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Author
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Topic: Fight or flight responses
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Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 20, 2020 09:47 PM
  
I know these responses are deeply ingrained in us as humans. Science says we are conditioned at an early age to respond to fear and anger in certain ways. Recently... And not so recently, I've had reactions that I couldn't even explain for example, an ex and I were play fighting and he moved over me and the way we were positioned, his arm went over my neck. Without even thinking, I threw a few jabs and blacked his eye. I felt so terrible and shocked at myself because I didn't even realize it, it was literally just a split second reaction to his arm pressing on my neck. When I'm faced with a fearful situation, I get angry and go full speed at whatever is the threat at that time, that's put me in some dangerous situations. It's not all of the time, like when someone sneaks up behind me, I'm talking about real situations of fear, like fighting and arguing with a stranger or a partner or someone trying to intimidate or threaten me. I'm not abusive, I just can not handke someone intimidating me at all. I'll fight back in a second. My childhood was full of violence, my parents were severe alcoholics and drug addicts so my sister and I were exposed to horrible sights which I'm pretty sure lends it's hand at my knee jerk reactions to go head first into fear (which in my case turns instantly to anger). We can see childhood conditioning in natal charts and my chart is full of the hell it was for me but, where can I see what causes my fear to turn to anger and how do I work on something like that? What aspects should I be focusing on to get in front of that instant reaction before I get myself into some real trouble... Again. My chart  IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 02:19 AM
 When you were born, were there any complications that posed a threat to the health/survival of you or/and your mother, D2a? IP: Logged |
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake Posts: 8317
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted February 21, 2020 09:33 AM
Chiron closely conj the Asc.Read Chiron-Mars and Chiron in Aries. As Aries/1st house & Mars are one archetype.Chiron here feels physical threat and aint about to be anybody's pushover. With Uranus opp Chiron,you may have spontaneous & violent responses to someone touching your body in a manner that you seem threatening. Even if playful I recall a scene with a friend when young. One guy in our group was "play fighting" with another. Things quickly escalated to a full on fight. I suspect the other guy was triggered by these "playful" antics. Ic in Leo is ruled by the Sun. And Sun opposite Mars and Saturn-Austere conditions as well as threatening environment one grew up under. Sun in 12th-Dad was at worst an escape artist or probably was not present. His influence in the home meant that there were little to no boundaries. And this includes seeing things that were not age appropriate. Moon in 6th-Mommy was at worst probably very critical. This stance she also turned inwards to herself and was very self critical. Probably even a masochist. There were self esteem issues for sure (Moon rules the 2nd house of Cancer). And this lack of innate self love ,meant that the early home was shaky. Pluto-moon conj suggests a Mom who was an extremist.For better or worse. Mars in Scorpio is a fighter and when in conjunction with Sat, the issues of the 6th are confronted with discipline and vigor. This means that you dont know how to "switch off" . This even in everyday life. You may resort to anger or wanting to control things a lot. #[edited] Interesting how Uranus is transiting your 12th now. A lot of these latent issues of unexpresssed anger towards your parents and early environmental conditions etc. Will need to be cleared out. The results of transits to the 12th suggests that old psychological patterns and/or triggers that are just under the threshold of expression, are stirred in order to be cleared away. The native may not know of the things in the 12th at all. And transits there will bring those things up-no doubt. There are often revelations about the self that accompany this transit.Because the 12th (suppression) and 1st house cusp(expression) are only separated by the point of individual Ascension(The Asc degree). IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 09:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
When you were born, were there any complications that posed a threat to the health/survival of you or/and your mother, D2a?
Not that I'm aware of. But my mother was in a bad car accident 4 years before I was born that left her with the mind of a young teenager, no impulse control. She was advised to never to have children because of her mental state.
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Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 09:44 AM
Thank you Aries for the breakdown. I'm really trying to get to the core of why I react this way, which you explained wonderfully, so that I can move past it and handle situations in a healthy way. IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 11:06 AM
quote:
my mother was in a bad car accident 4 years before I was born that left her with the mind of a young teenager, no impulse control. She was advised to never to have children because of her mental state.
If you are her first-born child ... might she have been advised to terminate the pregnancy, by those who felt she ought not to have children? IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
[QUOTE][b]my mother was in a bad car accident 4 years before I was born that left her with the mind of a young teenager, no impulse control. She was advised to never to have children because of her mental state.
