posted February 14, 2020 10:29 AM            

Would the Sun be in aspect with Pluto or perhaps the above mentioned positions?

I myself identify with sidereal too. But I see it more of a mirror of tropical I.e moon in Gem in sidereal. But Moon in 3rd in Tropical.

posted February 14, 2020 10:39 AM            

My sidereal Mars(Cappy) would fit me better, I have never been interested in networking or humanitarian **** and all that which Aqua Mars suggests, Mars/Jupiter square seems rather pronounced in my case though...Hahh

I have met some ultra-emotional Aries Moons who would cry at the drop of the hat, and bombastic Taurus Moons who flare-up in few seconds though...when I change their Moon signs to the previous one it fits them well come to think of it...

posted February 14, 2020 06:02 PM            

Nope. None of my moon, mars, venus, or mercury are not in Scorpio in Tropical. Only neptune is in Scorpio in Tropical.

Pluto makes aspects in my Tropical chart to moon, mercury, jupiter, neptune, mars, uranus, chiron, MC, and juno, but not my sun.

posted February 15, 2020 12:06 AM            

I guarantee you there's another explanation for why the chart you originally had did not seem to match up. And it is not an explanation a novice can discover.

If your Sun is placed at 0° in the tropical zodiac it could be in a genuine cusp position (29SCO45 - 00SAG15 or so).

While a sidereal zodiac may seem to give you a correct chart, I can entirely undo that with my own chart, which would remove 4 planets (Sun, Saturn, Mercury, Moon) from the earth signs and put them all into fire, which is laughably wrong for anyone who knows me at all.

So for the switch to sidereal to hold 'the answer' for anyone it must hold the answer for everyone.

I guarantee you there is another explanation, most likely explanations plural from different factors in your chart. It is quite possible that the rising sign and degree were inaccurate and adjusting that within the tropical zodiac (which would possibly change some planet positions by house).

Then there are declinations.

Most importantly, astrology is primarily planets, not signs. Signs give generalities, but planets are far more specific, especially in relation to houses.

quote:

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Originally posted by moongirl22:
... Pluto makes aspects in my Tropical chart to moon, mercury, jupiter, neptune, mars, uranus, chiron, MC, and juno, but not my sun.

My moon in Tropical is in my first house, so no mirroring here. They really are two different charts...

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The only thing that changes when you switch to the sidereal zodiac is the zodiac. The planetary placements by house remain the same -- unless you also change the house system used. So they are not two entirely different charts, only different zodiacs. ALL aspects between planets are the same. ALL aspects by planets to Asc, MC, cusps are the same (unless you also changed the house system). ALL declinations are the same.

posted February 15, 2020 12:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The only thing that changes when you switch to the sidereal zodiac is the zodiac. The planetary placements by house remain the same -- unless you also change the house system used. So they are not two entirely different charts, only different zodiacs. ALL aspects between planets are the same. ALL aspects by planets to Asc, MC, cusps are the same (unless you also changed the house system). ALL declinations are the same.

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posted February 15, 2020 12:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by moongirl22:
Hello All!

I have been studying astrology a very short time...only since last June. But I was raised with astrology in my home. My mother is an astrologer. I remember many conversations with her regarding astrology, my chart, and trying very hard to understand what she was saying. It was all so complicated. So over the years, I have read about my sun sign, my ascendant, my moon....etc. And honestly, it never felt right. It felt as if I was reading about someone else. A few things might ring true, but not much. Then, this week, I began to explore whole sign, sidereal charts. BAM! There I was! I am not a Sagittarius sun, I am proud to report I am a Scorpio sun! I have never felt like I embodied the traits and characteristics of a Sag. I thought maybe because it was at 0 degrees, I had not "grown" into my sign. Then I read Scorpio sun traits, and couldn't believe how it ALL resonated with me. Then I read my Gemini ascendant, and again, could not believe how much it described my personality. It really is a relief! Have any you had this experience? Also, if you changed to whole sign, can you recommend some good references to study this type of chart. I am just so excited! I feel like I just discovered the real me!

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Very strong Mars--especially when in combination with a lot of Yin/Feminine Signs, strong 8th House (either directly or indirectly through the ruler[s]), and/or especially strong Pluto can account for a Scorpio like flavor and vibe.

If one has all 3 of those factors going on, this almost guarantees an extremely strong Scorpio like vibe and personality even if there is little to nothing in the chart of the Sign Scorpio.

Even I can relate to some Scorpio traits, though only Uranus and the IC is in same. But, the ruler of my chart, which is ALSO the Sun, is closely square Pluto and closely trine Mars. Then, the ruler of my Moon Sign--Venus is trine Pluto within seconds.

This combined with the Scorpio IC, and that my 8th House rulers are strongly highlighted, highlights a Scorpio like pattern more than otherwise would be apparent by the lack of "planets in Scorpio".

From the digging into Sidereal and Vedic based astrology--so far, I find it more accurate as to collective event type patterns. I've found Western/tropical based astrology more than sufficient and accurate for individual personality, character, and Soul oriented patterns.

