be silent rebellion against his mom. Then again, I can see the huge impact she has on him as he still talks about the things he was taught but with significant doubt.

He's not a physically violent person. His tempers are usually emotional and blows over fast. So far there were no instances where I felt that I needed to fear for my life (lol). His temper tends to veer towards being incredibly & exasperatingly obstinate (lol). There was only once I saw him snapped at a friend who kept pulling his stretchable t-shirt. I don't blame him as he had repeatedly told her to leave him alone. But he's also the type to feel bad after losing his cool.

posted February 08, 2020 02:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
That makes sense Teasel.

If I heard someone with a stressed Moon-Mars aspect say something like, "I've never had a temper or anger issues", I would tend to be rather skeptical of such a statement.

The latter is more what I was addressing as a potential.

Another thing about Moon aspects, is that they are often stronger/more noticeable during our childhood. I have early Libra Moon conjunct Virgo Saturn.

I went through a phase/cycle during childhood, where for me, I was unusually (for me) and strongly attuned to Saturn. During this phase, I deeply cared what others thought of me, cared about outer things more, and was more self centered (the combination which led to be extremely quiet/reserved and withdrawn).

I'm not like that anymore (or rather very little).

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I was about to say smth along the lines of not having a bad temper LOL
I have moon (taurus) square mars (leo). My moon is in the 4th house conjunct my IC and my mars is in the 7th. Maybe it's bc of Saturn contacts or because I'm a Cap rising but I'm pretty well-controlled. Or I guess I should say that I don't like losing my cool in general but especially in front of other people.

posted February 08, 2020 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mourningfire:
I was about to say smth along the lines of not having a bad temper LOL
I have moon (taurus) square mars (leo). My moon is in the 4th house conjunct my IC and my mars is in the 7th. Maybe it's bc of Saturn contacts or because I'm a Cap rising but I'm pretty well-controlled. Or I guess I should say that I don't like losing my cool in general but especially in front of other people.

However, I know that when I do get angry, I get a certain look in my eyes. I got angry at a friend once and she told me afterwards that it was scary. I didn't "do" anything, I didn't raise my voice, I think it was all on my face. But those are instances where I am legitimately mad, meaning I really feel it in my gut. Sometimes I can get a little snappy here and there but I don't consider that anger or having a temper, it's more a case of just being reactive. Maybe from someone else's perspective it comes across as anger, but if I don't feel it in my gut, it's not anger, simple as that for me.

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I'm with you on not having had a bad temper, before things got really bad for me (and I had to defend myself, over and over and over).