If you are her first-born child ... might she have been advised to terminate the pregnancy, by those who felt she ought not to have children? [/B][/QUOTE]No, I was planned. She married my father two years after the wreck. The doctors that assessed her after the accident were the ones who told her and my grandparents that when she was discharged from the hospital. Being the 80's and in the south, my grandparents believed she would heal from her brain injury and a husband and baby would make her all better. I think the danger was just her herself. We (my younger and I) were eventually taken into foster care after my father left and our maternal grandmother recieved custody of us when I was 4 years old. IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 11:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
No, I was planned. She married my father two years after the wreck. The doctors that assessed her after the accident were the ones who told her and my grandparents that when she was discharged from the hospital. Being the 80's and in the south, my grandparents believed she would heal from her brain injury and a husband and baby would make her all better. I think the danger was just her herself. We (my younger and I) were eventually taken into foster care after my father left and our maternal grandmother recieved custody of us when I was 4 years old.
Perhaps your mother just needed an unusually high level of "gas 'n air". .... Have you ever reviewed the events created by progressions and transits to this natal Mercury-Moon+Pluto-Neptune triangle?
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hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 21, 2020 12:08 PM
Girl you go girl!I have a similar story to share but I was a child and my sister a teenager and she was messing around with me, she said something to me and I dont know what but all of a sudden I overpowered her and was on top of her, I become super strong and I was one skinny child lol...
She got me really mad, don't know what she said though. I have mars in leo in the 8H My husband has mars in scorpio conjunct uranus and also has an amazing fight or flight response during high stress emergency situations, don't poke the bear even though it looks so cute and sweet as you are in for a surprise. I think is your mars in scorpio IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 01:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Perhaps your mother just needed an unusually high level of "gas 'n air". .... Have you ever reviewed the events created by progressions and transits to this natal Mercury-Moon+Pluto-Neptune triangle?
I haven't until recently. Uranus passed over my Mercury not too long ago but surprisingly, I calmed down and "cleaned house". I cut my mother, and a few friends, out of my life as much as possible. Uranus is making its way through my 12H now and I feel it's digging up these issues and I'm becoming more aware of how they're all connected. That transit set off an internal chain of events that I have to work on and clear. IP: Logged |
Electro DGX
Moderator Posts: 2176
From: Mars
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted February 21, 2020 01:16 PM
I have Mars-ASC exactly conjunct in Scorpio, and I've noticed that my fight or flight response is triggered very easily. I've heard that often times that it can also be linked to trauma experienced in the past, but I've had to learn to adjust so that I'm not always on edge about things. It helps to be prepared, but I think it's linked to my dad always getting physical with me when I was younger. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 21, 2020 02:04 PM
The flight or fight response is connected to the 8th house and scorpio. Mars is action and war, survival. When these two meet is powerful.IP: Logged |
ULT12
Knowflake Posts: 109
From:
Registered: Jul 2019
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posted February 21, 2020 06:29 PM
IMO it's a Moon/Mommy/Your emotions issue. While what you've revealed does not indicate a genetic predisposition to having 'decreased impulse control' since your Mother had her accident well after you were born, since you were so, so young when she became dysfunctional, it's possible you picked up her dysfunction via emulation (you thought she was ok, 'that's how you're supposed to act', so ... ta-da).As Electro pointed out, Mars is the typical signifier for [re]action, aggression, defensiveness etc. Mars pertains to emotiveness in its own right, but Moon also. And I suspect your issues are Moon/general emotions-first. How to fix? Awareness, control, et cetera. Maybe you can get into meditation of whatever sort. Maybe even Yoga if you want to be more active. You have a tough chart emotions-wise, dear. Moon conj Pluto, Moon opp Merc, Merc in Aries, Merc opp Pluto, SN conj Uranus, ASC opp Uranus, Mars in Scorp, Mars conj Saturn (all that stuff except for the Mars stuff indicates an easily excitable emotional nature). Godspeed. IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 22, 2020 01:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ULT12:
IMO it's a Moon/Mommy/Your emotions issue. While what you've revealed does not indicate a genetic predisposition to having 'decreased impulse control' since your Mother had her accident well after you were born, since you were so, so young when she became dysfunctional, it's possible you picked up her dysfunction via emulation (you thought she was ok, 'that's how you're supposed to act', so ... ta-da).As Electro pointed out, Mars is the typical signifier for [re]action, aggression, defensiveness etc. Mars pertains to emotiveness in its own right, but Moon also. And I suspect your issues are Moon/general emotions-first. How to fix? Awareness, control, et cetera. Maybe you can get into meditation of whatever sort. Maybe even Yoga if you want to be more active. You have a tough chart emotions-wise, dear. Moon conj Pluto, Moon opp Merc, Merc in Aries, Merc opp Pluto, SN conj Uranus, ASC opp Uranus, Mars in Scorp, Mars conj Saturn (all that stuff except for the Mars stuff indicates an easily excitable emotional nature). Godspeed.