Is it not fitting these differences? Is not the East in general more collective minded as compared to the West? Is not the West more individual minded than collective minded than the East?

Then wouldn't their respective belief systems and approaches, then reflect this innate and core difference?

posted February 15, 2020 02:18 PM            

What would Mars cusp be like? Just a blend/both of the signs, w/ maybe a little added indecision?

posted February 15, 2020 02:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ULT12:
@Kannon:

What would Mars cusp be like? Just a blend/both of the signs, w/ maybe a little added indecision?

I have Mars cusp, in Libra. Also Scorpio Sun, Merc, Pluto all conj, and Moon, Venus, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune in H8. So I already have "indecisiveness" and "Scorpio energy" evident, I'm unsure if the cusp theory adds anything to personality astrology basics (basics meaning not transits or digging into/analysis of house rulers) for me.

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Mars actually on the cusp, as with any planet (not luminary) is exceedingly rare. Mars's apparent (angular) diameter is 25" arc or less (25 seconds). So you won't know if that condition exists in the chart unless unless you know its position measured in seconds of arc (29°59'35" - 0°00'25" maximum cusp window).

Otherwise, we are talking about a 'cuspy' condition in which Mars is in the last couple degrees of a sign. That does not involve a combination of signs, but the 'cuspy' effect of subconscious anticipation of impending change of mode of expression, especially if Mars progresses in direct motion into the next sign. If it went Rx, then the usual 'cuspy' effect may not apply.

Indecisiveness is not a quality or pattern exclusive to Librans or placements in that sign. It is seen as much if not more from the Neptune effect, which is often referred to as vacillation.

posted February 15, 2020 02:56 PM            

Tropical is more "human". It's more directly representative of our [human, after all we are all humans in this world] personalities and ongoings of the life we have on Earth, and is more affective of those things too (e.g. lose your keys and need to find them asap? check tropical. lose a family heirloom you randomly remember after years passing? sidereal.) EGO is a human thing, i.e. Tropical; Sidereal is more about our "soul".

As people grow older, typically their Ego tampers down. So it seems as people "mature", they transform a little from Tropical -> Sidereal. So with time/age, it's not uncommon for Sidereal to be fitting on a personality level. Now, all of us don't "mature" nor do we mature at the same rate (imagine a really "mature" 25y/o vs a really "immature" 40y/o) so under this logic it's possible for a Tropical chart to never(or only when young/super young, etc) but Sidereal does.

posted February 15, 2020 03:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Mars actually [b]on the cusp, as with any planet (not luminary) is exceedingly rare. Mars's apparent (angular) diameter is 25" arc or less (25 seconds). So you won't know if that condition exists in the chart unless unless you know its position measured in seconds of arc (29°59'35" - 0°00'25" maximum cusp window).

Otherwise, we are talking about a 'cuspy' condition in which Mars is in the last couple degrees of a sign. That does not involve a combination of signs, but the 'cuspy' effect of subconscious anticipation of impending change of mode of expression, especially if Mars progresses in direct motion into the next sign. If it went Rx, then the usual 'cuspy' effect may not apply.

Indecisiveness is not a quality or pattern exclusive to Librans or placements in that sign. It is seen as much if not more from the Neptune effect, which is often referred to as vacillation.

[/B]

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posted February 15, 2020 07:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The wording you've used here in the subject line vs the text in your original post is confused. There's really no such thing as 'whole houses'. It appeared you were referring to whole sign houses, but then your explanation of two different charts hinged upon going to the sidereal zodiac.

I guarantee you there's another explanation for why the chart you originally had did not seem to match up. And it is not an explanation a novice can discover.

If your Sun is placed at 0° in the tropical zodiac it could be in a genuine cusp position (29SCO45 - 00SAG15 or so).

While a sidereal zodiac may seem to give you a correct chart, I can entirely undo that with my own chart, which would remove 4 planets (Sun, Saturn, Mercury, Moon) from the earth signs and put them all into fire, which is laughably wrong for anyone who knows me at all.

So for the switch to sidereal to hold 'the answer' for anyone it must hold the answer for everyone.

I guarantee you there is another explanation, most likely explanations plural from different factors in your chart. It is quite possible that the rising sign and degree were inaccurate and adjusting that within the tropical zodiac (which would possibly change some planet positions by house).

Then there are declinations.

Most importantly, astrology is primarily planets, not signs. Signs give generalities, but planets are far more specific, especially in relation to houses.

The only thing that changes when you switch to the sidereal zodiac is the zodiac. The planetary placements by house remain the same -- unless you also change the house system used. So they are not two entirely different charts, only different zodiacs. ALL aspects between planets are the same. ALL aspects by planets to Asc, MC, cusps are the same (unless you also changed the house system). ALL declinations are the same.

---

posted February 15, 2020 07:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Very strong Mars--especially when in combination with a lot of Yin/Feminine Signs, strong 8th House (either directly or indirectly through the ruler[s]), and/or especially strong Pluto can account for a Scorpio like flavor and vibe.