The mother's accident was 4 years before D2a was born.
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ULT12
Knowflake Posts: 109
From:
Registered: Jul 2019
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posted February 22, 2020 01:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
The mother's accident was 4 years [b]before D2a was born.[/B]
Oops. My mistake. Maybe she was genetically predisposed, then, which would add on top of the role model emulation theory. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 22, 2020 01:38 AM
Scorpio rules death LOL and our fight or flight literately gets activated bc in some level we feel our life is in danger and at risk (e.g. to die) so we either fight or run. My sister has moon in scorpio and I have mars in leo in the 8th and I overpowered her even though she was bigger so although the moon plays a role in this definitely bc the moon deals with feelings of safety and not feeling safe can trigger our fight or flight mechanism a plutonic mars is more likely to fight and confront than to flea. A plutonic mars will show you that she or he can outsmart you and show you they are not afraid of you and confront instead of hide, they will strategize and beat you this way or they will act in the moment and overpower you bc they will be pumped up with adrenaline. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 22, 2020 01:51 AM
Now if you have a history of trauma and you are noticing it impacts your daily functioning and dynamics with others then seek counseling, working through trauma is not something I recommend you do alone. There are tools you can learn through the therapeutic process to help you with triggers, flashbacks and emotional regulation and tools that can facilitate your healing process. Not to mention that talking about it and connecting with the emotions triggered by talking about it in a safe place is part of the healing process and healing sometimes hurts more than the wound.A good therapist will make sure you engage in interventions that ground you and help you get back into your window of tolerance before you leave session after processing heavy things so you leave feeling calm and safe. Good therapeutic approaches to treating trauma include sensorimotor psychotherapy and EMDR but a good psychotherapist with training and experience working with trauma can be a great start in helping you do some important foundational work before you try sensorimotor psychotherapy or EMDR. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 22, 2020 02:04 AM
I hope that helped and good luck  IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 22, 2020 02:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I haven't until recently. Uranus passed over my Mercury not too long ago but surprisingly, I calmed down and "cleaned house". I cut my mother, and a few friends, out of my life as much as possible. Uranus is making its way through my 12H now and I feel it's digging up these issues and I'm becoming more aware of how they're all connected. That transit set off an internal chain of events that I have to work on and clear.
"I calmed down" (Moon in Libra) ... "cleaned house" (6th) ... "cut mother/others out of my life" (Pluto/Moon sextile Neptune) ------ and, thus, actively took control of my conscious self/ego [Mercury in Aries/12th house of hidden enemies (within the subconscious mind)]. My gut feeling* is that something life-threatening did happen as you were being delivered - and it (or its resolution) threatened the supply of oxygen to you/the baby. But, the situation had "calmed down" by the time of the actual delivery - perhaps because your mother had been sedated, and other (non-essential) personnel had left the room "to give everyone some space to breathe". If my guess is correct though, you would need regression hypnotherapy to confirm it. ... However, in the meantime, you might find it enlightening to monitor what happens whenever transit Moon and Mars briefly activate your natal Mercury-Moon/Pluto-Neptune configuration. [ * One wonders how someone with the mind of a teenage girl would react to/cope with the physical pains (and emotional fears) involved in giving birth to a baby.]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ For information ... I also have a lifelong history of knee-jerk reaction when my ego/conscious-self perceives a threat to its"survival". And was unaware that anything unusual had happened at my birth until - around age 40 - my astrological studies prompted me to query this with my mother. ... Her matter-of-fact reply was "well, you had the birth cord wrapped around your neck - and would have died if the mid-wife had not noticed it; told me to stop pushing and spent the next hour sorting it out. So, when you finally arrived, you were blue - and the mid-wife had to smack you for quite some time before you cried. ... But, in those days, that was not unusual." IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 123398
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 26, 2020 07:01 PM
Bump!IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 27, 2020 11:14 AM
Sorry I've been away for a while, we got the flu and it literally put me on my butt for over a week.Graham, I talked to my mom and she said that her uterus fell backwards when she was pregnant with me and had to be on bed rest until I was born or risk losing me. She said she even had a little bell to call people, she thought that was hilarious. Hypatia, I've been to my fair shair of therapy over the years and it did help out a lot. I don't know that it would help in this case. I think we're predisposed to either fight or run depending on what we were exposed to in childhood. I'm definitely going to be checking any transits activating my Merc, moon, Pluto, Neptune aspect now too! IP: Logged |
Graham
Knowflake Posts: 851
From:
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted February 27, 2020 12:38 PM
quote:
Graham, I talked to my mom and she said that her uterus fell backwards when she was pregnant with me and had to be on bed rest until I was born or risk losing me. She said she even had a little bell to call people, she thought that was hilarious.
This is the incident that (imo) will be the root cause of your knee-jerk reaction to "life-threatening" situations. ... And I doubt that therapy can help/be effective - as (like my strangled-at-birth self) the reaction is that of a newborn child, who (by definition) is incapable of acting rationally at that time (because it is a skill learned in the years after birth). However ... if you can now imagine how your about-to-be-born self felt at the time (with her life threatened, and her mother/protector appearing to perceive it as hilarious), that increased self-awareness will result in the knee-jerk reaction decreasing in severity. ... Then, if you tell others what you believe to be the cause of your "going into survival mode", their increased awareness will make it less likely that they will unintentionally cause you to feel threatened in the future. (And, when it does happen, no-one will be left wondering why you "over-reacted" - or upset by you having done so.) IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 12882
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted February 27, 2020 01:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
Sorry I've been away for a while, we got the flu and it literally put me on my butt for over a week.Graham, I talked to my mom and she said that her uterus fell backwards when she was pregnant with me and had to be on bed rest until I was born or risk losing me. She said she even had a little bell to call people, she thought that was hilarious. Hypatia, I've been to my fair shair of therapy over the years and it did help out a lot. I don't know that it would help in this case. I think we're predisposed to either fight or run depending on what we were exposed to in childhood. I'm definitely going to be checking any transits activating my Merc, moon, Pluto, Neptune aspect now too!
I agree we are predisposed to either fight or run and our upbringing or early experiences can shape this but its very much a biological drive, someone with mars in pisces will run, hide and blend in while someone with mars in scorpio or aries or leo will confront and fight but if someone has unresolved trauma they become HYPER-VIGILANT and their fight or flight mechanism activates too easily and when is not necessary, this is what is called PTSD. When someone has PTSD their fight or flight gets overly activated easily and frequently bc they live more in a hyper-vigilant state instead of in their window of tolerance were people are calm and make decisions from a calm place, I am not saying that is your case, I don't know you but how you worded your OP you asked for help so naturally if this is a trauma response therapy would be a good option. You may have done therapy in the past but there are many approaches to treatment and healing trauma is a multilayered process that can take decades so people often go to therapy multiple times throughout their life and try different types of treatments and each time they make more progress with their healing.
IP: Logged |
teasel
Knowflake Posts: 13632
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 27, 2020 05:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I agree we are predisposed to either fight or run and our upbringing or early experiences can shape this but its very much a biological drive, someone with mars in pisces will run, hide and blend in while someone with mars in scorpio or aries or leo will confront and fight but if someone has unresolved trauma they become HYPER-VIGILANT and their fight or flight mechanism activates too easily and when is not necessary, this is what is called PTSD. When someone has PTSD their fight or flight gets overly activated easily and frequently bc they live more in a hyper-vigilant state instead of in their window of tolerance were people are calm and make decisions from a calm place, I am not saying that is your case, I don't know you but how you worded your OP you asked for help so naturally if this is a trauma response therapy would be a good option. You may have done therapy in the past but there are many approaches to treatment and healing trauma is a multilayered process that can take decades so people often go to therapy multiple times throughout their life and try different types of treatments and each time they make more progress with their healing.
Hyper-vigilance has been on my mind for the last few days, because I live like this. It was mentioned in a book that I'm reading, and I wish that more people understood it. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 750
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted February 27, 2020 09:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I agree we are predisposed to either fight or run and our upbringing or early experiences can shape this but its very much a biological drive, someone with mars in pisces will run, hide and blend in while someone with mars in scorpio or aries or leo will confront and fight but if someone has unresolved trauma they become HYPER-VIGILANT and their fight or flight mechanism activates too easily and when is not necessary, this is what is called PTSD. When someone has PTSD their fight or flight gets overly activated easily and frequently bc they live more in a hyper-vigilant state instead of in their window of tolerance were people are calm and make decisions from a calm place, I am not saying that is your case, I don't know you but how you worded your OP you asked for help so naturally if this is a trauma response therapy would be a good option. You may have done therapy in the past but there are many approaches to treatment and healing trauma is a multilayered process that can take decades so people often go to therapy multiple times throughout their life and try different types of treatments and each time they make more progress with their healing.
I was in therapy for ptsd, and other diagnosis, and it did help. I was way worse in my younger years and over reacting was my middle name. Since finding astrology and digging into my own chart, it's helped a lot in my understanding myself on a much deeper and much needed level. That's why I frequently turn to this board. This is my therapy now ❤️ IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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