If one has all 3 of those factors going on, this almost guarantees an extremely strong Scorpio like vibe and personality even if there is little to nothing in the chart of the Sign Scorpio.

Even I can relate to some Scorpio traits, though only Uranus and the IC is in same. But, the ruler of my chart, which is ALSO the Sun, is closely square Pluto and closely trine Mars. Then, the ruler of my Moon Sign--Venus is trine Pluto within seconds.

This combined with the Scorpio IC, and that my 8th House rulers are strongly highlighted, highlights a Scorpio like pattern more than otherwise would be apparent by the lack of "planets in Scorpio".

From the digging into Sidereal and Vedic based astrology--so far, I find it more accurate as to [b]collective event type patterns. I've found Western/tropical based astrology more than sufficient and accurate for individual personality, character, and Soul oriented patterns.

Is it not fitting these differences? Is not the East in general more collective minded as compared to the West? Is not the West more individual minded than collective minded than the East?

Then wouldn't their respective belief systems and approaches, then reflect this innate and core difference?

[/B]

---

My Mars in Tropical is in Virgo, 3H. So, I wouldn't necessarily equate this with a strong Mars. However, it is conjunct Pluto and Uranus. I have the signature Uranus/Pluto conjunction, many born between 1962-1968 have.

My 8th in Tropical is ruled by Saturn, and no aspects to Pluto. Pluto in Tropical doe make several aspects, so I agree this would have a Scorpio feel. However, this doesn't explain the difference in ascendants. I am not a mamas girl. I am not attached to my mother in the sense someone with Cancer ascendant should be. I don't have a strong connection to my roots or my family.

posted February 15, 2020 08:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ULT12:
My thoughts on the personality side of Tropical vs Sidereal:

Tropical is more "human". It's more directly representative of our [human, after all we are all humans in this world] personalities and ongoings of the life we have on Earth, and is more affective of those things too (e.g. lose your keys and need to find them asap? check tropical. lose a family heirloom you randomly remember after years passing? sidereal.) EGO is a human thing, i.e. Tropical; Sidereal is more about our "soul".

As people grow older, typically their Ego tampers down. So it seems as people "mature", they transform a little from Tropical -> Sidereal. So with time/age, it's not uncommon for Sidereal to be fitting on a personality level. Now, all of us don't "mature" nor do we mature at the same rate (imagine a really "mature" 25y/o vs a really "immature" 40y/o) so [b]under this logic it's possible for a Tropical chart to never(or only when young/super young, etc) but Sidereal does.

If this explanation is valid, it does mean there are different lets call them levels or dimensions of consciousness/experience/etc. That is, our Earthly incarnations are more strongly subject to the laws/order/whatever of Tropical, whereas non-Earthly incarnations souls, and/or whatever other consciousness incarnation you want to imagine)aren't as strongly if at all.[/B]

---

This is one of the ideas I had been kicking around in my head! I had wondered if through the soul's evolution it "grows" into a Sidereal chart and "outgrows" the Tropical chart.

One of the main differences I have noticed is my desire to take center stage. As a child, and even a young adult, I wanted to blend in with my surroundings and didn't want to be the center of attention. I actually didn't like all the attention I received. It was unsettling. Now, though, as a mature adult, I am very comfortable with the attention, and actually am performing with a choir with aspirations to act in musicals. Which, by the way, has been a life-long dream. So maybe this is just a coming into the self period in my life and I do feel very different from the young person version of myself.

posted February 15, 2020 09:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Can one shed 23 degrees of one system and fall into another one though ? Yeah, logically the explanation not quite fit in the head, but yeah..

Both Vedic and Western seem to have their own versions of this " "truth" " though, that as you grow older you tend to represent your D9 chart more, and particularly in Vedic it is said you represent your Moon chart(haven't done any "research" Beyond it... So far...far away in time...lol ) more.

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posted February 15, 2020 10:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Can one shed 23 degrees of one system and fall into another one though ? Yeah, logically the explanation not quite fit in the head, but yeah..

Both Vedic and Western seem to have their own versions of this " "truth" " though, that as you grow older you tend to represent your D9 chart more, and particularly in Vedic it is said you represent your Moon chart(haven't done any "research" Beyond it... So far...far away in time...lol ) more.

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Is the "23 degree shed" in response to my/moongirl's theory?

If so, no shedding is necessary. First off, this is purely abstract and speculative because we don't know if other "dimensions" exist. But if they do, the different "dimensions" could operate by/be held to entirely different "rules"/"laws". For example: On Earth(<- "dimension"), if you cut your "skin" you bleed - what if it's so that on/in SoulDimension when you knick yourself you... suddenly get launched into the air 100ft+? Different "dimensions" = different 'rules'.

posted February 17, 2020 04:50 PM            

quote:

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edit:somehow I didn't read your cusp degree/etc line. Mine is not a cusp as astro.com says it's it's 29.53.58.[/b]

Thanks for the reply. I can't pull up my chart atm, but 3-3.5hrs later iirc I'd have Scorpio Mars not Libra. Is this not a "cusp"?

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Can't really answer that unless looking at a precisely accurate chart.